74 replies to this topic

[Kyle Polulak]

Greetings MechWarriors!

Please provide us with your likes, dislikes, and feedback on these Mechs:

• SMN-Prime
  
• SMN-B
  
• SMN-D

[Garrond]

All the Summoners are very limited when it comes to Hardpoints. So you want to create builds with few weapons that hurt. But every time I come up with something nasty, there are always those two tons missing. And then I try to free up some tonnage and end up being really annoyed by those fixed jumpjets you are not allowed to remove.

I'm fine with the few hardpoints this chassi offers, but give us at least the option to take out some of the JJs or DHS! Maybe limit it to one removable JJ per leg or something. This way the equipment would still be in accordance to lore.

Example:
- The Prime is a bit of everything but lacks the power of endurance. With only three weapons this mech should definately have more ammo and maybe a targeting computer. Two more tons would be perfect.
- The SMN-D is just like... meh. I have a Muromets with twin LLas and twin UAC5. Even though the Hardpoints are there and the lasers are a ton lighter each, I'm not able to copy this build since I can't add enough ammo. The standard loadout is... underwhelming compared to the MadCat.
- The SMN-B could probably be a really good LRM-Boat if you change one arm to the D-Variant for Tag and a CLPulse for self-defence and... hmm. Turns out my CPLT-C1 is by far the better chassi for this. Has more Ammo and a BAP. A XL280 with 2 JJs is good enough. So should i build a brawler using SRMs? Hmm, again a Catapult is the better option since the CPLT-A1 offers two more hardpoints for SRMs. No Splat-Summoner. The default loadout is rather weak again.

Edited by Garrond, 18 June 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Very limiting, I keep gravitating towards D arms/D side torsos no matter which core. Jump jets are supposed to be fixed equipment but further exacerbate the gulf in pod space between the Summoner and the same speed Timberwolf. Better torso turn rate and acell/decell might help make it a superior 'finesse' fighter but in general it feels slothy considering it's low armament options.

[CCC Dober]

It's currently very limited compared to the Timberwolf. Part of me wants to think that the chosen variants are to blame for this, but as the other gentleman above mentioned already, the lack of free tonnage plays a big part. Another one is gimped weapon damage.

One of its main weapons, the ER PPC deals 10 instead of 15 damage. It would feel like a step in the right direction to bring the damage back to 15 and increase reload time to compensate. It's not like you can alpha more than 3 of them without shutting down or hitting override.

Other than that, I'm entertaining the hope that new variants will give us more valid configs. A general option to demount Jump Jets would not be such a bad idea either. More free weight to play with would give this and other Clan Mechs more room to breathe (which is definitely needed when it comes to the Summoner).

[Summon3r]

absolutely love this mech, tho as said above it is extremely limited and when in comp drops there is no place for it what so ever when you have the timberwolf that can mount JJ's. i have no idea how to make it more viable.

i can say tho that the D models high ballistic mounts come in handy.

[Conreg]

I'll keep working at this chassis until I find somehting that fits... but as others have stated, it is limited in options.

A few tons of wiggle room would make a big difference.

Should have bought the T-Wolf.

[Felio]

CCC Dober, on 18 June 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

It's currently very limited compared to the Timberwolf.

Yeah, I did a comparison because I really wanted to find a reason to use my Summoners:

Summoner:
Free slots: 35
Free tons: 20.69
Jump jets: 5
Armor: 434
Speed: 81 kph

Timber Wolf:
Free slots: 33
Free tons: 27.46
Jump jets: 4
Armor: 462
Speed: 81 kph

Also, the Summoner can't use lower arm actuators at all, and the Twolf can. That's a big deal to me.

They don't have the same hard points or fixed slots, obviously, but all Clan mechs have access to multiples all three types.

[101011]

Felio, on 18 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

They don't have the same hard points or fixed slots, obviously, but all Clan mechs have access to multiples all three types.

Not true. The Nova has no missile slots. The Summoner's hardpoints in general just really suffer from the lack of inflation. If you want more than a one or two weapons of any type, you have to give up another complete weapon group.

[Tremendous Upside]

Limited number of hardpoints and space overall. Limited available tonnage as well... But still a 100% awesome mech. 4ERMLs + UAC20 = the most fun I've had in this game in a while. Mech takes damage extremely well and the UAC20 double tap is brutal. I don't think you can stuff a UAC20 into a torso slot on the Timberwolf - so I'm glad this is the heavy I ponied up for.

[Lightfoot]

JJets take up too much payload space. If you take a weapon there is no room for ammo unless you drop other weapons. Even the stock versions could never complete a mission/match without the weapons running dry after a few minutes. No armor to boot.

[Almeras]

Suffers with low free tonnage and lack of slots. You need big guns for this to work but the tonnage just isn't there. I run a pretty good build but I aggressively optimised its load out and in all honestly the madcat could do it better and no compromises its only personal dislike of the madcat that stops me.

Laxing JJs restriction would allow that critical few tons to give it enough ammo and heat sinks to work. Also giving it mediums perks (movement type, turning speed) would help to give it that intend fast harasser feel.

The thor suffers the most from table top to MWO mechlab translation. Half armour, no endo, small amount of slots, ghost heat of high damage low ton weapons and lots of jump jets

[Ultimax]

The hardpoints/omni pods are exceptionally limited.

Being locked into a 350xl Engine, mandatory heatsinks & mandatory Jump Jets means there is not much tonnage left over to actually carry the firepower of a true heavy mech (even with the lighter clan weaponry) - very few IS heavies that can run 325+ sized Engines will actually run one that large because it isn't worth the sacrifice of firepower.

It comes locked with Ferro Fibrous, which is a terrible upgrade that grants the most minimal of tonnage back is an upgrade that players are regularly told not to take in favor of Endo. I understand this comes from table/top lore, but there are times when it's necessary to make changes for the sake of gameplay.

So either allow clan mechs to remove FF / add Endo, or improve Ferro Fibrous so it is an viable option for both clan and IS mechs.



As it stands now, there is no real reason to use this over the Timber Wolf, because the Timber wolf gets a tiny bit more tonnage and the omni pods it has have more variety.

[Almeras]

maybe if PGI don't wish to break the mechlab rules they can put in a hero Thor with no JJs in the legs

Which means you can borrow his legs to free tonnage on the other variants?

[Svidro]

Welcome to the shallow end of the purchasable package pool

[RustyBolts]

What everyone else is saying. Your options are so limited with this mech that it is hard to find a role since other mech can do it better. It needs more free tonnage to allow for some variance.

[tulip]

Just to chime in, the people above me are right.

It just doesn't have enough tonnage for guns and ammo, giving it endo-steel would break stock builds etc so though i'd prefer that I'd recommend and request that instead we be allowed to remove the JumpJets and engine mounted heatsinks please.

[Snowcrow]

I'm having fun with an UAC/20 and an CERPPC, but the lack of endo steel really sucks. The timber wolf is just better than the summoner in every way.

[Vanguard836]

While it's quite the enjoyable and challenging mech to use, it is pretty limited in what you can do to bring it to comparable levels of other heavy mechs of it's weight. Since it does have somewhat low armor for a heavy mech, removing armor to fit in more ammo or weapons comes at a heavy cost. Using several smaller weapons like ER LL and mediums vs ballistics (excluding mgs) still leaves it with lower armor and firepower. Ammo is also an issue for anything remotely close to stock builds.

This leave us with either a compromise of lower armor with medium-low firepower, when compared to other heavy mechs, or sacrificing further in the thin available tonnage that we have with this chassis.

Since we can't play with the traditional IS methods of weight saving, and I wouldn't suggest to make an exception to the rules with this mech, I suggest perhaps a good toughness quirk for the internal structure and a perhaps a smaller one for the armor of the mech.

Increasing it's mobility could via torso twist speed and turn rate could also improve it's survivability.

Firepower could be tweaked with an extra damage quirk though I'm not fond of the idea of a "magical" damage increase, or a bigger boost of the cooldown reduction on the prime arms as well as cooldown reduction on the other arms and torsos.

Edited by Vanguard836, 20 June 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Almeras]

when 3x4 comes in the Thor will be look down upon (clan thunderbolt?). I think the fixed JJs need to be looked at across the board for clans because clearly they loose out to the optional clan JJs mechs.

JJ as they are have marked diminishing returns for having more than 1 its a penalty that some clan mechs get around while others can't.

[Lightfoot]

I can't make anything with the Summoners that I would take to a match. The Timberwolf does it all better and gets way more hardpoints and does not force five tons (5) of jump-jets on you. Considering the forcing of five tons (5) of jump-jets on the player this mech should come with at least 12 weapon slots and at least 6 of those should be Energy.

I think you rushed the Summoner out the door and did not do enough QA testing. You should at least add more weapon slots so players can tinker something together that is similar to other mechs in it's weight class.