151 replies to this topic

[blackicmenace]

Today I was rolling in my Warhawk B LRM boat with Tag and 2 x LRM 20s and 2x LRM 15s and came across 2 kit fox's or adders??.. not sure which one it is with the ecm and 3 ams and not a single missile made it to the targets.

Edited by blackicmenace, 18 June 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Sephlock, on 18 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Also, lets add more ghost heat to IS pulse lasers. That's all they need.

No. Oh, wait! You're not actually debating the validity of points, you're avoiding the validity of the point by making a sarcastic comment!

Don't be a twit. Radar Deprivation is OPed, needs nerfed. In fact it's a terrible idea overall.

Clan LRMs though need the same speed as IS LRMs. Lighter, mechs carry more, offset by ripple-fire - which, however, makes them more prone to focus on CT than IS mechs in a bunch. Make speed the same, offsets their advantage via AMS.

[cSand]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Don't be a twit. Radar Deprivation is OPed, needs nerfed. In fact it's a terrible idea overall.

Or does it suddenly make a tag/narc scout much more valuable?

Yea. No more sitting on the couch at the edge of the map lobbing volleys. People actually have to move about and play now instead of playing "1200 damage turret"

Sad times, sad times indeed for the lazy

Edited by cSand, 18 June 2014 - 03:19 PM.

[Sephlock]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

No. Oh, wait! You're not actually debating the validity of points, you're avoiding the validity of the point by making a sarcastic comment!

Don't be a twit. Radar Deprivation is OPed, needs nerfed. In fact it's a terrible idea overall.

Clan LRMs though need the same speed as IS LRMs. Lighter, mechs carry more, offset by ripple-fire - which, however, makes them more prone to focus on CT than IS mechs in a bunch. Make speed the same, offsets their advantage via AMS.

Nope, Clan LRMs need faster lock on speeds and that's it.

Also, no minimum range.

[MischiefSC]

cSand, on 18 June 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Or does it suddenly make a tag/narc scout much more valuable?

Yea. No more sitting on the couch at the edge of the map lobbing volleys. People actually have to move about and play now instead of playing "1200 damage turret"

Sad times, sad times indeed for the lazy

Narc is still OP'ed on several maps. Make it lighter, give it more shots per ton, but make the NARC fall off after 30 pts of damage to the target or something similar.

Clan LRMs with a decent spotter are stupidly destructive. I can put 60 tubes, easily, on a 75 ton Timber Wolf.

Slower, same lockon time. This balances them with IS LRMs. Clan LRMs all but seek the CT, traveling in a tight waterfall of destruction.

[Shaio]

O my Gerd Narc Beacons! I thought they where silly before but now it's like the "NARC OF DOOOMMM!!!" then watch the missile lock draw flight after flight of LRMs. The only effective counter is the double bubble of ECM and that is rare.

My Jenner K and Narc Beacon is pure MetaBuse ™.

[Sean von Steinike]

Silverlance, on 18 June 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I know I'm not the only one. But the amount of LRMs before Clan Mechs was bad. Now it's three times as bad. And something needs to be done to quell the amount of mechs allowed into a match that can boat LRM systems and 2-3k+ rounds of ammo.

So...you are implying LRMs are a great weapon?

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Narc is still OP'ed on several maps. Make it lighter, give it more shots per ton, but make the NARC fall off after 30 pts of damage to the target or something similar.

While I am somewhat annoyed @ the trolling NARC users, I laughed back in the days where NARC fell off when LRM boats "sneezed" on the NARCed target... because they were outright terrible then.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 June 2014 - 04:18 PM.

[Abivard]

Strangely I have seen an almost complete absence of LRM's since the patch.

I have found them to be rendered almost totally useless unless you encounter very new players.

[Turboferret]

If you have a problem with LRMs maybe you should get a ECM, 3xAMS, AMS range, AMS overload, radar deprivation Kitfox.

[Lyoto Machida]

Azrael1911, on 18 June 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

If you have a problem with LRMs maybe you should get a ECM, 3xAMS, AMS range, AMS overload, radar deprivation Kitfox.

Yeah, but then what would he have to complain about then? Poptarts? Arty strikes? Those are pretty rare now.

Maybe brawlers, I'm guessing???

[MischiefSC]

Azrael1911, on 18 June 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

If you have a problem with LRMs maybe you should get a ECM, 3xAMS, AMS range, AMS overload, radar deprivation Kitfox.

This sort of argument (not blaming you, for all I know you're being sarcastic) has always been a bad one. 'I don't a problem with poptarts in my Dragon Slayer with PPCs and AC5s! If you had one you wouldn't either, so the meta is fine!'

One mech set up to exploit a broken mechanic doesn't make the mechanic not broken.

[Lyoto Machida]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

This sort of argument (not blaming you, for all I know you're being sarcastic) has always been a bad one. 'I don't a problem with poptarts in my Dragon Slayer with PPCs and AC5s! If you had one you wouldn't either, so the meta is fine!'

One mech set up to exploit a broken mechanic doesn't make the mechanic not broken.

The mechanic is what it is...it's what PGI determined the ruleset to be. The players don't decide how the game works.

In real life, I train and watch combat sports (for fun, not professionally). Should a boxer that enters a Muay Thai or kickboxing fight complain that he's getting kicked in the legs or head too much? Or should he have learned to defend kicks ahead of time, knowing full well what the ruleset was going to be when he signed the contract to fight?

[MischiefSC]

Lyoto Machida, on 18 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

The mechanic is what it is...it's what PGI determined the ruleset to be. The players don't decide how the game works.

In real life, I train and watch combat sports (for fun, not professionally). Should a boxer that enters a Muay Thai or kickboxing fight complain that he's getting kicked in the legs or head too much? Or should he have learned to defend kicks ahead of time, knowing full well what the ruleset was going to be when he signed the contract to fight?

That's not an accurate analogy.

Suppose your favorite sport allows, say, bringing a gun in and shooting your opponent. It's not hard to tell that the problem isn't not bringing the best gun - it's that allowing people to shoot their opponent is an unbalanced rule.

So you fix the rules, you don't say the solution is for everyone to abuse a broken mechanic.

[Lyoto Machida]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

That's not an accurate analogy.

Suppose your favorite sport allows, say, bringing a gun in and shooting your opponent. It's not hard to tell that the problem isn't not bringing the best gun - it's that allowing people to shoot their opponent is an unbalanced rule.

So you fix the rules, you don't say the solution is for everyone to abuse a broken mechanic.

Sure, fix the rules. I'm all for that...but guess what? That fix hasn't happened yet.

So the boxer (guy that can't defend against LRMs) better learn to defend against kicks (LRMs) by whatever he has at his disposal, whether it's his arms/legs (AMS/ECM/Radar Deprivation) or footwork (using cover/movement).

Also, I don't see how the 3xAMS Kit Fox is using a broken mechanic (like the DS in your example). Even without the ECM, 3x AMS and Radar Deprivation would keep him pretty covered from missiles.

[MischiefSC]

Lyoto Machida, on 18 June 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Sure, fix the rules. I'm all for that...but guess what? That fix hasn't happened yet.

So the boxer (guy that can't defend against LRMs) better learn to defend against kicks (LRMs) by whatever he has at his disposal, whether it's his arms/legs (AMS/ECM/Radar Deprivation) or footwork (using cover/movement).

Also, I don't see how the 3xAMS Kit Fox is using a broken mechanic (like the DS in your example). Even without the ECM, 3x AMS and Radar Deprivation would keep him pretty covered from missiles.

The Kit Fox isn't broken. In fact it's an awesome mech and concept. The idea that you need something like that to offset the LRM mechanic is the issue. LRMs, by having indirect fire, are balanced to a different concept than other weapons. They need hard-counters and other solutions to dealing with them. Clan LRMs are too fast - they need slowed down a bit. Not much, just a bit. They seek the CT more than IS LRMs do and have a better hit-rate (by being more focused on target). I agree, people need to mount AMS and it needs to be absolutely worth it. You shouldn't be all but required to mount a certain module in addition to that or need to take a 2xAMS mech just to deal with a particular weapon. While I don't think that's the case currently, I do think Clan LRMs are a bit OPed. They need a little scaling back, that's all. So does the module for that matter.

[Turboferret]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

This sort of argument (not blaming you, for all I know you're being sarcastic) has always been a bad one. 'I don't a problem with poptarts in my Dragon Slayer with PPCs and AC5s! If you had one you wouldn't either, so the meta is fine!'

One mech set up to exploit a broken mechanic doesn't make the mechanic not broken.

The thing about the super-support Fox is that if you have ONE, your entire TEAM is for all purposes immune to LRMs. One kit fox with 3xAMS + both modules can single handily stop a CLRM200 wave. I say this from experience.

The 3xAMS, AMS overload, AMS range, UAV, 1xERLL, TAG, NARC, BAP Fox is pretty much the ultimate support mech. (S' what I run.)

[Lyoto Machida]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

The Kit Fox isn't broken. In fact it's an awesome mech and concept. The idea that you need something like that to offset the LRM mechanic is the issue. LRMs, by having indirect fire, are balanced to a different concept than other weapons. They need hard-counters and other solutions to dealing with them. Clan LRMs are too fast - they need slowed down a bit. Not much, just a bit. They seek the CT more than IS LRMs do and have a better hit-rate (by being more focused on target). I agree, people need to mount AMS and it needs to be absolutely worth it. You shouldn't be all but required to mount a certain module in addition to that or need to take a 2xAMS mech just to deal with a particular weapon. While I don't think that's the case currently, I do think Clan LRMs are a bit OPed. They need a little scaling back, that's all. So does the module for that matter.

That's interesting because I feel that the Clan LRMs don't have the same "punch" that IS LRMs do (and I've used a ton of IS LRMs). Maybe it's because of the streaming firing pattern or something else, but that's just my gut feeling.

Also, you don't need an ECM Kit Fox to avoid LRMs. I still don't carry AMS but I may start doing so because of the streaming Clan LRMs. Good use of cover still works better than AMS for the most part.

Btw, your sport/gun analogy doesn't really apply to this game...unless you consider poptarts to be so superior over other playstyles that it equates to a gunman shooting an unarmed adversary.

[Zolaz]

Hey, you are in luck. PGI just put out a module for you with the clans. It is called radar deprivation and removes locks if the enemy loses line of sight on you. You are welcome.

[Screech]

Not sure what OP is talking about. Been running Nova so far and most of the time I don't even have the option to equip AMS and has not been issue. Only time you even notice LRM is when you are on Caustic with no ECM and that's more the maps issue then anything else.