335 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

focuspark, on 21 July 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Honestly, who the hell cares? I don't. There no economy to speak of in the game at all. All this does is drive down the grind and potentially steal revenue from PGI/IGP. Why do you seem to care so much? O.o

CW is the beginning of an economy, hopefully, so we should all care.

[focuspark]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Does not sound very believable. If i understand correctly your idea our pilots should be dimensional travelers able to jump from an universe to another one in seconds, or we should be universe gods able to choose one out of tens of slightly different multiverses ..

It sounds a bit twisted, at least..

Got a different version:

MWO is clearly an adaptation of the F2P model to the BattleTech universe (or maybe i should say the opposite). A basic pillar of this model is buying more in-game items with the currency earned by playing or bought with real world money. Thus, a MechWarrior AKA player is expected to collect more and more 'Mechs, even if this would be absurd in the lore, as even Alexander Kerensky did not have 2 regiments of BattleMechs in his own 'Mechbay.

Why not? I can drop on a planet, fight, and be dropping on another planet hundreds of light years away in less than 15 minutes. None of it makes sense. If we wanted logic, we wouldn't have giant bipedal tanks - we'd have... tanks!

Cimarb, on 21 July 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

CW is the beginning of an economy, hopefully, so we should all care.

I don't believe it. Given the track record of MWO (and I'm one of their biggest supporters), I just plain do not believe it.

They've done no build up to an economy, they've no experience, and no method by which to source or sink capital. An ever increasing pile of c-bills is not an economy.

[Cimarb]

focuspark, on 21 July 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

I don't believe it. Given the track record of MWO (and I'm one of their biggest supporters), I just plain do not believe it.

They've done no build up to an economy, they've no experience, and no method by which to source or sink capital. An ever increasing pile of c-bills is not an economy.

They have done nothing before now to build up units either, yet that is the first CW module. An ability to form a premade group is not a unit either, according to your logic.

A unit is built upon a group of people, and then solidified with a "unit" system in game.
An economy is built upon a pile of cbills, and then solidified with a "market" system in game.

[Heffay]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Does not sound very believable. If i understand correctly your idea our pilots should be dimensional travelers able to jump from an universe to another one in seconds, or we should be universe gods able to choose one out of tens of slightly different multiverses ..

It sounds a bit twisted, at least..

No. For each mech you have, there is a unique universe where you pilot that mech. You don't have to do interdimensional travel at all. You exist in all dimensions; it's just that some of the details are a bit different.

[Cimarb]

Heffay, on 21 July 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

No. For each mech you have, there is a unique universe where you pilot that mech. You don't have to do interdimensional travel at all. You exist in all dimensions; it's just that some of the details are a bit different.

None of the methods to address the inconsistency is ideal, but I like Cycloner's more than your "multiverse omnipresence" approach.

While I dislike that we each have HUGE stockpiles of battlemechs in an age where a single Locust is considered irreplaceable to the owner AND his family, I prefer that immensely to each of us being some sort of interdimensional being.

(edit for poor phrasing)

Edited by Cimarb, 21 July 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Heffay]

Cimarb, on 21 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

None of the methods to address the inconsistency is ideal, but I like Cycloner's more than your "multiverse omnipresence" approach.

While I dislike that we each have HUGE stockpiles of battlemechs in an age where a single Locust is considered irreplaceable to the owner AND his family, I prefer that immensely to each of us being some sort of interdimensional being.

(edit for poor phrasing)

Not interdimensional. Multi-verse. There is a *huge* difference between the two concepts.

And nobody is stopping you from playing exactly the way you want. If you think you should only have access to one mech, sell all the rest that you own and play that way. It is not PGI's job to create the environment necessary for you to roll play in. They are responsible for creating a game that is fun to play for as large of a population as possible. Any RP elements beyond that are your responsibility to craft.

And if you see things that don't make sense in your particular scenario, it is *your* responsibility to come up with an RP solution to them.

[CyclonerM]

Cimarb, on 21 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

None of the methods to address the inconsistency is ideal, but I like Cycloner's more than your "multiverse omnipresence" approach.

While I dislike that we each have HUGE stockpiles of battlemechs in an age where a single Locust is considered irreplaceable to the owner AND his family, I prefer that immensely to each of us being some sort of interdimensional being.

Indeed.

My ideal approach would be something more similar to MW:LL than MWO, but this is not the place for it.

Honestly, i have some dubts about the economy CW will bring, too. I would rather see something more deep like Star Citizen's economy, even if simplified as MWO lacks activities different from combat.
Just having prices fluctuate is not quite enough IMHO. Thousand of players have stockpiled tons of C-Bills, weapons and equipment so higher prices do not influence their economy at all.

Ideas for the economy?

-Equipment salvage

-Repair and ream

-Jump fees to rent a jumpship

-Possibility to buy a jumpship for a very high price in exchange for more movement flexibility and no jump fees , not destroyable (neither Houses nor Clans want to waste Jumpships, though the Clans can actually replace them)

-Unit assets maintenance (Dropships, bases, base garrisons, support staff), different for merc units and House/Clan units

-Fluctuations of rewards for mercenary contracts (a world attacked by a Clan force would prompt the ruling House to offer a rich contract to bolster its defences, while a Periphery-FWL border planet would have many less opportunities for mercs, mostly bandits that could be represented by lone wolves).

-For House players, pay should be based on rank, which is influented by Loyalty Points, which are influenced by combat performance; for Clan players, a similar Honor-based system should reward victories against a supposed stronger opponent with higher rewards (hmm, never been a fan of c-bills for Clansmen! What would it take to change the name of the currency and change some prices?).

-Some merc units' assets should be destroyable (most notably DropShips) that represent a decent loss of money

-A high amount of worlds lost by a faction should have disadvantages for that faction' players. Reduced availability of items, less pay for regulars (but more for mercs maybe?).

Besides, a merc unit that gets a very high amount of loyalty points with a House should get the opportunity of becoming part of that House' regular army, like McCarron's Armored Cavalry (not sure how many players would actually do it, unless it provides decent advantages or would fit well with their unit's background, a situation i have often seen).

Heffay, on 21 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Not interdimensional. Multi-verse. There is a *huge* difference between the two concepts.

And nobody is stopping you from playing exactly the way you want. If you think you should only have access to one mech, sell all the rest that you own and play that way. It is not PGI's job to create the environment necessary for you to roll play in. They are responsible for creating a game that is fun to play for as large of a population as possible. Any RP elements beyond that are your responsibility to craft.

And if you see things that don't make sense in your particular scenario, it is *your* responsibility to come up with an RP solution to them.

Actually, PGI's job is also to create a believable representation of the BT universe in which you can play. Otherwise, it is just World of 'Mechs.

Edited by CyclonerM, 21 July 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Cimarb]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Indeed.

My ideal approach would be something more similar to MW:LL than MWO, but this is not the place for it.

Honestly, i have some dubts about the economy CW will bring, too. I would rather see something more deep like Star Citizen's economy, even if simplified as MWO lacks activities different from combat.

Just having prices fluctuate is not quite enough IMHO. Thousand of players have stockpiled tons of C-Bills, weapons and equipment so higher prices do not influence their economy at all.

Ideas for the economy?

-Equipment salvage

-Repair and ream

-Jump fees to rent a jumpship

-Possibility to buy a jumpship for a very high price in exchange for more movement flexibility and no jump fees , not destroyable (neither Houses nor Clans want to waste Jumpships, though the Clans can actually replace them)

-Unit assets maintenance (Dropships, bases, base garrisons, support staff), different for merc units and House/Clan units

-Fluctuations of rewards for mercenary contracts (a world attacked by a Clan force would prompt the ruling House to offer a rich contract to bolster its defences, while a Periphery-FWL border planet would have many less opportunities for mercs, mostly bandits that could be represented by lone wolves).

-For House players, pay should be based on rank, which is influented by Loyalty Points, which are influenced by combat performance; for Clan players, a similar Honor-based system should reward victories against a supposed stronger opponent with higher rewards (hmm, never been a fan of c-bills for Clansmen! What would it take to change the name of the currency and change some prices?).

-Some merc units' assets should be destroyable (most notably DropShips) that represent a decent loss of money

-A high amount of worlds lost by a faction should have disadvantages for that faction' players. Reduced availability of items, less pay for regulars (but more for mercs maybe?).

Besides, a merc unit that gets a very high amount of loyalty points with a House should get the opportunity of becoming part of that House' regular army, like McCarron's Armored Cavalry (not sure how many players would actually do it, unless it provides decent advantages or would fit well with their unit's background, a situation i have often seen).



Actually, PGI's job is also to create a believable representation of the BT universe in which you can play. Otherwise, it is just World of 'Mechs.

Completely agree, on all points.

[Artur Valour]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Indeed.

My ideal approach would be something more similar to MW:LL than MWO, but this is not the place for it.

Honestly, i have some dubts about the economy CW will bring, too. I would rather see something more deep like Star Citizen's economy, even if simplified as MWO lacks activities different from combat.
Just having prices fluctuate is not quite enough IMHO. Thousand of players have stockpiled tons of C-Bills, weapons and equipment so higher prices do not influence their economy at all.

Ideas for the economy?

-Equipment salvage

-Repair and ream

-Jump fees to rent a jumpship

-Possibility to buy a jumpship for a very high price in exchange for more movement flexibility and no jump fees , not destroyable (neither Houses nor Clans want to waste Jumpships, though the Clans can actually replace them)

-Unit assets maintenance (Dropships, bases, base garrisons, support staff), different for merc units and House/Clan units

-Fluctuations of rewards for mercenary contracts (a world attacked by a Clan force would prompt the ruling House to offer a rich contract to bolster its defences, while a Periphery-FWL border planet would have many less opportunities for mercs, mostly bandits that could be represented by lone wolves).

-For House players, pay should be based on rank, which is influented by Loyalty Points, which are influenced by combat performance; for Clan players, a similar Honor-based system should reward victories against a supposed stronger opponent with higher rewards (hmm, never been a fan of c-bills for Clansmen! What would it take to change the name of the currency and change some prices?).

-Some merc units' assets should be destroyable (most notably DropShips) that represent a decent loss of money

-A high amount of worlds lost by a faction should have disadvantages for that faction' players. Reduced availability of items, less pay for regulars (but more for mercs maybe?).

Besides, a merc unit that gets a very high amount of loyalty points with a House should get the opportunity of becoming part of that House' regular army, like McCarron's Armored Cavalry (not sure how many players would actually do it, unless it provides decent advantages or would fit well with their unit's background, a situation i have often seen).



Actually, PGI's job is also to create a believable representation of the BT universe in which you can play. Otherwise, it is just World of 'Mechs.

This is how I imagine it too... well put!

[Clownwarlord]

BLOOD WOLF, on 21 July 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

why do you wonder if they will get answered?

Its not that I wonder if they will get answered its more to when they will get answered. If it isn't till launch of the unit module then it will push back a lot of groups from forming up right away.

I also have another question:
- What are the requirements to form a unit?

[Cimarb]

clownwarlord, on 21 July 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Its not that I wonder if they will get answered its more to when they will get answered. If it isn't till launch of the unit module then it will push back a lot of groups from forming up right away.

I also have another question:
- What are the requirements to form a unit?

12 people with an average of 18.4 million cbills a piece, according to the latest info.

[Sandpit]

so PGI really expects IS players who bought clan mechs to leave their faction to only team up with other clan mechs or stick ot using them in private matches? lol ok, you think you've seen the forum meltdown before....?

also, this is not "new" info, this is the same info released about a year ago...

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 21 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

so PGI really expects IS players who bought clan mechs to leave their faction to only team up with other clan mechs or stick ot using them in private matches? lol ok, you think you've seen the forum meltdown before....?

also, this is not "new" info, this is the same info released about a year ago...

From the limited info released, everyone will be free to play whatever they want in the public queue, just like they do now. The Clan/Faction restriction will only be for the CW queue, which will basically be a Private Match queue controlled by PGI.

[Sandpit]

Cimarb, on 21 July 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

From the limited info released, everyone will be free to play whatever they want in the public queue, just like they do now. The Clan/Faction restriction will only be for the CW queue, which will basically be a Private Match queue controlled by PGI.

That's what I'm saying. You can't participate in CW as an IS player with those mechs you just dropped $240 on without leaving your unit and faction? You can agree or disagree on whether it's "right" or not but I can promise you this, if that's PGI's take on it you will see a lot of meltdown from players who dropped hundreds of dollars on mechs and can't use them if they want to stick with a unit and/or faction they just spent 2 years building friends and teamamtes in. There will be a massive amount of backlash if they do that. It would not be a smart move

[CyclonerM]

Sandpit, on 21 July 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying. You can't participate in CW as an IS player with those mechs you just dropped $240 on without leaving your unit and faction? You can agree or disagree on whether it's "right" or not but I can promise you this, if that's PGI's take on it you will see a lot of meltdown from players who dropped hundreds of dollars on mechs and can't use them if they want to stick with a unit and/or faction they just spent 2 years building friends and teamamtes in. There will be a massive amount of backlash if they do that. It would not be a smart move

I bet even the most passionated MechWarriors like me would need from time to time to have a more relaxed match , just for fun, outside the battles of CW shaping the Inner Sphere. This would be similar to War Thunder, where you can have more realistic and hard battles and also relax with some more easy and casual match, or any other game in which you can play a random match AND a persistent campaign/world/universe.

What i mean is that, after all, IS players will be able to pilot their Clan 'Mechs often and easily. I would not want to see IS teams in CW full of Clan Omnies in 3049, it would cheap the experience of the invasion, honestly.

[Gorgo7]

Sandpit, on 21 July 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying. You can't participate in CW as an IS player with those mechs you just dropped $240 on without leaving your unit and faction? You can agree or disagree on whether it's "right" or not but I can promise you this, if that's PGI's take on it you will see a lot of meltdown from players who dropped hundreds of dollars on mechs and can't use them if they want to stick with a unit and/or faction they just spent 2 years building friends and teamamtes in. There will be a massive amount of backlash if they do that. It would not be a smart move

What are you blowing about? Of course you will be able to use you clan machines. And with your buddies too. And with your group name. Faction? Smarten up!
You won't be mixing inner sphere and clan gear though. Get used to that.

Sandpits Weavers *merc logo here* Inner sphere mech's ONLY

Sandpits Weavers *Clan logo here* Clan mech's ONLY

Get the idea?

[Cimarb]

Gorgo7, on 22 July 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

What are you blowing about? Of course you will be able to use you clan machines. And with your buddies too. And with your group name. Faction? Smarten up!
You won't be mixing inner sphere and clan gear though. Get used to that.

Sandpits Weavers *merc logo here* Inner sphere mech's ONLY

Sandpits Weavers *Clan logo here* Clan mech's ONLY

Get the idea?

That is wishful thinking, at best. Nothing of that sort has actually been said by PGI, and in fact what they have said contradicts it.

[Reno Blade]

Spoiler

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Indeed.

My ideal approach would be something more similar to MW:LL than MWO, but this is not the place for it.

Honestly, i have some dubts about the economy CW will bring, too. I would rather see something more deep like Star Citizen's economy, even if simplified as MWO lacks activities different from combat.
Just having prices fluctuate is not quite enough IMHO. Thousand of players have stockpiled tons of C-Bills, weapons and equipment so higher prices do not influence their economy at all.

Ideas for the economy?

-Equipment salvage

-Repair and ream

-Jump fees to rent a jumpship

-Possibility to buy a jumpship for a very high price in exchange for more movement flexibility and no jump fees , not destroyable (neither Houses nor Clans want to waste Jumpships, though the Clans can actually replace them)

-Unit assets maintenance (Dropships, bases, base garrisons, support staff), different for merc units and House/Clan units

-Fluctuations of rewards for mercenary contracts (a world attacked by a Clan force would prompt the ruling House to offer a rich contract to bolster its defences, while a Periphery-FWL border planet would have many less opportunities for mercs, mostly bandits that could be represented by lone wolves).

-For House players, pay should be based on rank, which is influented by Loyalty Points, which are influenced by combat performance; for Clan players, a similar Honor-based system should reward victories against a supposed stronger opponent with higher rewards (hmm, never been a fan of c-bills for Clansmen! What would it take to change the name of the currency and change some prices?).

-Some merc units' assets should be destroyable (most notably DropShips) that represent a decent loss of money

-A high amount of worlds lost by a faction should have disadvantages for that faction' players. Reduced availability of items, less pay for regulars (but more for mercs maybe?).

Besides, a merc unit that gets a very high amount of loyalty points with a House should get the opportunity of becoming part of that House' regular army, like McCarron's Armored Cavalry (not sure how many players would actually do it, unless it provides decent advantages or would fit well with their unit's background, a situation i have often seen).



Actually, PGI's job is also to create a believable representation of the BT universe in which you can play. Otherwise, it is just World of 'Mechs.

I wrote up some economy ideas for CW here:
http://mwomercs.com/...and-cw-effects/

It depends on your standing with the house (loyalty points/rank) aswell as the number/type of conquered planets.
I did'nt think of jumpjet fees or other costs you have listed here, but I will probably add that later

[Sandpit]

Gorgo7, on 22 July 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

What are you blowing about? Of course you will be able to use you clan machines. And with your buddies too. And with your group name. Faction? Smarten up!
You won't be mixing inner sphere and clan gear though. Get used to that.

Sandpits Weavers *merc logo here* Inner sphere mech's ONLY

Sandpits Weavers *Clan logo here* Clan mech's ONLY

Get the idea?

it astounds me how many assumptions are made around here about other players based on a post
.I could care less which way they do it. I got no dog in this fight. I'm pointing out what's going to happen if they do that. I promise you there will be a meltdown. I'm trying to help them avoid that because I personally don't want to listen to it for the next 6 months or until the new mech pack distracts people from it.

So maybe stop with the attitude?

[Ertur]

I wanna buy my own dropship. Do I need a mechbay for it?