335 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

Fade Akira, on 12 August 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Why did people sell their IS stuff, and whose fault is it?

You really thought CW would have mixed faction units? in which case the fault is entirely with whichever pilots sold their IS mechs if they intended to be part of an IS unit at any point.

Completely ridiculous comment.

I am for a salvage/achievement unlock to play cross-faction mechs, but otherwise I completely agree. I dreaded using my IS mechs for this Steiner challenge, but I have not sold a single one, even knowing that I would be playing Clan and using only the Clan mechs (unless maybe the Warhammer or Marauder comes out...). I learned not to sell my mechs a long time ago, and it was a painful lesson.

VanillaG, on 12 August 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

What I was trying to say is that the Clans create and disband units over time. Create a new unit, say the 666th Assault Galaxy "Wolf Demons", instead of trying to use an existing canon unit. You would still be associated with Clan Wolf at the unit level but would not be a canon unit. DHB already did this so I don't see what the big deal is.

The reality is if MWO takes off in popularity there will be more people playing than there are slots in the TO&E for all faction units. You will have to create new units if the faction populations get over a certain level so doing that now makes it easier.

If MWO becomes so popular that the entire Galactic TO&E is filled, I think that will be a VERY good "problem" to address...

[Threat Doc]

Man, I take a two-hour nap, and everyone goes nuts, hehe...

Cimarb, on 12 August 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Having someone at PGI that handled things like that, with a team of community managers acting as Khans (and whatever a particular House calls them), would be a huge boost to the community.

I have bugged various folks at PGI, from support to Russ himself about hiring a Merc Corps Commander's Liaison to the job, someone who would work from home, but take phone calls, emails, PMs, etc., to be able to answer questions and help Commander's set up their units when the time comes. Unfortunately, no one has spoken with me, yet, and I have a feeling no one will. The Clans and Houses are going to be smaller, overall -population-wise- than the Merc Units, I think, though they could still get a representative. However, putting Niko in there...? He's already got too much to do, hehe.

VanillaG, on 12 August 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

The reality is if MWO takes off in popularity there will be more people playing than there are slots in the TO&E for all faction units. You will have to create new units if the faction populations get over a certain level so doing that now makes it easier.

This is what I've been saying forever!!! These forums presently have 594,827 forum accounts. Consider that about 450,000 of those are unique, not copies -I've heard of people creating multiple accounts, some of them quite a few, but I think these still do not number more than 150,000- and, once CW comes about and people get word of it, probably about the first of 2015, all 450,000 can be accounted for in these forums, and consider there were about 400 units across House's, Clan's, and Merc's -not counting Pirate/Periphery here outside of Merc's-, that's still 1,125 people per unit, at 500 that's 900. Well, I know for a fact that Armageddon Unlimited is looking to fill three RCTs, so that's 324 people all-told, and I already know that units like DHB, ARMD, and others of similar caliber boasted more than 1,000 each when this game was still strong in Open Beta, so imagine how many people will, actually, be out there.

So, above represents only those accounts that have forum access, as well, whether they peruse the forums and do not post, or they're as prolific as we are.

Now, one of my MechWarrior's has an account, plain as day, for the MWO interface, but it does not register on these forums, I can't find him at all, and I try to connect with all of my MechWarrior's on here from time-to-time. Now, imagine if what Russ, Bryan, and Paul have said is correct, and there are about three times again the number of accounts in the game, that are not registered openly on these forums? You're talking 1,800,000 people that have registered, all-told, across these forums and in the game interface, and that means you're going to NEED a LOT more units -House's, Clan's, and Merc's- to move people into the game and keep them busy. I don't think AU is going to be able to have less than two Brigade's in this game, at five RCTs per Brigade, or about 1,080 people.

Cimarb, on 12 August 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

If MWO becomes so popular that the entire Galactic TO&E is filled, I think that will be a VERY good "problem" to address...

Ahhh, first-world problems, hehe.

[Sandpit]

Kay Wolf, on 12 August 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

I have bugged various folks at PGI, from support to Russ himself about hiring a Merc Corps Commander's Liaison to the job, someone who would work from home, but take phone calls, emails, PMs, etc., to be able to answer questions and help Commander's set up their units when the time comes. Unfortunately, no one has spoken with me, yet, and I have a feeling no one will.

hell I could have told ya that

[CyclonerM]

Kay Wolf, on 12 August 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

So, above represents only those accounts that have forum access, as well, whether they peruse the forums and do not post, or they're as prolific as we are.

Now, one of my MechWarrior's has an account, plain as day, for the MWO interface, but it does not register on these forums, I can't find him at all, and I try to connect with all of my MechWarrior's on here from time-to-time. Now, imagine if what Russ, Bryan, and Paul have said is correct, and there are about three times again the number of accounts in the game, that are not registered openly on these forums? You're talking 1,800,000 people that have registered, all-told, across these forums and in the game interface, and that means you're going to NEED a LOT more units -House's, Clan's, and Merc's- to move people into the game and keep them busy. I don't think AU is going to be able to have less than two Brigade's in this game, at five RCTs per Brigade, or about 1,080 people.

Well, remember than new players and "i-don't-give-a-you-know-what-about-the-lore" players will stay lone wolves, many others will create their own merc units, and only the remainings will join a, hopefully canon, unit serving a House or a Clan

[BLOOD WOLF]

What better clan to serve than Clan Wolf Quiaff?

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 12 August 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

What better clan to serve than Clan Wolf Quiaff?

neg
WiE

[BLOOD WOLF]

What is WiE if I may ask?

[CyclonerM]

Sandpit, on 12 August 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

neg
WiE

We are still the original Clan Wolf

And who are we to say that after CW there will be a split like in the canon lore..?

If there will be, you know where i am going anyway

BLOOD WOLF, on 12 August 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

What is WiE if I may ask?

Wolves-in-Exile.

Edited by CyclonerM, 12 August 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

At least your not a bleeding Crusader. What a path they have chosen, a path to their ruin

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 12 August 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Edward Mattlov]

BLOOD WOLF, on 12 August 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

What better clan to serve than Clan Wolf Quiaff?

Neg, I believe that you meant Clan Jade Falcon?

[Koniving]

PGI, we getting some actual info on this stuff soon?

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Cimarb, on 19 June 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Again, name me a single person in lore that had 50+ BattleMechs in their personal "garage". While major House members may have had full armies at their command, or someone may have been CEO of an organization or whatever other major entity you want to consider, not a single one of them had that many mechs for THEIR personal use.

Jaime Wolfe? Maybe Cranston Snord?

Heck Jaime wolf, had multiple caches of mechs he had hiding away?

[Cimarb]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 12 August 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Jaime Wolfe? Maybe Cranston Snord?

Heck Jaime wolf, had multiple caches of mechs he had hiding away?

Wow...two months ago, lol?

Even though they were the leaders of e mercenary unit, those mechs are the mercenary units, not theirs. They personally only piloted one, or possibly at most a handful, of those mechs, even though they could "commandeer" any of them at any time for obvious reasons. None of them claimed exclusivity on more than one, though, as their units needed the mechs to make money.

[Kyrie]

I would not expect actual info on CW until after August 19th. A lot of good stuff has been posted in this thread, but I am afraid we have gotten so far ahead of ourselves that we are several parsecs off-tangent from whatever PGI has in mind.

The guidelines I have set for myself as to what CW may or may not bring:

1) Expect a very non-lore oriented casual implementation. Think "generic guilds". Illustrated by the generic permissions outlined in the August 19th stuff.

2) Expect very little in terms of logistics and complexity in CW for a very long time.

3) Expect CW to have several key c-bill and MC sinks to sustain the viability of the game. The Clan-pack obscene success is not likely to be repeated. The dropship thing spoken of by PGI previously being a key example.

4) I am hoping they do not use a full 12 on 12 tournament system for CW planetary conquests for unit members, but this is a possibility. They have copied much from World of Tanks. The alternative is a more abstract grinding towards planet ownership per mission (think MPBT 3025 by Kesmai in 1992).

Despite all my misgivings I am looking forward to seeing whether PGI can do something unique and special for CW. But I am practicing my prayer of diminished expectations quite religiously.

[Threat Doc]

CyclonerM, on 12 August 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Well, remember than new players and "i-don't-give-a-you-know-what-about-the-lore" players will stay lone wolves, many others will create their own merc units, and only the remainings will join a, hopefully canon, unit serving a House or a Clan

Okay, in your best estimation, what percentage of the community will we see in lore-busting-lonewolves? How many more units do you believe will be created? Right now, there are 320 North American and English-Speaking European Merc Corps registered, with one or two in the queue, but only about a third of which remain active, and have yet to be cleaned up. The Russians have ten, the Germans come in with 17, the Spanish add two, the Polish with one, the Italians with three, the Fins with two, and the South Africans and Czech's each bring one. These numbers do not include the two-hundred-fifty I'm estimating will come from the House's, the fifty to seventy-five from the Invading Clans, the untold number from the non-Invading Clans, and let's not forget the FRR, St. Ives, and the various Periphery states. Once Europe and Asia get their own servers, I'm sure those numbers will explode, and you'll see a shift in the player base back to native lands.

So, we're looking at a huge number of units, but even with my estimate of around one-thousand faction elements to be filled, we're talking about four-hundred-fifty people per unit with extant registrations, not the ones from in-game without forum registration as well.

So, what percentage of the population will remain Lone Wolves, in your estimation, and how many more units do you think we would see?

Koniving, on 12 August 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

PGI, we getting some actual info on this stuff soon?

Russ tweeted, last night, that Niko was working on a post for Community Warfare, a new Command Chair. I checked between games, last night, and it never came, it's still not here, so it's anybody's guess, at this point.

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 12 August 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Jaime Wolfe? Maybe Cranston Snord?

Heck Jaime wolf, had multiple caches of mechs he had hiding away?

Cimarb already said this, but unit leaders don't keep stables of 'Mechs like that... just like any business, you have to have the tools available to run it, so only one of those 'Mechs belongs to him full time.

Kyrie, on 12 August 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

The guidelines I have set for myself as to what CW may or may not bring:

1) Expect a very non-lore oriented casual implementation. Think "generic guilds". Illustrated by the generic permissions outlined in the August 19th stuff.

2) Expect very little in terms of logistics and complexity in CW for a very long time.

3) Expect CW to have several key c-bill and MC sinks to sustain the viability of the game. The Clan-pack obscene success is not likely to be repeated. The dropship thing spoken of by PGI previously being a key example.

Agree with all three of these, I'm afraid.

Quote

4) I am hoping they do not use a full 12 on 12 tournament system for CW planetary conquests for unit members, but this is a possibility. They have copied much from World of Tanks. The alternative is a more abstract grinding towards planet ownership per mission (think MPBT 3025 by Kesmai in 1992).

There used to be mention in "The Plan" about having some objectives, but I'm not finding those since they completely reorganized it last month. That's hurtful to me. I would rather see objective-based combat that means something, then a bunch of the same crap we've been doing for over two years, now, only this time for a percentage of the planet. That is nowhere near good enough for a game of this caliber, for a universe as rich as BattleTech. I think we may, eventually, get what the lion's share of us want; unfortunately, it's not going to be anytime soon, I fear.

Quote

Despite all my misgivings I am looking forward to seeing whether PGI can do something unique and special for CW. But I am practicing my prayer of diminished expectations quite religiously.

For what they did with the modules slot system three weeks ago, for which they should be ashamed, I'm afraid I may have to start praying that same prayer. They should have done what they said they were going to do in their own Dev Blogs, what brought all of us paying customers in, in the first place, and they would continue to have money coming out their ears.

[Kyrie]

Kay Wolf, on 12 August 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Okay, in your best estimation, what percentage of the community will we see in lore-busting-lonewolves? How many more units do you believe will be created? Right now, there are 320 North American and English-Speaking European Merc Corps registered, with one or two in the queue, but only about a third of which remain active, and have yet to be cleaned up. The Russians have ten, the Germans come in with 17, the Spanish add two, the Polish with one, the Italians with three, the Fins with two, and the South Africans and Czech's each bring one. These numbers do not include the two-hundred-fifty I'm estimating will come from the House's, the fifty to seventy-five from the Invading Clans, the untold number from the non-Invading Clans, and let's not forget the FRR, St. Ives, and the various Periphery states. Once Europe and Asia get their own servers, I'm sure those numbers will explode, and you'll see a shift in the player base back to native lands.

So, we're looking at a huge number of units, but even with my estimate of around one-thousand faction elements to be filled, we're talking about four-hundred-fifty people per unit with extant registrations, not the ones from in-game without forum registration as well.

So, what percentage of the population will remain Lone Wolves, in your estimation, and how many more units do you think we would see?

Russ tweeted, last night, that Niko was working on a post for Community Warfare, a new Command Chair. I checked between games, last night, and it never came, it's still not here, so it's anybody's guess, at this point.

Cimarb already said this, but unit leaders don't keep stables of 'Mechs like that... just like any business, you have to have the tools available to run it, so only one of those 'Mechs belongs to him full time.

Agree with all three of these, I'm afraid.

There used to be mention in "The Plan" about having some objectives, but I'm not finding those since they completely reorganized it last month. That's hurtful to me. I would rather see objective-based combat that means something, then a bunch of the same crap we've been doing for over two years, now, only this time for a percentage of the planet. That is nowhere near good enough for a game of this caliber, for a universe as rich as BattleTech. I think we may, eventually, get what the lion's share of us want; unfortunately, it's not going to be anytime soon, I fear.

For what they did with the modules slot system three weeks ago, for which they should be ashamed, I'm afraid I may have to start praying that same prayer. They should have done what they said they were going to do in their own Dev Blogs, what brought all of us paying customers in, in the first place, and they would continue to have money coming out their ears.

Sort of completely off-topic, but I wanted to share experiences I've had with a recent game that has implemented an FPS Shooter <-->CW system that is to my mind quite interesting. Its a game that is about 3 years old, but I discovered it only recently: Heroes & Generals. The basic premise is that its WW2, Germany vs the USA (the full Axis/Allies aren't implemented yet but are planned). The battle plays out in Europe and England. The interesting point is that it is both an RTS and FPS: the generals deploy the assets that are used in each battle. The heroes fight the battles in the FPS using the resources sent by the generals (infantry being the most common, and the support of planes and tanks being more expensive and rare).

Each battle consists of first a series of skirmishes on the map, and then the main fight for the city. Regardless of whether its a skirmish or a main battle, its won by taking and holding key objectives.

I sort of lost my mind and fell in love with that game for the RTS/strategy elements. It doesnt have that much depth, but it has elements that feed my passion for strategy. Staring at map, figuring out where to send resources... Even though I can't honestly say its an awesome game, I personally find it very appealing -- and have dumped a ridiculous amount of money into it. If PGI were to take the best elements of this game for their CW, incorporating into a more complex overall structure of units, mercs, contracts and all the good BT stuff... well, I would dump an insane amount of money on this game.

[Threat Doc]

Amen, hallelujah!!! Me, too. As... soon... as I have... that rare green papery/cloth stuff... yeah, you can buy things with it... the name escapes my brain... (reads Kyrie's post, again)... oh, yeah, money, hehe.

On a truly serious note, the strategic elements, in space, in aerospace, on the ground, in the water, all of that is important to me, and I would truly love to see it. I guess PGI put to work some of the guys that have worked around the community, from Mektek and MWLL, so maybe we'll see improvements... they need to look and see what NBT-MWO are doing, and get those guys to work for them, as well, implementing a strategy game that is out of this world. With all of the proper assets available for unit commander's to play with, people would come from non-sci-fi tradition games to try this out.

It's too bad PGI can't seem to get a handle on these basic ideas.

[CyclonerM]

Kay Wolf, on 12 August 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

So, we're looking at a huge number of units, but even with my estimate of around one-thousand faction elements to be filled, we're talking about four-hundred-fifty people per unit with extant registrations, not the ones from in-game without forum registration as well.

So, what percentage of the population will remain Lone Wolves, in your estimation, and how many more units do you think we would see?

Very interesting question. I would like to give you a sure answer.. But i am afraid it is impossible.

Some time ago i saw a pic of a old graphic released by PGI that showed that the majority of the players were aligned in this way: lone wolves > House Davion > House Steiner > Merc Corp > the others, or something like that.

Of course, that was prior to the Clans, so many of the lone wolves and some House players were Clansmen waiting for their Clan. Most important, however, the factions mean nothing right now, so being a lone wolf is not different from being a loyal MechWarrior of House Kurita.

It is very hard to guess the percentages, of course. A good number of lone wolves will either align with a faction or create/join a merc unit , interested to the new mechanics of CW.

However.. Oddly, there are a handful of people who have expressed their little interest in CW. Those few are likely to stay LW. They are the key. I have no idea of how many this players may be, but i think they will be the bulk of the LWs.

I hope that CW will bring more players. They will start as LWs until they get how it works and join an unit, so i do not expect them to stay LW forever.

I suppose that even the casual players may join a faction to earn bonuses like Loyalty points to unlock some stuff, but this will depend on how the loyalist life will work.

If the loyalist life easily fits with pug life, i expect to see many of the pugs4ever people joining a faction to earn passive bonuses, without joining an unit. Not sure about this, however, because in my mind a loyalist pug makes no sense, so there is a chance this kind of players, those who do not wish to or cannot join an unit, will be lone wolves.

From the plans they have released many easily got the impression that CW will be based on merc corps rather than House militaries. This is unfortunate. One would hope that MWO could be different from all the others MMOs.. But no. Classic guilds will dominate, and while i might be a bit pessimistic, i fear that factions will be a little heaven for few die-hard BT fans.

Your estimate of the various units sizes is not complete enough, i fear.

While there may be a lot of units, they greatly vary in size.

For example, i do not know very well the three italian units, but i am quite sure that one of them (Frati Mazzolatori) is big enough, last time i checked they had three companies but now they may have grown to battalion size or even more. Another one (Black Sun) has probably quite less players. The last one, (Heavy Rocco Seals), is the newer one and the most casual-oriented, it should be around company size. I will ask.

Other units, like yours, on the other hand, have multiple regiments, or, like mine, multiple Clusters.

And how do you know how many of these units are aligned to a faction, and how many of them are just merc units?

With the last news about Faction units with module 1, however, i am confused and i eagerly wait Niko's post to clarify.

With that said.. One early generic estimate could be 20-35% lone wolves, 25-45% House or Clan units, 45-55% merc units.

But it is very hard to guess now. I look forward to see some stats in the future.

[Threat Doc]

Okay, here's my assumption... yes, I know what assuming does, but I'm going to drive ahead, anyway...

Of the older crowd, perhaps 5% will remain Lone Wolves, about 25% will join Houses, 35% or Clans, and the remaining 35% will form or join Merc Units. The older crowd are people who played before the demise of MechWarrior III online play and, perhaps, a good deal of tabletop.

With those numbers, considering that the older crowd likely makes up only about 35% of the current player base, that's 157,500 players, giving the following split: 7,800 - 8,000 Lone Wolves, 55,000 - 56,000 for Clans, 39,000 - 40,000 for Houses, and 39,000 to 49,000 for Mercs.

Of the younger, non-inculcated crowd, the twitch gamers, I'm going to say up to 15% of those will remain Lone Wolves, about 50% will join the Clans, 20% will join Houses, and the remaining 15% will join or attempt to form Merc Corps.

For the younger crowd, making up 65% of the current player base, that's 292,500, giving the following split: 43,000 - 44,000 for Lone Wolves, 146,000 - 147,000 for the Clans, 58,000 - 59,000 to the Houses, and 43,000 - 44,000 to the Merc Units.

Now, this is just using the nominal number I came up with to represent true single-account forum registrations, not including all of the others that are in the game without also having a forum account.

So, for my part, even though the Merc Units, at this point, outweigh the numbers of of other units combined, at 322 -to the best of my knowledge- that means each of those Merc Units are looking at a potential of 289 members. That is just with returning members, after CW begins. I believe that, for phase one, people will begin to filter in, because they want that association. However, by phase two they will be returning regularly, if still sort of slowly, and new people will begin to show up, if CW is worth a damn, and then once phase three, Planetary, kicks off, I would expect to see those numbers swell pretty ridiculously.

Now, if there's any sort of learning curve, whatsoever, to Merc Unit Management, expect units to drop like flies, the percentages among age groups to shake out as I've listed, above, and for all units to begin rising with those numbers.

This is all just speculation, but I love to do that when numbers are involved.

[CyclonerM]

I can agree with your numbers, except that i expect to see Merc Units outnumber Faction Units expecially considering the younger crowd. The twitchy, fatty 14 y.o. kids have only known "clans" in games like CoD, so why should they join a "Marik" or "Liao" unit when they can create or be part of their own "clan" ? Especially if merc units will have more interesting mechanics.

I also agree with the Clan numbers, many "techbabies" will join a Clan just to use their "OP" Clan 'Mechs.

P.S. I really hope you are right with the number of "veterans", because i fear they are even less. They have apparently little impact on the game anyway . which is kind of stupid if you ask me, but this is another story..