61 replies to this topic

[Phlinger]

Pygar, on 19 June 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

It sounds good...but really I think this module is eroding team play by encouraging people to find good places to hide where they stay until the game ends. I don't know if it's this module, the Clans in general, or just random bad luck, but so far this week "teamwork" in random matches seems to have gone right out the window.

It's simple what they intended when they made this module. They are forcing the LRM players to be more proactive and not just standing around lobbing missiles at the first lock they get.

[cSand]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

what's your amazing heat free Timberwolf build? Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't even own a TBR Bishop

So I guess technically that makes it heat free

Edited by cSand, 19 June 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[DasaDevil]

I don't really notice a difference. Then again, I've almost always had a spotter so..

[Allen Ward]

I stopped counting how many times the game "turned into Missile Warrior" since start of open beta. Everytime they change something that has to do with missiles, people start (over)using missiles (they want to test the changes), and then someone (who got killed by a missile salvo) starts complaining. Missiles still don't do much damage, they spread, they miss and there is AMS (oh I forgot, you guys omit the AMS for another Med Laser). The only thing that has impact is the fact that the Clan mechs are real LRM boats. Forget Stalker boats - Clan mechs can carry so many launchers and missiles that you could arm 2 Stalkers with it. As everyone who bought clan mechs now plays them, the air is swarming with missiles.

I actually die from Clan ballistics/energy hellfire and not from LRMs, although they soften up my armor a lot. Brawling is not possible with so many missiles flying around, bringing ECM only helps that much, as every Clan mech does have that extra energy slot for a Tag. Still, what works is: simply charge those buggers. Get within 190m and alpha strike them to the side torso. Deny them killing you with volleys of LRMs or hitting you at 600m with their multiple ER/PPC guns. It's not easy, but it's far from impossible.

A new enemy means you have to bring up new tactics. Not PGI.

Still, I am not a friend of how PGI implements electronic warfare. PGI wants modules and stuff to be simple. A counters B - end of story. This is not very smart and very boring. there are so many options of how they could do this better. PPC EMP effect, for example, should occur on multiple simultaneous PPC hits according to "the lore". PGI likes to spit on lore and puts in a strong EMP effect on ANY PPC hit - which ONLY takes out ECM for a moment. Why? Every mech suffering from an EMP effect should have problems with mini radar, monitors and probably random crit effects like a heat sink or a weapon system (Gauss?) going offline for a moment. But that seems to be to complicated for the developers/game designers, they call this a simulation and give us nothing more than arcade action.

[Bishop Steiner]

cSand, on 19 June 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I don't even own a TBR Bishop

So I guess technically that makes it heat free

I'm must have quoted off you by mistake, I meant Lockwood's from his post you quoted.

[Pygar]

Technoviking, on 19 June 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Hey friends...

If this is a mandatory module on a two module mech... guess which isn't? Arty and Air.

Arty and Air strikes were already mostly dead because of the recent nerf... I am only seeing it in battles or personally using it probably 1/4 of the amount that I did a couple weeks back....even then, the strikes don't have any teeth any more so people (including myself) aren't reacting to them the same either. (If I find myself getting strike'd- I just stand still, wait a couple seconds and go back to what I was doing before the strike.)

Edited by Pygar, 19 June 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Its because everyone has new shiny toys and is getting lost in new build, loadouts, etc. Not to mention not many people have their clan mechs even fully basic yet. So they are slow, clumsy and having a harder time staying with the group and maneuvering. Once people get the hang of the mechs im sure it will change.....my team has enjoyed everything about these modules and the clan mechs. Has actually helped us as a team when suing the clan mechs because no one is too fast, outruns the other ones and our fatties dont get left too far behind. Radar Dep made LRMS what they are SUPPOSE to be, they are not seek and destroy WMD's they are a support role weapon and that is now how they will have to be used which is CANON!

Pygar, on 19 June 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

It sounds good...and my "boat" is even fit with this in mind already- but really I think this module is eroding team play by encouraging people to find good places to hide where they stay until the game ends. I don't know if it's this module, the Clans in general, or just random bad luck, but so far this week "teamwork" in random matches seems to have gone right out the window. (But I am seeing lot's of hiding and back pedaling....sure teamwork in PUGs was always hit or miss, but post "invasion" it has gotten downright terrible in games I have played so far.)

Doesn't matter what Modules they come out with, or what mechs we run or META. You will always have "STAT WHORES" who care about nothing more then their meaningless K/D. Nothing else you can do about it other then call them out in the game. Or do what i did and find pilots with honor, courage, and skill who play the game for what it is and join em!

[Allen Ward]

Ronyn, on 19 June 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

It's simple what they intended when they made this module. They are forcing the LRM players to be more proactive and not just standing around lobbing missiles at the first lock they get.

True, but this is totally against the idea of a indirect firing weapon system. Forcing missile boats to seek LOS and close distance breaks a lot of concepts (LRM mechs usually are lightly armored and not fit for close combat situations). PGI thinks in ways of Rock Paper Scissors.

[Sephlock]

Ghogiel, on 19 June 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

I just don't have sympathy for lurmers.

I know they have no mercy for anyone else, so yeah no.

I suppose you think that was terribly clever.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

lrm's are not meant to be the i win button. if you want to win you need to work together with an ecm toting scout which possesses tag and narc. or at the very least you need to play with a guy that has a tag and beagle so you can actually utilize the indirect part of indirect fire.

[Logan812]

Man, remember the old days of MW4 when you actually had to hold the reticle on the enemy 'mech itself to get missile lock? I admit (even though use LRMs) that would solve a lot of balancing problems with LRMs while also adding somewhat of a skill requirement to using them. At least then the enemy would have to be in the line of sight.

Edited by Logan812, 19 June 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[Pygar]

Allen Ward, on 19 June 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

True, but this is totally against the idea of a indirect firing weapon system. Forcing missile boats to seek LOS and close distance breaks a lot of concepts (LRM mechs usually are lightly armored and not fit for close combat situations). PGI thinks in ways of Rock Paper Scissors.

The "rock-paper-scissors" thing would work...but many light pilots see themselves as ECM + LL or PPC snipers instead of actual scouts- so not very much "spotter mech" and "Missile support mech" interplay (teamwork) is occurring....which makes it feel more like "Rock vs. Paper and only idiots bother to try and bring scissors".

Logan812, on 19 June 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Man, remember the old days of MW4 when you actually had to hold the reticle on the enemy 'mech itself to get missile lock? I admit (even though use LRMs) that would solve a lot of balancing problems with LRMs while also adding somewhat of a skill requirement to using them. At least then the enemy would have to be in the line of sight.

Oh yeah, this reminds me.... with Clan LRMs it's harder to get locks on people in the first place- they pretty much do require aiming now.

Edited by Pygar, 19 June 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Harathan, on 19 June 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

It's got nothing to do with sympathy or mercy and everything to do with a level playing field. Try thinking of game balance in terms of actual game mechanics, rather than in terms of your ego.

Well it is balance in game mechanics. Damage is supposed to involve risk. If you shoot a laser at someone you have to aim the shot and expose your mech. The same goes for LRMs. You either move to a position to spot targets for yourself like fast LRM medium would and risk enemy fire or a scout goes forward to spot for you and he/she takes the risk.

LRMs are NOT supposed to work the way Target Decay and better missile speed made them work. You got free damage on any mech that popped up on radar even for an instant. Meaning any time anyone even showed a glimpse of their mech, you get to hit them with a volley.

Now I have played LRM boats and I do love LRMs as a weapon and I do understand that it can be frustrating to get targets. However, when there are several LRM boats it results in every mech that gets a slight glimpse of it spotted gets a billion LRMs going to it and at sub 700m it's very hard to dodge them as you're still on radar by the time the missiles arrive.

This is done with no aim and no risk. What makes LRMs fun, satisfying and not just detrimental to the flow of the game is using them with spotting mechanics not via the extra time you get from target decay. They are supposed to require teamwork.

Finally I'd like to say that they need a revamp so that they are less team dependent, but not like this.

[Biaxialrain]

Haters gonna hate.

Cry babies gonna cry about LRMs.

Learn how to play.

[Pygar]

Biaxialrain, on 19 June 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Haters gonna hate.

Cry babies gonna cry about LRMs.

Learn how to play.

I know right? I can get upwards of 7 kills in a match with 2x Gauss Jager...but here I am spending the last few nights pulling my hair out of my head because I can't even get enough meaningful locks in an LRM boat to manage even one kill.

L2 boat PP/FLD cannons or GTFO...apparently. Oh no wait, we can Zerg/Brawl too. Just as long as it's not LRMs because LRMs make people angry like they have never had anything kill them in any match ever before.

Edited by Pygar, 19 June 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Varik Ronain]

Just use one of your missile hardpoints for a damn narc couple it with the enhanced narc for the amazing speed increase and amazingly you can fire indirectly with a 100% tracking strength bonus. IS is 450M range adn a clan mech fires the 600m range narc. I use it on my cat without much issue. You end up being just like a poptart. JJ up and tag/lock and fire your lrms and on the way down there is no shake... perfect time to land that narc. Now sit back and maim your narced target (who has radar dep module). believe it or not with the speed increase you can narc lights with ECM as well. Try it sometime! If every lurm carrier did this there would be so much QQ about LRMs it would be the only topic on the forums. Make a module that hurts lrms even more? They gave us a module that is even better than instant target loss... just adjust and enjoy the new found LRM hate.

Edited by Varik Ronain, 19 June 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Harathan]

Ghogiel, on 19 June 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Let me check... yep QQ threads about lurms being OP on the first page of this forum.

Your opinion is noted. Have a nice day.

Tell you what. Come up with an opinion based on game mechanics using a well thought line of reasoning and I'll concede you have a point. Continue to post unhelpful comments about how badly it hurts your ego when people make threads about game balance that disagrees with your personal point of view, and we'll just acknowledge that your opnion is not worth noting. Sound fair?

[Threat Doc]

cSand said:

It's not like everyone is using it either

No, but enough people soon will be.

Ngamok said:

I think the Target Decay module still works but it's decay is cut down in half instead of full bonus. Confirm anyone?

No, it does not. Confirmed negative on that. I locked up an ECM umbrella'd Timberwolf on a couple of occasions, and it walked behind blocking terrain and disappeared immediately from my locks.

Green Mamba said:

Another Thread...Really?

Until the problem is solved, yes.

ztac said:

And LRM are not already overpowered enough as it is?

What, pray tell, is overpowering about LRMs? Here's a test for you... get into that little valley by the waterfall on Forest Colony Snow and have four guys around you with ballistics and lasers only, and you try to fight them; try to get away from them when they have you surrounded, and let's see how long you last, there. Okay, now be in that same valley, with a LRM-boat over the next ridge. You can't see it, but only about 22% of the munitions it fires are reaching you, and that's WITHOUT AMS, and you can get behind a rock, step thirty meters to the left and shut down for a few seconds to break the lock, and then go on about your day. So, if I'm driving my BLR-1S with an LRM-5 and 3 LRM-10s, that means 7 or eight of my missiles are getting through per volley. So, make a comparison, a series of AC/5s and Large Lasers on four equally outfitted 'Mechs, or 7 missiles per five seconds. Through which are you going to last longer? Still have a complaint about LRMs?

Ronyn, on 19 June 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

The key to using LRM's while this module is in game now, is don't plant in one spot and try to lob missiles anymore, it doesn't work. Move with the group and stay behind them by about 50-100 meters. You'll get locks and manage some kills. I know it sounds strange, but it works. There isn't many things in this game more frightening than a pair of Daishi/Atlas' coming over the hill and then a stream of missiles guiding them in from behind them. Kind of terrifying actually. It's like one of those 'Oh ****' moments.

That's awesome, that's just a great line of reasoning. I follow it nearly every single time I'm in the game. See, I don't follow my Lance dogmatically, but I take the actions I feel are tactically sound, instead, to ensure my Lance and I have the greatest opportunity to win. I support my Lance, I move with my Lance unless there are other targets of opportunity to take on, but I normally support my Lance, until they starburst and all go their individual ways, and then I'm left choosing one of my Lancemates to follow, or I head off for a larger group of 'Mechs that are still together, working as a team. This rarely happens.

So, I keep reading a lot of people talking about using Light 'Mechs for spotting, for keeping LOS. That's all great and fine and dandy until they're dead from the first 'Mech they were spotting against. I have some good friends who are great with the Recon role, despite the lack of Recon role in this game, and if they're really good, they'll last through up to three 'Mechs before they're done for. These are people who find places to stay behind while spotting, or who keep on the move and try to help the team, etc., and they get ganked in short order, generally, if not from Light hunters, then from the 'Mechs they're spotting against. Not great, right now.

Ronyn, on 19 June 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

It's simple what they intended when they made this module. They are forcing the LRM players to be more proactive and not just standing around lobbing missiles at the first lock they get.

LRM boats are there for the support of it, they are not, typically built with the intent of entering the brawl. It's too bad you can't open your mind to the third dimensional properties involved in the various 'Mech types.

Logan812, on 19 June 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Man, remember the old days of MW4 when you actually had to hold the reticle on the enemy 'mech itself to get missile lock? I admit (even though use LRMs) that would solve a lot of balancing problems with LRMs while also adding somewhat of a skill requirement to using them. At least then the enemy would have to be in the line of sight.

Remember the **** days in MechWarrior 4 when you could hold the lock regardless of rocks or buildings or anything else intervening? Oh, yeah, huh....

[Lyoto Machida]

Technoviking, on 19 June 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Hey friends...

If this is a mandatory module on a two module mech... guess which isn't? Arty and Air.

Lol...I ditched that module because it was locked on one of my other mechs. Ran Arty and Air instead for a change and it was great haha.

Nice to see a whole lot less of strikes and poptarters...and by less, I mean almost non-existent (at least in my ELO).

RF Greywolf, on 19 June 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

With all due respects: The module did NOT come with the clan packages and is usable by all mechs, clan or IS. Hardly P2W.

It's pay to win because he couldn't afford it without selling mechs.

[Xarian]

Yeah, this mod is not a big deal at all. It makes using terrain more effective, which is a good thing. It barely even has an effect - radar locks get broken if you dive behind terrain anyway, just not as quickly.

Also keep in mind that losing the lock doesn't make your missiles magically disappear. If the opponent is moving slowly (e.g. Dire Wolf) then the missiles are going to hit him anyway.