14 replies to this topic

[Ambuscade]

Since the introduction of turrets in Assault, one of the primary objectives of the mode has faded from the picture. To "capture the enemy base" is no easy task with the longer capture times and even more so by the tenacious turrets defending them. Don't get me wrong, this is a good thing. To capture an opponent's base should require a concentrated effort, rather than a lone mech.

However, I also liked the idea of the opportunistic light mech stealing away the win or drawing off the enemy through base capture (even if it was one mech). Therefore, I have come up with a proposal to improve upon this abandoned tactic and breath life into the underpowered flamer.

The Proposal

In reality, the flamethrower's role was to destroy fortifications, primarily bunkers and machine gun nests. My proposal is give the MWO flamer a similar role by allowing it to rapidly destroy the only current fortification in the game: turrets.

"Fluff" Interpretation

To me, the bases we currently have in Assault are more like mobile base camps. The capping point is centered around a vehicle that is essentially a mobile HQ. Therefore, the turrets surrounding the HQ are a portable, medium sized design. They are equipped with the bare minimum to serve their function (to protect the base and delay a concentrated assault until a counter attack can save it). These turrets are not equipped with a significant amount of heat sinks, evident by their low rate of fire.

Despite being equipped with plenty of armor to withstand concentrated fire from conventional weapons, the turrets should be vulnerable to a heat based attack, like from a flamer.

Implementation

Rather than being destroyed by raw damage from a flamer attack, I think the heat buildup should destroy the turret. Initially, the turret operates as normal. However, as the heat climbs, the turret shuts down like a mech would (it would not withdraw in cocoon form, as I contend the turret wasn't designed to withstand a heat based attack and lacks the safeguards). Then, rather than cooling off like mech would (as mechs have built in safeguards for this kind of thing) the turret continues to build heat until catastrophic failure. By failure I mean the LRM ammunition explodes, the laser housings melt, the computer handling fire control overheats and fries, etc.

Conclusion

I believe this to be a good idea to implement to add a bit more depth to Assault. The flamer attack on a turret would not and should not be an instant kill. The time to kill should be proportional to the number of flamers used. To balance it, the turrets' "heat threshold" could simply be adjusted accordingly. As light mechs are typically the users of flamers (at least in lore) the idea of a light mech raid on a mobile HQ seems fitting with these weapons being the tool to "crack open the nut".

Please discuss and comment, Ambuscade.

[Sephlock]

Also make them do the OTHER thing they were supposed to do: Overheat enemies.

[Ambuscade]

Lol, I'd like them to do that too. However, that argument has been going on for quite some time. I thought I would take a different approach, give them another unique role that caters to their sole ability to induce heat damage. I for one believe flamers won't be truly effective until:

A: they introduce heat penalties, thus giving more reward to player using a heat based attack

B: get over the fear of broken flamers like the ones that existed in closed beta

Anyhow, just my two c-bills worth.

Ambuscade

Edited by Ambuscade, 20 June 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Sephlock]

Ambuscade, on 20 June 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Lol, I'd like them to do that too. However, that argument has been going on for quite some time. I thought I would take a different approach, give them another unique role that caters to their sole ability to induce heat damage. I for one believe flamers won't be truly effective until:

A: they introduce heat penalties, thus giving more reward to player using a heat based attack

B: get over the fear of broken flamers like the ones that existed in closed beta

Anyhow, just my two c-bills worth.

Ambuscade

How about this: Make flamers do what they are supposed to do AND bring back knockdown, but give the Devs special Platinum mechs that are immune to both.

Everybody wins.

[Xarian]

Sephlock, on 20 June 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

How about this: Make flamers do what they are supposed to do AND bring back knockdown, but give the Devs special Platinum mechs that are immune to both.

Everybody wins.

Gib the dev!

[Ambuscade]

Man my thread death spiraled fast. My intentions had been to suggest an idea to give the flamer new life by giving it a unique "skill." As much as I desire to see a more effective Mech vs. Mech flamer, this thread is not intended to discuss that topic.

Please keep the comments on topic and constructive.

Ambuscade

[Rando Slim]

Overall, I like your idea OP, and found it logical respective to the assumptions you made. Im down for anything that increases skill threshold or adding depth to game-modes.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Sephlock, on 20 June 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Also make them do the OTHER thing they were supposed to do: Overheat enemies.

Yeah, but then it would be like stun lock in an MMO......a mech, once hit by flamers would never get to do anything but be heat locked and permanently shutdown...

[xMintaka]

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 June 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, but then it would be like stun lock in an MMO......a mech, once hit by flamers would never get to do anything but be heat locked and permanently shutdown...

Until the practically defenseless Flamer mech is obliterated by the rest of the team

[Sephlock]

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 June 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, but then it would be like stun lock in an MMO......a mech, once hit by flamers would never get to do anything but be heat locked and permanently shutdown...

Sounds good.

Lets do it.

[Scratx]

Lunatech, on 23 June 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Until the practically defenseless Flamer mech is obliterated by the rest of the team

You mean the typical PUG team that doesn't have any tactical awareness whatsoever?

I think I could make a lance where one guy packs nothing but flamers and the rest swiftly kill the shutdown dude and kill half the enemy team before they noticed. By then it would be too late.

[xMintaka]

Scratx, on 23 June 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

You mean the typical PUG team that doesn't have any tactical awareness whatsoever?

I think I could make a lance where one guy packs nothing but flamers and the rest swiftly kill the shutdown dude and kill half the enemy team before they noticed. By then it would be too late.

I've been on a PUG team with a lance of flamer mechs. We lost spectacularly.

Especially now with the 30 to 50 pinpoint alpha's flying around, a light mech isn't going to live long enough to keep a mech shut down.

[Shabahh Kerensky]

I totally support this idea. It could give the Adder some time to shine with its BS fixed flamer. It could also add something interesting to assault mode as it's gotten boring since no one wants to leave their base half the time. Especially on river city which I've been getting a lot on assault and I hate it more than Terra Therma now.

Edited by Shabahh, 23 June 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Blood Rose]

Or alternatively, introduce AI controlled Infantry.

In TT Flamers where every Infantry platoons deepest, darkest, represt, nightmare, as a single Flamer was capable of obliterating half a platoon in a single shot, if they where in cover.
If they where not in cover..... Well, lets just say "Charnel Pit".

Flamers would be the ultimate anti-infantry weapon, capable of obliterating those pesky little men whom are poking your Mech with man portable weapons, small arms fire, etc.

[Ambuscade]

AI controlled infantry would be interesting. Perhaps ground pounders with SRM pack, etc for Inner Sphere and elementals for Clans I suppose? Course, faction specific stuff probably wouldn't be seen until Community Warfare. In the meantime it could be introduced as a consumable module, a commander's one time ability, or a function of the command console.

Ultimately though, the inclusion of infantry would deviate resources from Community Warfare and prolong its actual release. I'm sure no one wants that. My idea is something simple. I'm sure adding heat bars and related consequences wouldn't be resource intensive and hopefully add a lot more depth to the game.

Ambuscade