55 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

How does the Radar Deprivation Module work? Specifically how does it interact with Advanced Target Decay? Does it completely override it?

Hopefully it works like this:

Default target decay = 2 seconds
target decay w/ radar deprivation on enemy = 0 seconds
target decay w/ adv target decay equipped = 3.5 seconds
target decay w/ adv target decay equipped AND radar deprivation on enemy = 1.5 seconds

[Reitrix]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

How does the Radar Deprivation Module work? Specifically how does it interact with Advanced Target Decay? Does it completely override it?

Hopefully it works like this:

Default target decay = 2 seconds
target decay w/ radar deprivation on enemy = 0 seconds
target decay w/ adv target decay equipped = 3.5 seconds
target decay w/ adv target decay equipped AND radar deprivation on enemy = 1.5 seconds

That would be ideal i think. limits the effectiveness of another Module rather than eliminates it.
Then again, I'd prefer if the extra lock time granted by Adv Target Decay was given only to the 'Mech with said Module, rather than everyone in the match. But for that they'd need to work out how to give a lock without sharing it.

[Lynx7725]

I think the scuttlebutt is hard counter against Target Decay.

But bear in mind, it's if the Target is totally hidden from LOS from all teammates. I think -- and it's my understanding only! -- if someone with the Radar Deprivation Module ducks out of LOS from Team Member A, but Team Member B still has LOS to the Target, Team Member A still receive telemetry from Team Member B, and happily retains the lock on the Target.

[Lynx7725]

More critical is, how does the Radar Deprivation Module work with ECM, with TAG and NARC in special considerations?

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

How does the Radar Deprivation Module work? Specifically how does it interact with Advanced Target Decay? Does it completely override it?

I wouldn't mind if this module works like ECM should have worked from the beginning. But its obvious (hopefully) that there are only a couple of players that would have this module available.

[Khobai]

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I think the scuttlebutt is hard counter against Target Decay.

I seriously hope not. Because then thered literally be no reason to use adv target decay anymore. Furthermore thered be no reason not to use radar deprivation. It would make one module completely obsolete while making another module completely mandatory. Having must-have modules defeats the entire purpose of the module system.

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More critical is, how does the Radar Deprivation Module work with ECM, with TAG and NARC in special considerations?

I believe radar deprivation has zero interaction with ECM, TAG, or NARC. If youre NARCd I dont think radar deprivation will cancel out the NARC, nor should it.

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I wouldn't mind if this module works like ECM should have worked from the beginning. But its obvious (hopefully) that there are only a couple of players that would have this module available.

Everyone will be able to buy the radar deprivation module with cbills. And in fact everyone will, because theres no reason not to use it. Its just the players who bought clan packs get a special version of the module with unique visual/audio effects.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[Kyynele]

Slightly unnerving observation:

Looking at the Masakari pack info at /clans page, the 4 bonus modules coming with it include the other 4, not the Radar Deprivation module.

The Gold mech descriptions state "includes one UNIQUE bonus module." ...And the one left from the announced bonus modules: none other than Radar Deprivation.

Would be nice to get a PGI confirmation, is this module truly unique to those who buy the 500 dollar pack? Or will it be purchaseable by the rest in the game?

[Karl Streiger]

Kyynele, on 11 June 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

Would be nice to get a PGI confirmation, is this module truly unique to those who buy the 500 dollar pack? Or will it be purchaseable by the rest in the game?

Oh i really hope that PGI is taking "UNIQUE" strictly this time -

[Lynx7725]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

I seriously hope not. Because then thered literally be no reason to use adv target decay anymore. Furthermore thered be no reason not to use radar deprivation. It would make one module completely obsolete while making another module completely mandatory.

Plenty of reason for me to do so with LRMs, and some with DF weapons. Advance Decay with LRMs in direct fire mode allows me to lock and run away after launch, giving me 480m of homing missiles despite running off the minute I launched. And as long as my teammates still have LOS to the target, I still have locks even if I can't directly see the target.

DF builds might not use Advance Decay as much, but LRM boats, which traditionally has the biggest utility out of Advance Decay, would still pack it.

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

I believe Radar Deprivation has zero interaction with ECM, TAG, or NARC.

Sure it has..

Radar Deprivation Target, gets TAGged. Ducks behind cover. Still TAGged? TAG lasts 1s after hit.
Radar Deprivation Target, gets NARC'ed. Ducks behind cover. Still NARC'ed? NARC lasts 60s after podded

These two has big implications for TAG and NARC equipped units, and indirect fire.

Radar Deprivation Target with ECM, within 200m, ducks behind cover. Instant loss of target?
Radar Deprivation Target with ECM, within 120m of BAP, ducks behind cover. Instant loss of target? ECM still negated?

Last two has huge implication for sneaky ECM-equipped spotters.

[Khobai]

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Would be nice to get a PGI confirmation, is this module truly unique to those who buy the 500 dollar pack? Or will it be purchaseable by the rest in the game?

All five of the new modules will be purchaseable by cbills.

If you bought a clan pack, you get special versions of these modules, that come with unique visual/audio effects that the cbill versions dont have. The difference is purely aesthetic.

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DF builds might not use Advance Decay as much, but LRM boats, which traditionally has the biggest utility out of Advance Decay, would still pack it.

Doubtful. Since everybody using radar deprivation will make LRMs completely useless. Right now the only chance indirect LRMs have to hit is because of adv target decay. Without that anyone can just duck behind cover and all the missiles will miss. And if you have to direct fire LRMs, youre better off using any number of other direct fire weapons which are outright better.

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Radar Deprivation Target, gets TAGged. Ducks behind cover. Still TAGged? TAG lasts 1s after hit.

Tag doesnt grant LoS.So radar deprivation and TAG have no interaction.

Quote

Radar Deprivation Target, gets NARC'ed. Ducks behind cover. Still NARC'ed? NARC lasts 60s after podded

I doubt radar deprivation negates narc. Or there would be no reason to ever use narc. Because you could simply hard counter it with radar deprivation, making that module even more mandatory than it already is. So common sense says radar deprivation DOES NOT counter narc.

Quote

Radar Deprivation Target with ECM, within 200m, ducks behind cover. Instant loss of target?

Yes youd still lose the target instantly. Why would ECM change how radar deprivation works? It wouldnt. Theres no reason to think ECM and radar deprivation would have any effect on eachother.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2014 - 02:03 AM.

[Kyynele]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

Everyone will be able to buy the radar deprivation module with cbills. And in fact everyone will, because theres no reason not to use it. Its just the players who bought clan packs get a special version of the module with unique aesthetics/audio effects.

I'll take your word for it. (Source would be nice, too, just for added peace of mind)

I do imagine the P2W shitstorm would be of biblical proportions, so I'm not really surprised.

Edited by Kyynele, 11 June 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[Reptilizer]

It does not only hard counter target decay, it also hard counters 360.
Additionally it nerfs down beagle probes. Streaks will be quite useless against anyone carrying this module unless you are really out in the open and more maneuverable than your opponent.
All LRM soft cover becomes hard cover with this module.
It actually negates a whole gameplay mechanic (natural target decay)...

Ever worried about LRM locks when poptarting? Not any more! Just drop behind the ridge and the LURMs will miss.

This is a must have for Poptarts and also for any ECM light/medium.

Power to the Poptarts!!!

And if it is really unique, this is actually the first real P2W item implemented in MWO...

Edited by Reptilizer, 11 June 2014 - 02:04 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Reptilizer, on 11 June 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

It does not only hard counter target decay, it also hard counters 360.
Additionally it nerfs down beagle probes. Streaks will be quite useless against anyone carrying this module unless you are really out in the open and more maneuverable than your opponent.
All LRM soft cover becomes hard cover with this module.
It actually negates a whole gameplay mechanic (natural target decay)...

what's your source for all this?

[Khobai]

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I'll take your word for it. (Source would be nice, too, just for added peace of mind)

check the clan faq

"Q: Will the Clan modules be available to the general population who haven't purchased any Clan packages in the future?
A: Yes, you will be able to buy the exact same module without the clan package, however the visual effect will be different."

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It does not only hard counter target decay, it also hard counters 360.
Additionally it nerfs down beagle probes. Streaks will be quite useless against anyone carrying this module unless you are really out in the open and more maneuverable than your opponent.
All LRM soft cover becomes hard cover with this module.

Ever worried about LRM locks when poptarting? Not any more! Just drop behind the ridge and the LURMs will miss.

This is a must have for Poptarts and also for any ECM light/medium.

Sounds like it will be must have for EVERY mech in the game. Thats a huge problem. I was hoping this module would be at least somewhat balanced but it looks like thats not the case.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[Dracol]

One indirect benefit I see the new module will provide is a reduction of arty and airtstrikes in the public queue. With competitive teams and the current lack of LRMs at higher levels of play, my guess they will still favor a consumable over the new module in comp play.

[Khobai]

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One indirect benefit I see the new module will provide is a reduction of arty and airtstrikes in the public queue. With competitive teams and the current lack of LRMs at higher levels of play, my guess they will still favor a consumable over the new module in comp play.

Dragon Slayers get 3 module slots. I see no reason why they cant take both.

[Reptilizer]

Kilo 40, on 11 June 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

what's your source for all this?

The module description so far.
You know any better source?

As long as i do not get the stuff explained that is in game in a week, i take what i can get in writing.
I would prefer being given more detail than a picture of mediocre quality for features that are just around the corner.
But then, MWO is what it is...

[A Man In A Can]

Lynx7725, on 11 June 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

More critical is, how does the Radar Deprivation Module work with ECM, with TAG and NARC in special considerations?

Radar deprivation won't help an ECM mech much more than the ECM does already at long range. It just means against Streak and LRM mechs while ducking in and out of cover they would lose their locks quicker and more frequently.

Radar deprivation does absolutely nothing to stop the effects of TAG, Narc, UAVs, or a spotter that still has LOS. However, in all other cases, LRM users will find themselves losing locks quicker and more frequently.

[Reptilizer]

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 11 June 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Radar deprivation won't help an ECM mech much more than the ECM does already at long range. It just means against Streak and LRM mechs while ducking in and out of cover they would lose their locks quicker and more frequently.

Radar deprivation does absolutely nothing to stop the effects of TAG, Narc, UAVs, or a spotter that still has LOS. However, in all other cases, LRM users will find themselves losing locks quicker and more frequently.

"Quicker and more frequently" would imply a mechanic that tunes down the mechanic. Like: "75% faster target decay time".
As it is written now, it simply negates the whole mechanic. Like in "..will lose their locks instantaneously and always when LOS is broken for any time".

Also TAG has a lingering effect that will probably be lost and how it works with BAP on close range needs some explanation. If it is not just negating its effect as would be suggested by the module text.

Edited by Reptilizer, 11 June 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Reptilizer, on 11 June 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

The module description so far.
You know any better source?

As long as i do not get the stuff explained that is in game in a week, i take what i can get in writing.

the problem is that all those things you said wasn't in writing or in the module description.

so please, stop spreading things that you completely made up.