104 replies to this topic

[GreyGriffin]

The argument to "Just get AMS" is not terribly constructive. Right now AMS and ECM make LRMs largely useless on the battlefield on the macro level, but the screen shake and massive sight obscuring VFX make them incredibly annoying on the micro level. This is the perfect storm of an incredibly bad weapon system, and a sign that it is poorly designed all around.

LRMs and their associated mechanics such as AMS, locking, homing, tracking, and component targeting, need rebalancing, but too much screen shake is a wholly legitimate complaint.

[El Bandito]

GreyGriffin, on 21 June 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

The argument to "Just get AMS" is not terribly constructive. Right now AMS and ECM make LRMs largely useless on the battlefield on the macro level, but the screen shake and massive sight obscuring VFX make them incredibly annoying on the micro level. This is the perfect storm of an incredibly bad weapon system, and a sign that it is poorly designed all around. LRMs and their associated mechanics such as AMS, locking, homing, tracking, and component targeting, need rebalancing, but too much screen shake is a wholly legitimate complaint.

All personal perspective. I personally think there are not enough shakes for immersion. Gauss Rifle hits should tip your mech majorly, PPC hits should cause your electronics to short out, getting hit by Large Lasers across the cockpit should darken the cockpit due to cockpit glass reacting to blinding light, getting hit by dual AC20s at close range should knock down lighter mechs etc... Right now getting hit by Gauss and PPCs feel like getting hit by wet noodles.

However, I advocate the nerfing LRM impulses, instead of any other aspects of it.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 June 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[Dago Red]

Given what happens to lights whacked with double AC20's already making them get knocked over by it is too much salt in that wound. Now making them spin half around like they were cracked upside the head with a baseball bat that would be keen.

I'm not sure LRM's are that out of line with the shake but I wouldn't complain if it were losered either.

[Gambino87]

I think the shake is just fine. It helps keep fire off my spotter. Take away screen shake and there's less to protect my squishy partner =) Besides, what do you think would happen to your mech if 40-50 missiles came crashing down on it? By all rights a single slug from an AC20 should topple most mechs right over after firing it (I mean the ones firing it!) =p 2x AC20 Jager? Yeah right! lol


Not to mention, you're in a Stalker. You had that rain of LRM coming bro.

Edited by Gambino87, 21 June 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Mizeur, on 20 June 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

According to Smurfy, Jun's correct. C-LRM 10-20 have .4 impulse. All IS-LRMs and C-LRM 5s have .35 impulse.

There's also a discrepancy with the C-SRMs. All IS-SRMs are .11 impulse. Clan impulse is as follows for SRMs:

2-.19
4-.11
6-.19

All streaks are normalized at .040.

I see some discrepancies with ballistics too, but most are actually nerfs to the clan ACs. Most clan ballistics have slightly lower impulse than the IS equivalent ( comes out as being much less effective due to burst fire ) , except the AC/20s, which have 0.090 versus 0.013, meaning they should cause more shake per hit ( they fire 5 shots for 4 damage each ) than an IS AC/20, LB-X ACs all have 0.040 impulse, the same as an IS LB 10-X.
I can understand why the clan AC/20s would have been given that buff, as they have by far the slowest burst of any clan AC. In fact it's so slow I'd say this is the first time in a MechWarrior game an AC/10 is superior to an AC/20 of the same type.

[Dracol]

Second gif sequence = not just LRMs
You got lasers blinding you as well
And a mech on the left side with ACs plinking away at you.

So, nice apples to oranges comparison between the two gifs.....

[Lucky Strongarm]

El Bandito, on 21 June 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

All personal perspective. I personally think there are not enough shakes for immersion. Gauss Rifle hits should tip your mech majorly, PPC hits should cause your electronics to short out, getting hit by Large Lasers across the cockpit should darken the cockpit due to cockpit glass reacting to blinding light, getting hit by dual AC20s at close range should knock down lighter mechs etc... Right now getting hit by Gauss and PPCs feel like getting hit by wet noodles.

However, I advocate the nerfing LRM impulses, instead of any other aspects of it.

I'm all for adding similar real physics effects like the one's you've mentioned. I'd love to be able to send a light mech hurling off a cliff with an AC20 round to the leg. And, I'm totally fine with learning to pilot around those types of immersive effects. But, for some reason, the LRM shake just feels really excessive at this point.

[RedAnxiety]

Gambino87, on 21 June 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer!

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

I remeber when the IS missle had that much smoke and shake. Then all you nerf herders had that destroyed. Now I laugh to see it back in the clan missles. HA!

[ztac]

Forget all the how to avoid LRM suggestions.. the only one that actually works is....

Being out of range or being shot at by someone that cant use LRM properly! All they have done really is turn MechWarrior into missile warrior and a lot of people wont even advance now unless you can skip between buildings or hills...

In effect if there was ever an open warfare map no one would actually try to engage , sure people would skip into range to fire LRM's but that would just about be it. More to the point why is there no open warfare map? surely every last planet in the inner sphere is not full of mountains / hills or city's?

footnote :- in one game I had 3k ams rounds .. all gone in the first 3 minutes! so adding ams modules will probably just deplete your ammo faster probably , might be many counters , but do they actually work? been in a mech group with 5 ams fitted mechs and still the rain of death gets through!

[El Bandito]

Jun Watarase, on 20 June 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

I think PGI gave clan LRMs extra large explosion effects....

This should happen to any mech that is in the open and is under multiple mech fire. Just go watch the MW4 intro.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 June 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[GreyGriffin]

Echo535, on 21 June 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer!

Too late!

[Biaxialrain]

That's right OP, glad you posted this as I've mentioned it before without illustrating it.

Another example of Clan tech being OP.

[Vassago Rain]

Let's go back. Back to 2012.

[Wolfways]

ztac, on 21 June 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

footnote :- in one game I had 3k ams rounds .. all gone in the first 3 minutes! so adding ams modules will probably just deplete your ammo faster probably , might be many counters , but do they actually work? been in a mech group with 5 ams fitted mechs and still the rain of death gets through!

AMS are designed to reduce damage from a launcher, not boated LRM's. Why are they boated more? Because players whined enough to get more countermeasures instead of learning to counter them with terrain, which forces players to boat even more LRM's to get though the countermeasures...

[Mystere]

Jun Watarase, on 20 June 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

I Thought Mwo Wasn't Supposed To Be A Earthquake Simulator

I have been in enough earthquakes to know that they're not even the same.

Besides, using exaggerations and bad analogies do not really help bolster your -- or anyone else's -- arguments.

Here's an experiment for you to see if LRM explosions feel like earthquakes. Unpin a grenade, put it in your shirt pocket, and wait for a few seconds until it detonates.

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Sephlock]

GreyGriffin, on 21 June 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Getting hit by massive screen blur and having your view turned into a giant cloud of smoke and fire while being continuously hammered by LRM 5's is not a positive gameplay experience.

Getting shot shouldn't be a rewarding experience, even in a game...

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 21 June 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

However, I advocate the nerfing LRM impulses, instead of any other aspects of it.

And I advocate for adjusting the impulse of everything else. As you yourself said:

El Bandito, on 21 June 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Right now getting hit by Gauss and PPCs feel like getting hit by wet noodles.

I think adding more ways for players to suppress their enemy is a good thing. It's definitely much better than reducing them.

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 21 June 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

And I advocate for adjusting the impulse of everything else. As you yourself said:


I think adding more ways for players to suppress their enemy is a good thing. It's definitely much better than reducing them.

As much as I'd like more immersion, the QQs will drown out the forums from day one. "ZOMG poptart meta now has shakes! I QUIT!!" etc...

PGI is mollycoddling the generic FPS crowd, instead of breeding real mechwarriors.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 June 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[Mystere]

ztac, on 21 June 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

In effect if there was ever an open warfare map no one would actually try to engage , sure people would skip into range to fire LRM's but that would just about be it.

Give me several smoke rounds and HUD disruption effects from PPCs. Couple those with ECM coverage and I'm good to go.