104 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Sephlock, on 21 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

YES!

As you wish:

[Koniving]

Shakespeare, on 21 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

incidentally, that brawl looked way more fun than what I'm used to now.

I wonder what moved us away from that sort of furball? Was it the jumping assaults? The working PPCs? ECM? Seismic?

Complaints of motion sickness.

And removal of delayed convergence.

That led to the jump snipers, long range fighting, etc.

[Adiuvo]

Mystere, on 21 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

What is so wrong about including a bit of combat realism in a video game about -- ahem -- combat?

Real combat isn't fun. I like my video games to be fun.

Sephlock, on 21 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

The point is not to establish a logical chain, but rather for him to get what he wants at the expense of everyone else (including himself, although he doesn't realize it).

lol.

You still never said why removing vision near entirely is a good thing.

[Sephlock]

Adiuvo, on 21 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Real combat isn't fun. I like my video games to be fun.

lol.

You still never said why removing vision near entirely is a good thing.

"Near entirely".

Again, ignoring the whole "having the human capacity to remember where things are, to see where things are, to realize that although your vision is shaking, your actual point of aim is not", the crosshairs turning red, etc etc etc etc...

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 21 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Real combat isn't fun. I like my video games to be fun.

But I like video games with some combat realism, suppressive fire being one of them.

[Adiuvo]

Sephlock, on 21 June 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

"Near entirely".

Again, ignoring the whole "having the human capacity to remember where things are, to see where things are, to realize that although your vision is shaking, your actual point of aim is not", the crosshairs turning red, etc etc etc etc...

I already said why this isn't the case.

Quote

What you're suggesting is alpha'ing them in the face. Very useful. Due to the degree of visual distractions LRMs produce you have no idea of the orientation of the enemy mechs, if they're shielding, what side is present to you, how much to lead, etc.. 'Piloting skill' doesn't fix this. You need vision of the enemy to make these assessments.

Mystere, on 21 June 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

But I like video games with some combat realism, suppressive fire being one of them.

Oh well yeah, some is good. I don't want cockpit shake and the other visual elements gone entirely. Just toned down.

[Dymlos2003]

You know what is missing more blur and HUD flicker. We need that.

[Jun Watarase]

Unsurprisingly a good part of the thread is non-constructive "learn2play" spam. Props to people who actually attempted to explain why permanent blinding and stun locking are not good game mechanics...

Can someone please explain why LRMs generate more impulse (screen shake) than an AC20?

[Joseph Mallan]

Jun Watarase, on 20 June 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

Then why do they have more impulse (cockpit shake) than AC20s, in addition to the giant balls of fires obscuring your cockpit?


IS LRMs :



Clan LRMs :



I think PGI gave clan LRMs extra large explosion effects....

Yes cause being hit with multiple explosives shouldn't shake us up!

AC20 is a Depleted Uranium Penetrator which punches a hole in your armor... LRMs are explosive laden missiles which EXPLODE on contact. ACs Impact only, LRMs Impact PLUS explosion. More shake n bake.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 June 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 June 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Well, don't get caught out of position and kill/chase off any spotters you see. I probably die to LRMs 1 time for every 9 direct fire deaths, so I don't see it as an issue. I don't even carry AMS on my mechs (unless they have 2 or more AMS hardpoints).

personally i hate when pilots do this because i rock ams on every mech. when im covering you with my ams because you dont want to devote 2 slots and 1.5 tons to ams (can even be 1 ton now with 1/2 ammo loads). just remember its your team that helps you win.

[Turboferret]

Basically, screen shake takes away agency, and that isn't fun.

LRMs should not take away agency (consider the flamer, something else that takes away options, and how intentionally terrible it is).

The LRM screen-shake needs to go, if you believe that would make the LRMs underpowered, you can buff some other aspect of it, but the screen shake isn't fun for the player getting hit, and it's not even really "fun" for the player shooting either, which makes it a bad mechanic.

[Roland]

Personally, I like the idea of weapons knock...

What I don't like is motion blur. it's not necessary.

Also, I would limit knock to weapons which require aiming, and not allow guided weapons to create significant knock, as allowing that precludes the target from really retaliating at all.

Allowing juggle with direct fire ballistics is a good thing though.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Personally, I like the idea of weapons knock...

What I don't like is motion blur. it's not necessary.

Also, I would limit knock to weapons which require aiming, and not allow guided weapons to create significant knock, as allowing that precludes the target from really retaliating at all.

Allowing juggle with direct fire ballistics is a good thing though.

But the guided weapons are High Explosive and thus would shake you more than ballistic impact alone.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Kilo 40, on 21 June 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

learn to use cover cry baby

hiding behind rocks playing "peek a boo" for 15 minutes is not mechwarrior. get with it. im sick of this "L2C" BS. if im rocking my horse archer no amount of cover is gonna stop me from laying my lrm5/5/5/5+art+1200+rnds at 120KPH up your mechs tailpipe. my orion with 10/10/15/15+art all in the arms lets me shoot over crap that you wouldn't even imagine. lets me skip my lrms across the ground for tunnels and caves. there is real skill involved in lrms but there is no skill in hiding behind a rock playing peek a boo.

i get some of my highest scores in horse archers and its from idiots that are thinking "im gonna hide behind this rock... peek out shoot once then hide again and hope that fast moving med doesn't get some LOS on me". i will get LOS i will just hammer you into dust then drink your sweet tears.

cover doesn't save you from LRMS. hiding behind rocks and peeking out to shoot is the most scrubby inane behavior i have ever seen. you try that (#$&*(#& in CS and someone tosses a nade around the corner with perfect bounce. MOVE YOUR ASS AND DON'T $(*$&($& hide the whole ($#&%(* #& match. its pilots like that that ruin this game because you cannot push, or flank or use any tactics besides "peek a boo" when 6+ of your team is nothing but "peek a boo" mechs.

i say "push" they peek out one at a time each shoot once, most get cremated from focus fire then fall back and let the charging brawlers die with no cover fire. L2P noob. and until you do i will enjoy archering you to death from 500M in a med that you will never catch or even get to shoot back at half of the time.

also stop gimping your team by playing an assault that cant tank or push. yes assaults should have long range weapons but there is no reason that heavies and med should be the front line mechs unless the assaults are chugging right behind them bringin the knockout punch. STOP playing assault if you don't know how to push or tank for your team. you are hurting them and forcing smaller mechs to DO YOUR JOB.

Edited by Mellifluer, 23 June 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mellifluer, on 23 June 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

hiding behind rocks playing "peek a boo" for 15 minutes is not mechwarrior. get with it. im sick of this "L2C" BS. if im rocking my horse archer no amount of cover is gonna stop me from laying my lrm5/5/5/5+art+1200+rnds at 120KPH up your mechs tailpipe. my orion with 10/10/15/15+art all in the arms lets me shoot over crap that you wouldn't even imagine. lets me skip my lrms across the ground for tunnels and caves. there is real skill involved in lrms but there is no skill in hiding behind a rock playing peek a boo.

i get some of my highest scores in horse archers and its from idiots that are thinking "im gonna hide behind this rock... peek out shoot once then hide again and hope that fast moving med doesn't get some LOS on me". i will get LOS i will just hammer you into dust then drink your sweet tears.

cover doesn't save you from LRMS. hiding behind rocks and peeking out to shoot is the most scrubby inane behavior i have ever seen. you try that (#$&*(#& in CS and someone tosses a nade around the corner with perfect bounce. MOVE YOUR ASS AND DON'T $(*$&($& hide the whole ($#&%(* #& match. its pilots like that that ruin this game because you cannot push, or flank or use any tactics besides "peek a boo" when 6+ of your team is nothing but "peek a boo" mechs.

i say "push" they peek out one at a time each shoot once, most get cremated from focus fire then fall back and let the charging brawlers die with no cover fire. L2P noob. and until you do i will enjoy archering you to death from 500M in a med that you will never catch or even get to shoot back at half of the time.

also stop gimping your team by playing an assault that cant tank or push. yes assaults should have long range weapons but there is no reason that heavies and med should be the front line mechs unless the assaults are right chugging right behind them bringin the knockout punch. STOP playing assault if you don't know how to push or tank for your team. you are hurting them and forcing smaller mechs to DO YOUR JOB.

You wanna play Combat, but don't like simulating combat? This confuses me!

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 June 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

But the guided weapons are High Explosive and thus would shake you more than ballistic impact alone.

Yes, but it's bad from a gameplay perspective.

Against a mech which is using direct fire, I can potentially land a shot on him and generate knock to break out of the knock-lock he's got me in.

Against an LRM mech, there's effectively no way I can throw off his chain of missiles, because he only needs to keep his reticle vaguely over my mech to continue the chain.


Also, while the missiles are high explosives, individually they're quite small compared to the rounds impacting from ballistic weapons... so they really should have trivial knock compared to them.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Yes, but it's bad from a gameplay perspective.

Against a mech which is using direct fire, I can potentially land a shot on him and generate knock to break out of the knock-lock he's got me in.

Against an LRM mech, there's effectively no way I can throw off his chain of missiles, because he only needs to keep his reticle vaguely over my mech to continue the chain.


Also, while the missiles are high explosives, individually they're quite small compared to the rounds impacting from ballistic weapons... so they really should have trivial knock compared to them.

How many times are you hit by an individual missile though Rol? When I see em hitting they are hitting in groups/wave/storms. I don't argue we should have more impact from ACs but Missiles have impact AND explosions making for two times the shaking.

[Pjwned]

Sephlock, on 21 June 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

First they came for the LRMs, but you didn't say anything because you didn't like them.

Then they came for the Autocannons, but you didn't say anything because you hate fun.

Then they came for the PPCs, and there was no one left to say anything because you ruined the game and everyone left.

You heard it here first, lowering LRM impulse is the first step to RUINING THE GAME OH MY GOD.

[Roland]

Ultimately, the reality doesn't really matter. Allowing someone to knock-lock you just by holding down a button is not a good gameplay mechanic.

As I said, using actual aimed weapons to juggle a target is ok.. because such a thing requires skill, and can be broken out of. But chainfired missiles simply require that you run to cover. It's not beneficial to the game.

[Green Mamba]

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