215 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Papaspud, on 21 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Yes, because no one ever gets flanked and shot from the back, everybody is a perfect pilot, nobody ever looks over a hill, and clan mechs aren't a little too strong. They are going to be the death of this game as it divides the haves and the have nots. The bright side for the clanners..... soon they wont have to worry about many IS mechs, because most people that play them will quit. Have fun, until it starts taking 10 minutes to find a match, because everybody has decided they don't want to be a target.

If you like hide warrior online, well then IS mechs are perfect, if you want to actually fight back in the game- not just trying to get a shot off, then have to run and hide...... get a clan mech. It really isn't any fun to consistently get killed every time you move out of cover for 30 seconds, just way too much firepower.

I have already noticed that lights and mediums are disappearing from the battlefield, they just can't absorb the damage the clan mechs can dish out. Last night there was more assaults or heavies than meds and lights combined, it was that way most of the evening.

...and to prove my point

[MechWarrior849305]

Oh noes, not this again... Nerf Clans anyway . Make Daishi twisting speed twice slower as it is now, I have hard time sleeping while I'm eating it alive in a jenner.

[Bishop Steiner]

Papaspud, on 21 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Yes, because no one ever gets flanked and shot from the back, everybody is a perfect pilot, nobody ever looks over a hill, and clan mechs aren't a little too strong. They are going to be the death of this game as it divides the haves and the have nots. The bright side for the clanners..... soon they wont have to worry about many IS mechs, because most people that play them will quit. Have fun, until it starts taking 10 minutes to find a match, because everybody has decided they don't want to be a target.

If you like hide warrior online, well then IS mechs are perfect, if you want to actually fight back in the game- not just trying to get a shot off, then have to run and hide...... get a clan mech. It really isn't any fun to consistently get killed every time you move out of cover for 30 seconds, just way too much firepower.

I have already noticed that lights and mediums are disappearing from the battlefield, they just can't absorb the damage the clan mechs can dish out. Last night there was more assaults or heavies than meds and lights combined, it was that way most of the evening.

If you think you should be able to stand out in the open and slug it out, you have been playing the game wrong, period. That has generally been accepted as a BAD doctrine by militaries around the world since at least the American Civil War.

Now if you are referring to basic military concepts like "cover" or "defilade", then yes indeed, that is exactly what this game should be catering to.


And you are further proving your disconnect from reality, as Clan MEchs, being DoT weaponry, and the big boys, totally immobile, whilst their Lights are slow as sin, re singularly poor against Inner Sphere Light mechs. Poptarts and the attendant Inner Sphere Meta is what has been driving off Lights and Mediums, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 June 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[Torgun]

Well I'd toss my medium lasers on my 4SP in the garbage bin for 5 C-ER MedLasers in a heartbeat. 30% longer burn time but 40% more damage and with the same range as the IS Large Lasers? And both are the same weight at 1ton? I'll gladly take that 1 heat extra please!

Edited by Torgun, 21 June 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[CaptainDeez]

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Plus I'm curious to see how many "Flaming Locky" award winners we will see?

Flaming Locky award. I like it lol.

Although i have dropped with them both recently and i did get to see their point of view....not for long, but for almost a minute at least

[Armored Yokai]

Some people are actually really immature or just have boogers for brains,
they brag while winning yet whine OP when they start losing.

[Thunder Child]

Sorry Papaspud, but lights and mediums have been disappearing for long before the Clan stuff was due. They can't mount enough PPCs/AC5s (PPC/Gauss, previously). PP FLD has ALWAYS been the death of Mediums, and the recent HSR fixes have made Lights an endangered species too. But, as an Inner Sphere light pilot, you know what I fear most? Innersphere Weapons. As a Clan Light Pilot, you know what I fear most? Innersphere weapons. Because all the ACs are "BAM, you're Dead". At least Clan Tech gives you a chance to survive as it rattles all over your chassis. The trick is to play Inner Sphere mechs the way they fought during the Invasion, hit and fade. We have superior speed to the Clan chassis, even if we only have the same armor. But because ALL of our weapons have a much shorter damage time, we can get shots off, and disappear, before the Clanners have a chance to do too much damage.

[ScarecrowES]

Torgun, on 21 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well I'd toss my medium lasers on my 4SP in the garbage bin for 5 C-ER MedLasers in a heartbeat. 30% longer burn time but 40% more damage and with the same range as the IS Large Lasers? And both are the same weight at 1ton? I'll gladly take that 1 heat extra please!

Meh, longer burn times and significantly less damage per tick... great if you can hold your laser on a single component for full duration... not great otherwise. Pluses and minuses my friend. If you're already good with lasers, you'll probably like clan tech. If not, you'll probably do worse.

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 21 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well I'd toss my medium lasers on my 4SP in the garbage bin for 5 C-ER MedLasers in a heartbeat. 30% longer burn time but 40% more damage and with the same range as the IS Large Lasers? And both are the same weight at 1ton? I'll gladly take that 1 heat extra please!

On the surface it looks great, but it is also a tale of diminishing returns.

Over the same 1 second your Mlaser fires, the Clan Er Medium does essentially the same damage. And realistically, you are only going to get that extra 40% damage scored on crucial components cvs shut down or bad pilots.

For that you also are now paying an additional heat tax, and that adds up, fast.


Mind you, I have also though long argued that the IS Medium needs to return to it's correct 3 Heat, which would then make the tradeoffs in this a no brainer.

CaptainDeez, on 21 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

I hear you love to watch them.

Armored Yokai, on 21 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Some people are actually really immature or just have boogers for brains,
they brag while winning yet whine OP when they start losing.

Yes. Yes they do.


Unfortunately by the amount of Forum QQ by certain users, over the astonishing variety of subjects, I must assume that they cannot be doing a lot of bragging.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

On the surface it looks great, but it is also a tale of diminishing returns.

Over the same 1 second your Mlaser fires, the Clan Er Medium does essentially the same damage. And realistically, you are only going to get that extra 40% damage scored on crucial components cvs shut down or bad pilots.

For that you also are now paying an additional heat tax, and that adds up, fast.


Mind you, I have also though long argued that the IS Medium needs to return to it's correct 3 Heat, which would then make the tradeoffs in this a no brainer.


I hear you love to watch them.

Even if I break off at 1s and shot the last 0.3s into the ground, I'd still do a little more damage than the ML. As I said, 30% longer burn time but 40% more damage. And yet again, at large laser range for 1 heat. I think C-ER Med is a winner for sure. At 3 heat ML would make more sense in comparison, heck I'd settle for 3.5 heat.

[Transcendence]

This is it in a nutshell. Once I started hugging cover, moving smartly and with the pack, and not outright Rambo charging the enemy, my survivability increased drastically. As did my damage output. Most people scream clans are op, without acknowledging that their playstyle is contributing to their demise way more than clan tech.

Hell, if anything, clan mechs are way easier to kill, since they generally carry less armor.

[Thunder Child]

Circle Jerk, isn't that the term for IS Light mechs running around (insert Assault Mech here).
Which is no longer needed, becasue the Daishi is so slow, my STD 200 Hunchback can stay behind it (GETTING behind it is the hard part, but once I'm there, as long as a T-wolf doesn't drive me off, that poor Daishi just has to take my oversized cannon. Take it good....)

They don't carry less armor Transcendence. They just have some really Awesome Hitboxes. The Daishi and Masakari are Prime examples of this. You can barely MISS the CT's on those things.

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 21 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Even if I break off at 1s and shot the last 0.3s into the ground, I'd still do a little more damage than the ML. As I said, 30% longer burn time but 40% more damage. And yet again, at large laser range for 1 heat. I think C-ER Med is a winner for sure. At 3 heat ML would make more sense in comparison, heck I'd settle for 3.5 heat.

is that extra worth 20% more heat per gun? especially as it multiplies per gun? (Also since ALL Clan Laser get Ghost Heat). As I said, they are not perfectly balanced, but they are hardly massively OP, either. And if they were to bring the Medium Laser where ti should be, it would be a noticeable balance trade off, more range, potentially more damage, or substantially less heat.

A big part of what so many people crying about Clan Tech miss...is the big picture and how it all fits together.

Transcendence, on 21 June 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

This is it in a nutshell. Once I started hugging cover, moving smartly and with the pack, and not outright Rambo charging the enemy, my survivability increased drastically. As did my damage output. Most people scream clans are op, without acknowledging that their playstyle is contributing to their demise way more than clan tech.

Hell, if anything, clan mechs are way easier to kill, since they generally carry less armor.

And also seldom have great hitboxes.

[Thunder Child]

I will concede that the "Ears" on the T-wolf didn't turn out anywhere nearly as badly as people were afraid they would. And they still look okay, with a 15 or 20 in them. They look a bit weird with anything smaller though.

[CaptainDeez]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

I hear you love to watch them.

I would have bookmarked this thread if I did.

[Thorqemada]

Or you put 2x Gauss + 2x ERPPC (+ 2x LRM10 optional) on your Clan Mech and be as OP as possible...

[Bishop Steiner]

CaptainDeez, on 21 June 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

I would have bookmarked this thread if I did.

you really need to try harder, and be a little more original if you want to be a Flaming Locky Award finalist!

C'mon big guy! Give it a whirl! Or is this thread too OP for you to handle like the game is, apparently?

[Grey Black]

To the OP:
What is done is the differentiation of Clan versus Inner Sphere. Where the Inner Sphere is better at hit/run tactics (see all of the Raven 3Ls running around lately), the Clans feel much more like stand-up fighters. The Clan weapons very much feel, to me, like they were designed by people who stand around in open fields shooting each other with very little cover around, hence increased damage at the expense of time. Comparatively, the Inner Sphere is very much focused on _not_ losing your mech, so fire off a quick shot and git. Sure, the tech may not deal the same massive damage, but you can survive longer by not showing yourself very long, lending to guerilla tactics (e.g. poptarting).

HOWEVER, I do feel that the pay mechanics should also reflect Clan culture (i.e. not just Trial focused weapons). I feel that Clan mechs need to be paid on a different scale; instead of focusing on damage, it should be efficiency (kills:damage ratio, for example), and encourage solo tactics rather than wolf-packing. That, in and of itself, will be a HUGE nerf to Clan tech. If people aren't getting paid well in their Timber Wolves, perhaps they'll change their tactics so they do start making money.

EDIT: BEFORE SOMEONE SAYS IT!

Yes, I know this won't effectively nerf Clan tech for competitive play, but it will nerf things sufficiently for Community Warfare (I assume; it's still kinda hazy, but it sounds like Clan tech will be limited to Clan units and IS tech will be restricted to IS units). At the highest level of competitive play, I do expect to see some very good IS mechs combined with Clan mechs (assuming tournaments will allow mixtech), as Clan lights are heavily outmatched by IS lights in terms of maneuverability, which is key for a light's survival.

Edited by Grey Black, 21 June 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Duran Vancor]

Awesomes, Orions, Dragons and Hunchbacks have been ruling the meta for far too long. 9 medium lasers on the Hunchback are ridiculous. The Nova with his 12 mediums, 4 machine guns and jumpjets can barely keep up with that beastly Innersphere medium every competitive team brings 100% of the time.

Those overpowered mechs finally have some competition with the perfectly balanced Timberwolf or Summoner.