19 replies to this topic

[Fnord Asteroid]

Is it true that the better I do as a PUG player, the more likely I am to be put on teams with lower skilled players? (i just got my w/l to even, and am sooo close to a positive KD, both after much clawing, scraping, and bleeding)

I know those numbers mean little, but it's how I am challenging myself.

I only ask about the MM so that I can try and mitigate the pangs of anguish I experience at some loses, hopefully also preventing me from inserting my foot so squarely in my mouth via chat as I sometimes do when the beat downs come.

[Egomane]

No, that is not true. It is an often repeated rumor only based on confirmation bias.

The matchmake will currently try to match you with 23 equally skilled players. The longer he is searching the bigger the allowed bracket gets. So as long as you are not at the top or the bottom of the Elo chain, there is always the possibility to be matched against better or worse opponents, but usually they are not far from your own Elo value.

Also, we will get a new matchmaker shortly. My current estimate is the July 1st patch.

Edited by Egomane, 22 June 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[Abivard]

well, yes to a certain extent.

After all, right now you are a starting player, very few players are worse than you, as you get better, more and more players will be worse than you. You will still be matched with the same people in the future as you are being matched with now.

[Modo44]

ChromeDaedalus, on 22 June 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Is it true that the better I do as a PUG player, the more likely I am to be put on teams with lower skilled players?

Not directly, but it can be like that. Team Elo values are averaged, so getting better means -- to a certain extent -- learning to carry hard. The matching gets worse as you get better (fewer people of your skill) and the player pool gets diluted (at certain hours, generally outside of US prime time).

Note that we do not know actual Elo values, nor how quickly they converge, exactly. Unless you see very consistent results, it is hard to tell "ggmatchmaker" from a genuine random loss. Remember that people derp/get lucky regardless of skill.

Edited by Modo44, 22 June 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Fnord Asteroid]

Sounds good, thanks all.

[Bront]

Egomane, on 22 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Also, we will get a new matchmaker shortly. My current estimate is the July 1st patch.

That's probably optemistic. I think it will be no earlier than the July 15th patch, just so they can put it though some extra testing and avoid what's happened the past few patches (gamebreakingly broken at times).

[Ghogiel]

Not really. But yea.

It *tries* to match everyone pulled into a match to the target Elo of said match, it doesn't try to screw you there, it tries to screw you in that being solo you are always picked after premades to fill in gaps on the on going team selection. which means you are more likely to be further away from the target Elo of the match you get selected for. The higher your rating the closer you are to an end of the spectrum, which forces the disparity into the only possible direction> and it ain't higher than your own.

Edited by Ghogiel, 22 June 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Lets see, matchmaker.

If I am in bravo. OK decently cool match occasional stomp.

If I am in charlie. Might be a hard fight. As long as I do not go do charlie things. Like pour into epsi unsupported on terra therma. I should be good.

If I am in alpha. And am not in a four man... Well.... I 'should' get a bunch of kills and high damage. But winning unless 'I DO THAT' Well that is problematic at best.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 22 June 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Motroid]

Goal of the MM and the ELO system is to even out everyones win/loss ratio.
That's the maximum amount of overall customer satisfaction as well...
I've experienced way more than 10k matches and it evens out at the end everytime. You go up in ELO (50 points max per match) and get worse teammembers until your ELO drops and suddenly you will find yourself teamed with better players until...you get the point.
Yeah, confirmation bias...sure.

[Tim East]

sneeking, on 22 June 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

we need a new one, some of the ridiculous teams its put me on are laughable.

like putting my ddc into a 3 ddc lance or building an almost all light team with loads of ravens and pitting it against heavy and assult.
all too often one team gets all the lrm or all the ecm its crazy.

I've seen some of the ridiculous ones turn around and win. It's crazy fun to get mostly light pilots against assaults and fight in these 130 kph blobs of death. I imagine the other team going, "Wow, they have a lot of li-oh god they're everywhere!"

[Dragonfett]

Who here thinks that we should at least be able to view our ELO value on our profiles?

[Charronn]

I was in alpha most of the day (solo) yesterday,Had some great games and some bad ones (due to me getting caught out being over aggressive) but I prefer to be in Bravo tbh.I just like being the grey man.

[ImperialKnight]

ChromeDaedalus, on 22 June 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Is it true that the better I do as a PUG player, the more likely I am to be put on teams with lower skilled players? (i just got my w/l to even, and am sooo close to a positive KD, both after much clawing, scraping, and bleeding)

I know those numbers mean little, but it's how I am challenging myself.

I only ask about the MM so that I can try and mitigate the pangs of anguish I experience at some loses, hopefully also preventing me from inserting my foot so squarely in my mouth via chat as I sometimes do when the beat downs come.

wait till you go even higher. you'll get stacked with the most cowardly bunch of people you've ever met who can't shoot the CT of an Atlas at 100m to save their lives.

I've had half the team collectively running AWAY from the fight and some of them are like 90% health Atlas/Stalkers.

[Ghogiel]

knightsljx, on 23 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

wait till you go even higher. you'll get stacked with the most cowardly bunch of people you've ever met who can't shoot the CT of an Atlas at 100m to save their lives.

I've had half the team collectively running AWAY from the fight and some of them are like 90% health Atlas/Stalkers.

Wait until you get even higher, during peak time every game is 2-6 tourney premades having practice time in 4 mans. Bring your meta and premade or go home.

[Fnord Asteroid]

knightsljx, on 23 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

wait till you go even higher. you'll get stacked with the most cowardly bunch of people you've ever met who can't shoot the CT of an Atlas at 100m to save their lives.

I've had half the team collectively running AWAY from the fight and some of them are like 90% health Atlas/Stalkers.

That's the sort of stuff I am seeing. I'm not the best of the best (i did rank in the top 100 in that house tourney we just had, yea me!), but some things I see just defy logic. Leaving a tough battle to go 'help' on a different front, or like you say, flat out running away. My favorite is when players hide for the whole battle, and then when it comes to crunch time, the match hanging on a moment... painful fails.

Fortunately most battles don't go that way. It seems to be like Modo44 said. I will have to learn to carry harder if I want to keep advancing when the MM decides its time to even out my w/l. (or whatever it is that is going on)


Thanks again everyone for the feedback. Very helpful.

Ghogiel, on 23 June 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Wait until you get even higher, during peak time every game is 2-6 tourney premades having practice time in 4 mans. Bring your meta and premade or go home.

...and that **** sounds terrible.

[maniacos]

Egomane, on 22 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

The matchmake will currently try to match you with 23 equally skilled players. The longer he is searching the bigger the allowed bracket gets. So as long as you are not at the top or the bottom of the Elo chain, there is always the possibility to be matched against better or worse opponents, but usually they are not far from your own Elo value.

However all too often it feels like something is trying to get your ELO down again. You been doing good, made a few winning matches and then you find yourself on the loser train again. If it been only 1 or 2 matches, well that happens but the frequency nurture doubts...

Egomane, on 22 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Also, we will get a new matchmaker shortly. My current estimate is the July 1st patch.

Let's hope the best then.

Motroid, on 22 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

Goal of the MM and the ELO system is to even out everyones win/loss ratio.
That's the maximum amount of overall customer satisfaction as well...
I've experienced way more than 10k matches and it evens out at the end everytime. You go up in ELO (50 points max per match) and get worse teammembers until your ELO drops and suddenly you will find yourself teamed with better players until...you get the point.
Yeah, confirmation bias...sure.

This is what I feel too...

[Fnord Asteroid]

Yeah, still pretty sure MM is using me as fodder.

[Alaskan Nobody]

ChromeDaedalus, on 24 June 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Yeah, still pretty sure MM is using me as fodder.

Some games I am the carrier
Some games I am the fodder

[Fnord Asteroid]

I'm not so sure.

In the end, I can do nothing but fight as hard as I can, every drop.

[PhoenixFire55]

ChromeDaedalus, on 23 June 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

...and that **** sounds terrible.

Just keep in mind that it is just as terrible for people in those same 'tourney premades'. They'd want to play Hunchies and Awesomes too, but they simply can't. Because its either you bring meta, or you get stomped. All in all, the better you are in this game, the less fun it is.