65 replies to this topic

[Eric Generic]

The sheer volume of lrms used per match proves your point to be null. Have somebody spot for you. Or better yet, get a setup that requires some level of skill instead of QQing because there's a module that reduces how effective the easy button is.

[Gattsus]

It's so funny "skill" "l2p".
It's either click and drag (i.e. lasers) or drag and click (i.e. missiles)

Although I'm not against a nerf to locking. It's a bit too harsh to lose all tracking because of not having LOS.

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I am not saying remove Radar Dep. I am just saying it should have a weakness itself like everything else in MWO. It shouldn't have total immunity from everything.

You see in Battletech LRMs are fire-and-forget. The targeting system is carried on the missile not the Mech, so once locked-on they should never lose that lock. The addition of Radar Dep with no counter measure is over-powered.

A good example of Radar Dep's OP'ness and immunity comes to mind. You can lock a jump-jetting poptart mech with TAG, BAP, Artemis, and Advanced Target Decay and before the LRMs arrive the missile lock is lost and the LRMs wasted. Not only is that not balanced, but it removes the best counter-attack teams had to fight jump-jet snipers. So expect even more poptarts.

I agree with him, though I'm not so sure about even more poptarts. Is that possible?

[Mad Strike]

How curious , i still see a loooooooooot of LRMs flying out there , your point is null.

[Silverlance]

So much cry. So much whine. It's a real shame that as a missile noob you actually have to work for your stuff isn't it? Nah. Upset that when you expose yourself to get a direct LoS on your missile boat target that the enemy team shoots back? I'm appalled! Nah. My Stormcrows all have their own Radar Deprivation module. They also have AMS overload and made it to where they can each carry an AMS with at least two tons of ammo. Does that rustle your jimmies?

Tell you what. Add me in game. I'll remove those modules. Take your best and heaviest loaded missile boat. And I'll still beat the snot out of you without those modules.

Just like the death of poptarters getting nearer and nearer. Missile nobs complain every day about radar dep and I love it. It actually forces you to not be an easy mode mech. It forces you to actually you know, PLAY and WORK for your score. And it forces you into my crosshairs that much better since you can't hillhump going clickclickclick all day and thinking you're awesome.

Cry more please. Your tears are marvelous.

[LongJohnSilver]

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I am not saying remove Radar Dep. I am just saying it should have a weakness itself like everything else in MWO. It shouldn't have total immunity from everything.

You see in Battletech LRMs are fire-and-forget. The targeting system is carried on the missile not the Mech, so once locked-on they should never lose that lock. The addition of Radar Dep with no counter measure is over-powered.

A good example of Radar Dep's OP'ness and immunity comes to mind. You can lock a jump-jetting poptart mech with TAG, BAP, Artemis, and Advanced Target Decay and before the LRMs arrive the missile lock is lost and the LRMs wasted. Not only is that not balanced, but it removes the best counter-attack teams had to fight jump-jet snipers. So expect even more poptarts.

Except in Tabletop indirect fire with LRM's is very difficult.....

[Latorque]

Hm - this module brought me back into the game; who'd have thought.

I detested the speed increase of the LRMs; but after adding RDM into my Flame i'm squeaking with joy whenever a >40 Salvo farts right past me after getting into cover that doesn't have to be 3 times the height of my mech. Makes a brawler build useful again. I did not think that PGI was able to actually improve on their gameplay after this godawful decision; but i was proven wrong - hope it doesn't happen again in this form; nevertheless

[ShinVector]

Latorque, on 24 June 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

Hm - this module brought me back into the game; who'd have thought.

I detested the speed increase of the LRMs; but after adding RDM into my Flame i'm squeaking with joy whenever a >40 Salvo farts right past me after getting into cover that doesn't have to be 3 times the height of my mech. Makes a brawler build useful again. I did not think that PGI was able to actually improve on their gameplay after this godawful decision; but i was proven wrong - hope it doesn't happen again in this form; nevertheless

Amazing how getting into 'Cover' to get out of LOS + Radar Derp against actually works against LRMs now ?
And no more corner bending BS from LRMs...

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I am not saying remove Radar Dep. I am just saying it should have a weakness itself like everything else in MWO. It shouldn't have total immunity from everything.

LOL... It should be simply understood and repeated numerous time before...

Let me repeat it again.

Radar Derp cannot:

• Radar Derp cannot stop a spotter from getting LOS from a different angle. The ECM light mech variety works better. The traditional secret sauce of making LRM boats devastating.. Worked since closed beta till now... Clan light with the full scouting suite have proven to be quite competent at the job.
  
• Radar Derp cannot stop spotting from a UAV. However I found that recently UAVs are very often deployed on that field nowadays.. Probably Clan Light pilots trying to get bonus UAV EXP... I am one of those always looking out for enemy UAVs and shooting them down.
  
• Radar Derp cannot stop NARC ! The new and improved LRM assisting evil from a few patches back. 30 seconds of LRM Storm of anybody that is NARCed.... Shutting down your mech does not help. Getting out of LOS does not help unless it is tall enough to block incoming LRMS.. !! ECM get shut down !!! What more do your need ?

Learn to adapt.

Edited by ShinVector, 24 June 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I am not saying remove Radar Dep. I am just saying it should have a weakness itself like everything else in MWO.

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

The addition of Radar Dep with no counter measure is over-powered.

Why aren't you complaining about Target Decay modules then? They don't have any weaknesses, nor any countermeasure.

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

It shouldn't have total immunity from everything.

It doesn't have any immunity from anything. If you see your target you can still shoot your target. Just like any other mech with any other weapon system. And if you don't ... well, surprise surprise ... you can't.

Lightfoot, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

A good example of Radar Dep's OP'ness and immunity comes to mind. You can lock a jump-jetting poptart mech with TAG, BAP, Artemis, and Advanced Target Decay and before the LRMs arrive the missile lock is lost and the LRMs wasted. Not only is that not balanced, but it removes the best counter-attack teams had to fight jump-jet snipers. So expect even more poptarts.

If you strife for balance so much, then you shouldn't ask for weapon A to be buffed into fubar level so that it can counter weapon B that is already at fubar level. LRMs were vastly overpowered prior to RD module. Now they are (possibly) more or less fine. Pinpoint FLD is an alltogether different issue.

Oh, and just fyi ... LRMs were never any counter to jumpsnipers. Only way to counter current meta is fight it within those magical 90m, which requries guts and teamwork to make a push. Both are lacking in PUGs, thats why PUGs are dominated by jumpsniper meta and LRM boating.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 24 June 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[smokefield]

radar depr. module is a needed one at the moment because :

- on clan mechs you may be forced to choose from a omni with ams and one without that you want for a specific load. you can choose the non ams one and still have some form of defence against lrms.
- it brings forward the much needed spotter and narc role...which we can see clearly lately. narc lights tripled in appearance after clan release...a good thing imo.
- it makes lrms beeing not so "easy" mode. you actually need to work, be in a good position, team play, count your salvos....not just spam lrms all over as until recently
- the module is useless if you do not know how to use it. this means again a little more skill required - good thing


...may be other arguments but this is what came in mind now..

[Latorque]

ShinVector, on 24 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Amazing how getting into 'Cover' to get out of LOS + Radar Derp against actually works against LRMs now ?
And no more corner bending BS from LRMs...

Indeed - reyling on speed and waiting for the right moment to strike was key to brawling in my eyes; it went completely downhill with the LRM speed increase.

Breaking LoS didn't help at all when a speed tweaked Dragon with 103,9kp/h was unable to reach any kind of sufficient cover fast enough; and AMS didn't help much (especially since it went *click* pretty fast with the enormous popularity of LRMs at the time). I don't have any issue with getting spotted by a light (it's his job) and getting blasted by indirect fire or exposing myself to direct LoS against an LRM-mounting Mech. In both cases i can either act against it or it was my own fault for maneuvering into an unfavorable tactical situation. But to be completely at the mercy of unending megasalvoes of LRM - "click and win" - Stalkers while being pinned down with utterly useless weapons... not an experience i want to relive .

Well; here's to 15k GXP well spent.

Edited by Latorque, 24 June 2014 - 02:48 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

NARC is the current hard counter to radar dep, basically if you get narced your boned.

[Argent Usher]

Vassago Rain, on 22 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

I run AMS, BAP, ECM, master seismic, master radar derp, master artillery, and master large coolant flush on my DDC.

Get on my level.

[Miles McQuiston]

Everyone. When the game publisher releases Clan Tech (LRM launchers are now half the weight as before)..... You have to give everyone a chance to save themselves from the rain. Module is needed and is well designed for keeping LRM usage reasonable in certain ELO brackets.

[DerRattenmann]

The only real problem I see with radar deprivation is that it comlpetely negates target decay. Spent your GXP and C-bills on this quite expensive 2-stage module? Well... it is garbage now ! Yay, that seems fair, does it ? If radar dep. would reduce tracking time in two stages, let's say -1sec for stage 1 and -2sec for stage 2 it shoutld work fine.

[Sharknoms]

As I mentioned in another thread already:
When I get into cover to avoid LRMs and they still hit me because my enemy can keep their locks up to 5(?) seconds after LOS breaks, it's super annyoing especially in my Adder and the fact that LRMs currently do their main damage to the legs makes the Radar Dep. a must have modules.

[ShinVector]

Iguana Iguana, on 24 June 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

As I mentioned in another thread already:
When I get into cover to avoid LRMs and they still hit me because my enemy can keep their locks up to 5(?) seconds after LOS breaks, it's super annyoing especially in my Adder and the fact that LRMs currently do their main damage to the legs makes the Radar Dep. a must have modules.

A month ago.. LRM defenders are pretty much going to tell you L2P if you still got hit even when you were behind low cover. Giving scrappy statements that you were in the wrong type of cover or that you did not know the map.. etc...
Amazing how things have changed now that the target decay advantage can be countered and being out of LOS actually means something to LRMs.

Edited by ShinVector, 24 June 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[Sharknoms]

ShinVector, on 24 June 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

A month ago.. LRM defenders are pretty much going to tell you L2P if you still got hit even when you were behind low cover. Stating scrappy idea that you were in the wrong type of cover or that you did not know the map.. etc...
Amazing how things have changed now that the target decay advantage can be countered.
They

That's why I always laughed at this L2P comments.
I mean when there is a freaking huge building between me and the LRM dude and he can still hit me.
What else should I do? Carring an umbrella?

[Lianesch ZA]

I love RD and run it permanently with Seismic Sensors and what ever is needed mech specific. Yes it makes Advance Target Decay completely useless.

IMHO, make ATD and RD counter each other for game balance.

My 2c

[Cyborne Elemental]

It needs to be weighted equipment, not a module.

That might be a little more balanced in its current form.

Being locked to only be available to Lights, or Mediums as well would also be a "smart" balance.

Its just too powerful in the hands of JJ poptarts with their PPC/AC/GAUSS combo.

It totally breaks the intended counter to poptarting which sadly is LRM's thanks to Gauss charge mechanics.

If not, it needs to be a soft counter to Advanced targeting modules reducing radar presence, not removing it and voiding another module completely.

Edited by Mister D, 25 June 2014 - 03:35 AM.

[Silverlance]

Mister D, on 25 June 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

It needs to be weighted equipment, not a module.

That might be a little more balanced in its current form.

Being locked to only be available to Lights, or Mediums as well would also be a "smart" balance.

Its just too powerful in the hands of JJ poptarts with their PPC/AC/GAUSS combo.

It totally breaks the intended counter to poptarting which sadly is LRM's thanks to Gauss charge mechanics.

If not, it needs to be a soft counter to Advanced targeting modules reducing radar presence, not removing it and voiding another module completely.

You must be a missile boat. lawl