29 replies to this topic

[gilliam]

So I will admit, I am not the best of pilots. My aim is acceptable, but I sometimes have trouble holding an aim spot for lasers and clan ACs at times, though I'd say my biggest problem is that I have a tendency to get into trouble more than I should.

I also happen to prefer to run light mechs or occasional mediums. I am not adverse to heavies, but I don't own too many, and I hate the plodding speed of assaults. Given that, I tend to blow up. . .A lot.

I took a huge break from MWO some time back, before these new clan mechs came out, the last I had played was way before the Project Phoenix mechs came out, and teams were 8 mans. Back then I used to do a fair bit of scouting, and while I ran into trouble on occasion, I felt as if most of the time I could escape trouble with most of my armor intact as long as I broke the LRM locks and could find a good corner to run around. Now though, I feel as though scouting is a death sentence. If I run into the enemy team it seems like I die before I can even try to run. Running past them is suicide, and turning around just gets me shot in the back before I can round a corner.

Now I just tend to try and find a buddy atlas and stick next to him and hope a furball starts so everyone is too distracted to shoot the Jenner, though I admit I occasionally get a bit uppity and play a bit aggressively which more often than not leads to my downfall.

It feels as though I am not actually doing that much with my mech since I just hang back which is something I could do in a heavier chassis but would then have some firepower to compensate, and I am wondering how I can improve on things to make better use of the unique traits of my light mechs without getting pasted for my trouble.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

From the playstyle you describe, I'm not entirely sold that Jenners are suited for you. Jenners are a highly mobile and aggressive light in general. Staying back doesn't earn c-bills, nor does it help your team much.

Instead of sticking with an Atlas, grab an AMS and stick with the other lights as much as possible. Swarms help survivability in light mechs drastically. If you really want to hang back, try experimenting with some longer range guns, such as the ER Large and the PPCs, there are plenty of longer-ranged Jenner builds around, although my only long-range Jenner experience has been in a Jenner with an LRM5 on top of it's laser setup.

I understand your preferences, although as a pilot, I literally will use everything I get my hands on (except Raven, for reasons). Good luck, but you might take some time to get comfortable in light mechs again.

[Ertur]

Clan lights, so far at least, aren't really lights. You can't play them as scouts, they're much too slow and cannot get out of trouble. Play them like mediums: stay close to the main body of your team, on the flanks and rear. Keep enemy lights away from those areas, and take potshots at whatever the bigger mechs are shooting at.

[Escef]

You could try running 4xML and a NARC. You help the team and your build is heat efficient.

[gilliam]

Tarriss Halcyon, on 23 June 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

From the playstyle you describe, I'm not entirely sold that Jenners are suited for you. Jenners are a highly mobile and aggressive light in general. Staying back doesn't earn c-bills, nor does it help your team much.

Instead of sticking with an Atlas, grab an AMS and stick with the other lights as much as possible. Swarms help survivability in light mechs drastically. If you really want to hang back, try experimenting with some longer range guns, such as the ER Large and the PPCs, there are plenty of longer-ranged Jenner builds around, although my only long-range Jenner experience has been in a Jenner with an LRM5 on top of it's laser setup.

I understand your preferences, although as a pilot, I literally will use everything I get my hands on (except Raven, for reasons). Good luck, but you might take some time to get comfortable in light mechs again.

See that's the problem. I WANT to use the Jenner aggressively, and I USED to use the Jenner aggressively with greatgood success, but since coming back, it seems like all that does is lead to me getting blown up in sort order as I get singled out and alphaed a half second after I round a corner. I do try to swarm when I can, but I wouldn't consider the majority of the time there's only 2 lights on the team (one of which is me) as being a swarm.

Ertur, on 23 June 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Clan lights, so far at least, aren't really lights. You can't play them as scouts, they're much too slow and cannot get out of trouble. Play them like mediums: stay close to the main body of your team, on the flanks and rear. Keep enemy lights away from those areas, and take potshots at whatever the bigger mechs are shooting at.

I just got a Kit Fox, and due to it's speed I try to play it as a pocket medium, though I am still getting used to the fact the arms sit real low. I am still tending to beat the crap out of hills.

[Revis Volek]

Sounds like the classic "Speed Kills" conundrum....I also have this issue. Most of my IS lights are around top speed and though it is great for scouting and fast enough to run MOST the time. Having that speed can be dangerous as you get far away from the pack very easily. You also can get to the firing lines and lanes much faster then the other mechs. Let the heavies and Assaults take some of that damage for you before you decide to run in and rip that fatties back open. Delay your shooting a few seconds to a minute if you see a larger mech hitting the pile first. This seems like a d-bag move but you are in fact preserving your life and helping the larger mech. He can take a few seconds of fire power no prob most the time and once you come in they will turn and chase the rabbit.

Honestly my best games and best use of light, especially clan, mechs has been in long ranged sniper roles. You throw ER LL on anything fast and you can shoot and move faster then anyone will be able to find you add ECM and hello ninja sniper. Work it like a boxer...a few jabs then move to the left or right. Few more blue glowing jabs and move position. I have put up solid and consistent 800 dmg games with no issue.

On the other hand, i do love my RVN-4X and my JR7-F as well, both excel when sticking with the pack and cover the fatties from flanks and back shots. I use them to chase off the lights that follow that atlas around....outside of that. I think you are doing well just seems like the speed is getting the best of you.

Best of Luck, Stay nominal.

Edited by DarthRevis, 23 June 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Tarriss Halcyon, on 23 June 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

From the playstyle you describe, I'm not entirely sold that Jenners are suited for you.

I also agree, sounds like you need a FS9-H or FS9-E (Ember). I think you will enjoy them much more....

[cmslick3]

Run a Firestarter with an ERLL and a ML plus the two machine guns and you will enjoy it. You can move a poke people from far away and when the brawl gets going you can swoop in from behind and take out some critical components with the MG. Always find a covered spot and avoid the LRM rain which will destroy you.

I chose to go a little crazy and run LPL, MPL and 2xMG on my Firestarter just because I like to run around the enemy pack and harass them. Plus I can basically hold the trigger down and shoot non stop without overheating.

[gilliam]

I have been eyeing that firestarter pack they are selling at the moment.

[Danghen Woolf]

Mechwarriors,

I applaud your use of light mechs. I enjoy a good roll in my Commando from time to time and have had moderate success. The configuration of your mech will help determine the role you will play as well as your lancemates mechs. I try to stick with my lance usually, unless there is a dedicated hunting party or light group rolling for objectives. I use the basic loadouts of medium lasers and SRMs on my Commandos so that once the brawl starts I can still help out. Even if your output is low on the scale, having a heavy chase the rabbit can sometimes give your friendlies enough time to find better firing solutions or even draw an enemy out of position or even out of the fight. The mobility of most lights can also allow you to dodge some incoming fire. Watching an FS9 put down a Stalker while his buddies do more damage to him than the light is something to see. I have been rolled by lights as much as I roll with them.

Good luck,

Mechwarrior Woolf signing off...

[Coventry Metal Works]

Greetings Mechwarriors,

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- Coventry Metal Works Public Affairs Office

[Lostdragon]

gilliam, on 23 June 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

See that's the problem. I WANT to use the Jenner aggressively, and I USED to use the Jenner aggressively with greatgood success, but since coming back, it seems like all that does is lead to me getting blown up in sort order as I get singled out and alphaed a half second after I round a corner. I do try to swarm when I can, but I wouldn't consider the majority of the time there's only 2 lights on the team (one of which is me) as being a swarm.


I just got a Kit Fox, and due to it's speed I try to play it as a pocket medium, though I am still getting used to the fact the arms sit real low. I am still tending to beat the crap out of hills.

I have about 2000 matches in Jenners and a few hundred in FS9s, mostly the Ember. The game has changed for lights. The aggressive playstyle I used to employ successfully is no longer viable, there are too many mechs that can do massive amounts of damage do you very quickly. Trying to be the squirrel and draw enemies into your team is now almost suicidal. It is much harder to dance around and make people miss or graze you. Even when getting grazed by certain energy boats you can loose relatively large amounts of armor instantly.

The tactics that used to work for me are no longer successful, I'm finding the only way I can consistently have success in lights is by hanging back and using long range weapons, which I don't find fun. The whole reason I liked playing lights was the ability to use speed and maneuverability to get in close and dictate the terms of combat. As I climbed in ELO, that became harder and harder to do but was still possible and effective if I played smart. Now the TTK on lights is so low that even with a brief exposure you are at serious risk, and that has sucked the fun out of the IS lights for me.

[JonahGrimm]

I have the opposite experience of Lostdragon, as a rule - but my ELO is lower than his. Different game, really.

What I've found is that, against the new crop of mechs, a light simply has to be cannier. Because most of the clan weapons aren't point damage, you can - if you pay attention - splash fire all over your mech, essentially getting all of your armor in play rather than the inevetable focus fire to the CT. The difference for me has been in use of cover - you now MUST watch where you are are and plan a couple of steps ahead as you engage.

I am seeing lots of light pilots stop moving - in today's game, this is a death sentence. Scouting can't be done by peeking over a ridge and targetting anymore; laser fire is actually too dangerous for that (even a short burn, in the time it takes you to get moving again, is doing far too much damage to endure).

The frontloaded damage thing was never really all that big a factor with lights - yes, the outliers like boomjagers and gaussjagers were and are dangerous, but at this point my mech is heavily notched with CTF, Victor, and Jager kills. All of the poptarts and FLD folks have the same problem: if they miss, you will punish them for it, and it's easy to miss a light moving at full speed (or to force a miss, if you're that light!).

I think the trick is now:

1) Plan ahead. Know what your next action is before you take it, and then commit. You can't charge in without a plan, or you'll eat facefulls of laser fire.

(e.g. - I'm going over that ridge, alpha into the Dire Wolf, left around the boulder. Escape path is JJ up the gully.)

2) No more death circles.

Circles of death were a silly tactic before, and they're worse now; many, many mechs have better torso twisting, and .. .let me digress:

there's a wierd thing that's happening because of the Clan mechs: clan mechs are all sort of... speed limited. Governed. Because of that, they move in packs - unintentionally, perhaps, just as a function of design. Their lights don't get strung out, their assaults really don't get left behind.

Because of that, a clan-heavy team will instinctively focus fire very well - they almost accidentally get overlapping fields of view and fire lines.

This means the 'death circle' - save in a few, rare instances - is now dead. If you start circling one mech, his buddies cut your arms and legs off. Don't do it. Stick and move, take big, long circling passes, always trying to come in on the flank. Focus down weapons and side torsos, legs when you can.

Evolve tactics or perish - the old stuff doesn't work anymore.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

JonahGrimm, on 27 June 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

This means the 'death circle' - save in a few, rare instances - is now dead. If you start circling one mech, his buddies cut your arms and legs off. Don't do it. Stick and move, take big, long circling passes, always trying to come in on the flank. Focus down weapons and side torsos, legs when you can.

I saw one of those rare instances recently in one of my Commandos. Novice in a trial Atlas ran away from the front lines after sustaining minor damage, despite his team being nowhere near him. A Jenner and I put him through the circle of death treatment. I felt horrible for doing it, but it was hilarious - circle-strafing an Atlas in a Streakmando with a Jenner helping. Oh, how the game had progressed from Closed Beta ;D

[Mark of Caine]

One thing I've been slowly learning when piloting lights is to stay roughly 800m or so from the pack. Whether I'm in a Raven scout mech or a Jenner hunter mech, I'm not too far away from the rest of the team if I get in trouble, I can cover one of the pack's flanks, and I can jump in from an unexpected direction on the enemy team when they engage.

The closed beta days of going out there solo and coming out alive are pretty much all but gone. A lot of people are getting better at legging lights, and it's just much more imperative to be able to run back for support if you get into trouble. Staying around 800m from the rest of the heavies and assaults means that some will have long range weapons to shoot at whatever is gunning for you, or be in LRM range.

Again, as I said, I'm slowly learning this and adapting to the new way the game is played now.

[Dayuhan]

A destroyed Light 'mech is of no use to the Company. So the primary focus of Light 'mechs should be foremost survival. Do not depend on your speed alone to protect you from even long range damage. Your armor alone is not enough to protect you for long even at long range. For many of the heavy and assault 'mechs on your team you will be their only eyes on the target until the battle lines close, and this is not just for firing solutions this is also to let them know where the enemy is, what direction the enemy is moving in, and - if the lock is held long enough - what weapons the enemy force is using. This can dramatically impact how the rest of your unit engages the enemy.

Once the actual engagement has begun between your unit and the enemy force your role changes. You are no longer needed so much as a scout, you are now needed to distract and harass. You do not need to do a lot of damage to distract, sometimes a single volley from behind is enough to get an enemy 'mech to start turning around. That is all you need, his back is now towards your main force where he cannot fire back and his weaker back armor is taking damage.

Finally comes the time where you can shine. The two forces have been wearing each other down with traded fire and multiple enemy 'mechs now have thin spots in their armor. Now is the time to start culling the herd, find a weak 'mech on the periphery of the enemy force and focus fire on the weak spot - this will quite often cause less experienced pilots to panic and make deadly mistakes.

The key to piloting a light 'mech is patience and clarity of purpose. Just because you are the fastest 'mech in the group does not mean you have to be the first to engage the enemy. Find, report, and wait the heavier units of your force to engage. Ideally the enemy unit should not know you even exist until after they are already engaged by the rest of your unit.

[0phialacria]

Run hard, run fast, don't get in front of guns if you can help it.

[mailin]

Jenners are tough to run these days due to the number of lights out there with ECM and the number of mechs that are designed to be light killers like Streaktaros and Shadowhawks with streaks. Under closed beta, the Jenner was the king of the lights, but that changed once ECM was introduced.

As a light driver, (usually a 3L with tag, streaks and ml or a 5D with 3 mplas) I try to sweep wide to get behind the enemy initially and report their position, numbers and direction. I also try to get locks without engaging. Once the enemy is engaged and my brawlers are in range, I will look for wounded mechs and try to hit them in their sore spots.

If I get spotted before my friendlies can engage, I make note of who is trying to close on me and what their weapons are. If they have streaks or LBXs, reposition. If they have more unwieldy weapons, try to lure them to a spot where they will be the only ones hitting you and then take them out.

[ShinVector]

mailin, on 29 June 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Jenners are tough to run these days due to the number of lights out there with ECM and the number of mechs that are designed to be light killers like Streaktaros and Shadowhawks with streaks. Under closed beta, the Jenner was the king of the lights, but that changed once ECM was introduced.

As a light driver, (usually a 3L with tag, streaks and ml or a 5D with 3 mplas) I try to sweep wide to get behind the enemy initially and report their position, numbers and direction. I also try to get locks without engaging. Once the enemy is engaged and my brawlers are in range, I will look for wounded mechs and try to hit them in their sore spots.

If I get spotted before my friendlies can engage, I make note of who is trying to close on me and what their weapons are. If they have streaks or LBXs, reposition. If they have more unwieldy weapons, try to lure them to a spot where they will be the only ones hitting you and then take them out.

Jenners are still very strong lights but there are a few things going against them:

• Bad HSR hit detection for lasers. A Jenners and lights primary weapon. If you want hurt something hard quickly at close range. You are screwed because HSR for lasers is borked ! Hope PGI will spend more time into fixing this. Eventually. (At least for me with at 250ms++ latency.)
  
• High Speed LRMS. This one in particular pissed me off, it stopped brawling pretty much for everyone with the constant non stop rain at one point (During the 175M/s LRM period). However... Radar Derp module has turned things for the better with being out of LOS and in cover mean something against LRM spammers now.
  
• Meanwhile this pretty much applies to all brawling. For lights know that when you expose yourself you will be High Alphed at and LRM Rained at... There are certain places you can patrol around and it usually is behind hills or pillars. Chances are with their view obscured, snipes are going to miss and it is a warning sign for you to bug off. Hit and run is usually the way to go else wait for time when it becomes a brawl after all the sniper and LRM people had their fun.
  
• Also note thanks to the staggered form of fire of most Clan ACs.. Lights actually have an easier time surviving against them versus IS ACs.

Edited by ShinVector, 29 June 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[YueFei]

gilliam, on 23 June 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

See that's the problem. I WANT to use the Jenner aggressively, and I USED to use the Jenner aggressively with greatgood success, but since coming back, it seems like all that does is lead to me getting blown up in sort order as I get singled out and alphaed a half second after I round a corner. I do try to swarm when I can, but I wouldn't consider the majority of the time there's only 2 lights on the team (one of which is me) as being a swarm.

When you round a corner, try to do so from a safe distance. See "slicing the pie" tactics.

If you turn the corner close to the corner, whatever is on the other side will appear suddenly and by surprise. By keeping your distance you can more gradually sweep the corner, and your farther distance also makes you a smaller target and harder to hit.

Also use jump jets to gain a higher vantage point to scout and maintain map awareness.

But don't sweat getting insta-gibbed at the wrong corner once in awhile. It comes with the territory of being a scout. Every time that happens should be a learning experience that hopefully prevents it from happening again.

Also when you're running away, don't give people your back for very long, if at all, if you can help it. Turn your torso sideways and give them your arms instead.

Remember, get eyes on the enemy early and often, because early-on they'll at least be farther away, and it's the safest time and distance to get eyes on them. If you don't do it at the beginning, you won't have a clear idea where the enemy is, and that increases the risk of randomly blundering into a bunch of them at close range later on.