394 replies to this topic

[zolop]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

But you won't have solo players, either.

If you're part of a 2-man that's drug into the larger group queue, then you might also be with a 10-man. Or a 4-man, and a 6-man.

Meaning that your teammates will be COORDINATING. You won't get nearly as much solo derp derp...and that is PRICELESS.

This cannot be realized enough to people that play in smaller groups. Its been a long time since larger groups can actually have the chance to play together and work with other lone wolfs/mercanaries. coming back for that.

[TKSax]

MuonNeutrino, on 23 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I do not expect to run up against full 12-mans very often, for sure. It is still going to be horrible when it happens, but you're correct that it isn't going to be super common. What I *do* expect is to end up in games where one side has a 6-man from lords, 3 from 228, and 3 randoms, and the other is 6 SJR, 4 BSK, and me and my buddy. Those games are still going to be equally unpleasant, even if they aren't full 12-mans.

What you describe happens right now, except for the 6 man part, I dropped on Friday and on my team I am Heimdelight and BannaNutMuffins (HOL) on the other team was a SJR4 man and a 228th 2 man, it was both tough and fun for me and I am not competitive player at all..., in fact I have seen worse, where I have run up against a 228th 4 man, and a SWK 4 man on the same team, and me and a Friend and 10 other solo players.... The current Matchmaker does not even try to put 1 group on each team, it is completely random where groups end up.

[Revorn]

As long as Prems are allowed in Pug Games, its Meh to me. I dont need Prems in Pug Games.

Pug only vs Pug only Game Mode.

[Felbombling]

R5D4, on 23 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Sorry but when I see this I can't help but think you have never done a real 12 man drop. 12 man random (a.k.a grabbing whoever else happens to be on TS that day) vs 12 man professional (a.k.a. they train 5 nights a week with the same group of people over and over) are completely different experiences. One is put together for fun the other is put together TO WIN - and trust me they do.

This is a fair statement, so I will give you my history. No, I have never done a real 12 vs. 12 drop in MW: O. I didn't see the point, given no greater rewards for group play and my shrinking friends list from Closed Beta. Having said that, I should also point out that my last group experience was being left alone in the TeamSpeak channel while my other three group members went up and joined another group when they realized we had both ended up on the same team by chance. Of course it was a slaughter, and when asked why I didn't go up with them, I feigned ignorance. In reality I didn't go up because I didn't want to take advantage of the situation.

Now, when you say that a regular group is put together for fun, I concede that is possible. What is also probable is that your winning percentage, by being grouped up on comms, goes up. I know this to be true, because I have grouped up all kinds of times with 2-3 other players and have noticed a huge increase in winning percentage. I already know what is coming, so before you can point out that I ride my teammates to victory, and they in fact carried me, let me suggest that we carried each other with effortless communication and focused fire to bring down opponents more efficiently. So, in essence, while you and your few pals are grouping up for fun, a side benefit that comes with it is probably more wins.

R5D4, on 23 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

This is why while I'm grateful for PGI putting together a separate group only queue I'm concerned that all this will lead to is 12 man professional groups beating the living p&#$ out of 5-10 man groups who are just trying to have fun with ALL of their friends online (not just 3 of them at a time).

Downgrade the group sizes and view that same statement from the point of view of a PuG player...

This is why while I'm grateful for PGI putting together a separate group only queue I'm concerned that all this will lead to is 4 man professional groups beating the living p&#$ out of PuGs who are just trying to have fun for a few games.

R5D4, on 23 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

I'm hoping that the matchmaker system is sufficiently refactored enough to prevent this from happening because if not all it will do is force 5-10 groups to split up back into the smaller queue with a 4 man again (assuming they can make that choice) or drive them off completely. Time will tell...

Do what the PuG players have been told for the last year... find more friends!

All kidding aside, I don't think group players are at all evil. PGI created the environment within which we play. I just think it kind of silly the about face and complaints/fears of the group players.

[Novakaine]

Nova approves.
About damn time.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Thank you so much. If the info provided in this announcement is 100% accurate (fall damage based on weight class/tonnage but not armor on legs, etc.) then you are providing everything I hoped for in terms of alterations to what you're doing, with the sole exception of a revision of your plans for Targeting Computers and Command Consoles.

I don't know if it was me or someone else, but it is a point I keep harping on- that you guys have been changing multiple elements of one system at the same time and expecting to be able to tell where things went too far. That you're holding off on the jump jet heat changes until you have the thrust right means that you listened, and I don't care if it was me or someone else either- just thank you. Thank you for not changing multiple elements of jumping at once and instead fixing one chunk and then the next. This is good game design.

Again- if this info is 100% accurate and not leaving out major points, then this is everything I hoped to see for the sake of the game on all the topics aside from in-'mech computers. Thank you so much.

-QKD-CR0

[Deathlike]

Good... Russ figured out what the people wanted... except the part where the solo PUG or small premade want to "opt-in/out" of the big queue. I guess that's progress.

With respect to the JJ Heat... gee.. I explained this back in the appropriate feedback thread... I guess "maybe" he's reading.

Better late than never I suppose.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I am concerned regarding how they will enforce 4x3 and Elo balancing in the groups queue ... if (for some reason) most of the groups in a certain Elo bracket are playing almost exclusively Assaults and Heavies, then where do they get the Meidums and Lights to fill out the rest of the side?

I'm cautiously optimistic that this will work or that there's another metering mechanism coming that will help keep queue times reasonable.

Oh, and if you're running into "nothing but tryhards in poptarts" in your "goofing off with friends" 'mechs ... you're doing really well (or they really blow chunks).

[Leigus]

So glad to see these changes coming in! The matchmaker situation is something of a compromise,but a fair one. Good stuff!

[Jody Von Jedi]

There is a valuable lesson to be learned in this thread. "Never say, 'Never'"

[Mystere]

Jman5, on 23 June 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Oh, one more thing. I think a lot of people underestimate just how many premades they play with right now. I will very often see 2-3 premades on each team.

WTF? Are you telling me that all this time I have been carrying premades when they should have been carrying me?

Edited by Mystere, 23 June 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[Too Much Love]

"Good news everybody!"

Sounds fantastic, IMHO, one of the best Command Chair posts ever. Hope, it will work as intended.

[Koniks]

Niko, can you see if it's possible for the design team to review and change the Clan LRM and Clan SRM impulse values before the patch?

I posted in the Karl Berg thread here: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3492499

Quote

Someone posted that Clan LRMs are providing more impulse than IS LRMs. According to Smurfy's data, the poster is correct. C-LRM 10-20 have .4 impulse. All IS-LRMs and C-LRM 5s have .35 impulse.

There's also a discrepancy with the C-SRMs. All IS-SRMs are .11 impulse. Clan impulse is as follows for SRMs:

C-SRM2-.19
C-SRM4-.11
C-SRM6-.19

All streaks are normalized at .040.

[p4r4g0n]

With regard to JJ heat, I applaud the decision to postpone the roll out of JJ heat. Based on the proposal to revisit the issue of JJ performance before implementing JJ heat, I'm hopeful that you will do the right thing and implement it as a penalty for using less than the optimal number of JJs e.g. 2/3 of max number of JJ possible rather than a penalty for using more JJs (refer to the JJ Heat Ramp Feedback thread for more details)

With regard to bigger groups, let me just firstly say that I very much appreciate this being worked on as I believe it is a fundamental step to having players play in max group sizes. However, having said that, I would re-iterate that I don't really see the downsides in giving players the option to choose:-

• to join the public group queue for solo players
  
• to not join the public group queue for 2-4 men groups

I do acknowledge that the concerns of the 2-4 man groups about being forced to play in the public group queue against superior groups could be addressed via the Elo mechanism. If this is the intent, could someone provide some clarification on this please?


Thank you and keep up the good work especially on the communications front which alleviates a lot of concerns (mine at the very least) about MWO.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 23 June 2014 - 10:07 PM.

[The Reaper Beckons]

I'm extremely impressed with this communication. Well written, well presented, and an open flow of ideas. Hats off to such a huge change from the past. I for one would like to thank you for sharing your creative vision.

Keep up the great work. Oh, and your clan mechs look incredible and are a pleasure to fight against. Not anywhere near OP, just different.

Well done.

Reaper

[Silverlance]

PalmaRoma, on 23 June 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

You know it's great and all you're taking a stand against the poptart meta, but what exactly does the IS have now? I mean, even poptarting wasn't exactly best done by the IS. The timber wolf could load the same loadout as Dragon Slayer, only they have no worries about losing a side torso, are less effected by Gauss rifle explosions due to built in case, oh and their ppcs do 2.5 splash damage to two adjacent components. Assuming I encounter a timber wolf with dual ER PPC and gauss. He doesn't even have to be dead on with his aim. He could frequently be striking me all over the place, the whole time, that splash damage adds up. He also outranges me by a strong margin and doesn't have to worry at all about a 90m min range. He's basically better in every regard, and by the way, he's far more mobile than a Dragon Slayer too. Timber Wolf has a clear upper hand in the Jump snipe duel and even weighs 5 tons less than DS.

But I digress, what exactly does the IS have left now that their second fiddle poptarting is going to be even further ripped apart? Engines you say? You know, that's hardly any consolation prize, since when was engine size all that crucial to a lumbering atlas or banshee? Aside from that, you'd have to have a very high engine size on a heavy to compete with the timber wolf. 89 kph and the weaponry of an assualt level mech. The only real strength of the IS now is sniper light mechs. Brawling light mechs on the other hand, well, not exactly the best idea right now with how many high dps clan builds there are.

Also, before you clan fanboys come in rushing to your precious clan mechs defense and spout lrn2play bull malarkey. I still do fine in game, and yes I know how to play. Doesn't change the fact that clans mechas are inherently better than IS. Not saying people can't do good in Is mechs, just saying some of the clan mechs have the odds stacked in their favor.

All I read here was, "Wahhh. Now I can't poptart and I don't know how to do anything else."

Also. Get over it. Clan mechs have always been and will always be better than IS mechs, hands down, for the very foreseeable future. It's not until what, 3060? 3070? That you IS finally learn how to reverse engineer our tech to suit your own mechs and even then, we still mop the floor with you with superior tactics. And then the Blakists come along, hurt both sides and then get obliterated by even more new tech. Point being. Clans are here. They'll get "Balanced" aka nerfed even more with the weeks to come and then it'll STILL be bad for IS pilots because we're STILL going to be superior in every way.

Face it. Your precious poptarting, hill humping, I-Don't-Want-to-Scratch-My-Digital-Paint-Job days are over. Now you're gonna have to go up and actually brawl and demonstrate skill in a 'mech. So gg close buddy. GG close.

[NextGame]

P4riah1, on 23 June 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

ELO is not everything. And having skill doesn't automatically mean you have the mindset of a competitive player. Me and my brother run in a pair all the time, and we don't PUGstomp or dominate anything. A lone pair just doesn't do that. But simply because we are fairly decent at video games, our ELO has crept fairly high over thousands of games. We get matched against the comp players constantly despite not being nearly as good as they are, because the ELO pool is too small.

I dont care about ELO, kill death ratio, even winning matches. I just want to have fun. Playing contantly against the competitive players is not fun. My options for avoiding them are shrinking.

While I agree with you that I don't really understand PGI's hate for small groups, I agree that this actually does make it harder to have fun for smaller group sizes, I would also say that it would only be right to set an example to solo players who constantly moan about "premades" being in the same games as them by manning up and setting an example.

[GoatHILL]

Sounds ok. But its to little to late.

Also if it can be eff'd up PGI will figure out a way.

[Karl Streiger]

I liked the part about the "heat ramp" for the JJs most - yes hold it back until its balanced. But that will never be the case with current "base heat" per jump jet class ratings in comparison with weight and thrust for those JJs.
You need a non linear function to do it right.... the most simple way to take a Mech and give this Mech a heat value for jumping.
for example HGN 1 HPS - no matter much JumpJets (1 or 5) you mount its always 1HPS.

- I'm still concerned about the indirect proportional fall damage - "scalar" if you like.
It can't work - to damage a Catapract or Timberwolf in a proper way - the same fall will destroy a Banshee? Or is fall damage only applied to Mechs with JumpJets?

If you force me to describe the falldamage "jump jet" nerf - i would say its to use a claymore to end a hostage-taking - at least you can be sure - that you will hit the hostage-takers.

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 23 June 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Better late than never I suppose.

You say that, but...