39 replies to this topic

[Arrogusss]

Just trying to quickly get out some thoughts on the forum tonight and this is one of them.
As the Topic states... I think the Orion Mech in it's current form should be considered an InnerSphere chassis and also a Clan one.
Not going to push the fact that it should be a hybrid, able to equip clan weapons etc.. but it'd be nice.
I know "lorewise" that another series of the Orion mech was built by the clans... yet alot of material states that the chassis was held in such high regard by clans that it was even used to some degree besides it's outdated tech etc... the "FAther Mech" theres another lore term clans used for certain older mechs dear to them.
SO if it ever comes down to a line in the sand.. THESE MECHS ARE ISmechs and these mechs are CLAN... Orion mech should be...well...BOTH.

*** I Love the Orion Mech..Love the Look mostly and I try hard in it, but I am TERRIBLE in it.. but I still LOVE it. It's a weird relationship with this mech for me. :L

Edited by Arrogusss, 23 June 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Belorion]

Clan used the Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

The IIC mechs for the Clan pose an interesting problem. There is only one variant of each, so they would not be able to Elite them.

[Alexii]

Belorion, on 23 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Clan used the Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

The IIC mechs for the Clan pose an interesting problem. There is only one variant of each, so they would not be able to Elite them.

Damn =) Thats a nice balanced mech

[Eddrick]

Belorion, on 23 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Clan used the Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

The IIC mechs for the Clan pose an interesting problem. There is only one variant of each, so they would not be able to Elite them.

Link them to the IS counterparts. Since, they are the same Mech. Just with Clan upgrades.

[Vassago Rain]

They never upgraded their old SDF orions to clan-spec, because if it was good enough for the Great Father, then it's good enough for any clan warrior.

Clan wolf eventually, after hundreds of years, made an entirely new orion model using clan technology.

[Eddrick]

The IICs are really just Clan remakes of IS Mechs. In that sence. There is a relation between them and the origenal. So, they can share the same skill tree. Since, going from the IS version, to a IIC version should be familiar to the pilot. The body stays mostly, the same. Just the insides changed.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/IIC

[wanderer]

Well, IIC's don't always match up. The Phoenix Hawk IIC is an ASSAULT 'Mech, not a medium.

In any case, the Orion IIC is basically a Clan Wolf design given to up-and-coming second-line officers who are on the fast track to a front-line unit. It's a mark of honor. Whether we'll see any non-Omni Clan designs anytime soon is another matter entirely.

[Belorion]

Eddrick, on 23 June 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

The IICs are really just Clan remakes of IS Mechs. In that sence. There is a relation between them and the origenal. So, they can share the same skill tree. Since, going from the IS version, to a IIC version should be familiar to the pilot. The body stays mostly, the same. Just the insides changed.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/IIC

Unless Clan only have access to Clan mechs (for CW) and vica versa.

[GreyGriffin]

The Clans have (and to a small degree, still build) Star-league era mechs for their solhama and garrison forces. They technically have access to pretty much every Inner Sphere 'mech made before the Exodus, although there were huge casualties between the Second Exodus and Operation Klondike.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Just because a dead space russian decided to drive one doesn't make it a Clan mech. Indeed, A. Kerensky was never a Clanner, it was his crazy son N. Kerensky who went off the deep end and took most of the remnant of the SLDF with him, and he didn't drive an Orion as far as I can tell.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eddrick, on 23 June 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

Link them to the IS counterparts. Since, they are the same Mech. Just with Clan upgrades.

But the are not. Most are unique chassis. Based off older design, but not the same.

Any more than the various generations of a Dodge Charger, are the same.






All are called Chargers, most have very little mechanically, in common.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 June 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Arrogusss]

From Sarna...not the end all be all Bible...but

"
Totem BattleMechs represent a Clan or faction's spirit, concept or totem-animal on which they were founded. More common among the Clans, particularly after Operation Revival and in the later days of the Dark Age, these BattleMech designs often devote more resources to aesthetic "frills" than many others; These "frills" are often anthropomorphic or zoomorphic in appearance.
One example of the increased importance of the Totem 'Mech can be seen when these units are compared to the OmniMechs that regularly appeared in the Clan's front line Clusters. Those units, designed for brutal efficiency on the battlefield and quick production, lack all the special moldings, formed armor, and other design details used in the Totem 'Mechs.<sup>[1]"

AND in regards to the CHARGER comparison
"</sup>Since it was the BattleMech that Aleksandr Kerensky piloted, the Orion has always held a special place in the mystique of the Clans. Even as new technologies were developed during the Golden Century, only Clan Wolf dared to think of upgrading this most sacred of 'Mechs. Not a radical reworking of the design, as some Clan upgrades are, the Orion IIC replaces much of the innards and weapons of the original, while preserving its mass and aesthetics. "

The Key to that description is "WHILE PRESERVING ITS MASS AND AESTHETICS"
I know this is describing technically a different name designation Orion, but it seems that it also has Inner Sphere weapons, Armor and Tech... not entirely different Clan tech. For example:

• 1x Gauss Rifle
  
• 1x LRM-20
  
• 2x ER Large Lasers
  
• 1x SRM-4

As Far as I can tell from reading up what I have found (actually researched it a bunch wayyy back when original Orion concept art dropped). The OrionIIC used by the Clans is pretty much the same exact mech we have now with a slightly tweaked loadout from the standard variants released.

No different really than my Protector with Endo, Ferro, Gauss, etc..etc..etc..
Also stated that it was manufactured... year 2841 Long before the current 3049 3050 year.

Edited by Arrogusss, 24 June 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Ngamok]

Bishop, the 4th Charger was a travesty. Dodge should have been ashamed to call it that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ngamok, on 24 June 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Bishop, the 4th Charger was a travesty. Dodge should have been ashamed to call it that.

the 3rd and 5th are just about as bad, TBH. One was emmisions neutered, the other....4 doors?

(The 4th Gen one (technically, 5th Gen, L-Body, mechanically, the 1 and 2nd gen were similar enough to be counter to the argument)),we actually did some serious damage at LACR with, as were a lot of the K-car era chryslers...... because you could turbo the HECK out of them, and well, if they blew up,. plenty of parts at the local pick a Part)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 June 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Wingbreaker]

Belorion, on 23 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Clan used the Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

The IIC mechs for the Clan pose an interesting problem. There is only one variant of each, so they would not be able to Elite them.

*some IICs do in fact have multiple variants.

[Mavairo]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 June 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

the 3rd and 5th are just about as bad, TBH. One was emmisions neutered, the other....4 doors?

(The 4th Gen one (technically, 5th Gen, L-Body, mechanically, the 1 and 2nd gen were similar enough to be counter to the argument)),we actually did some serious damage at LACR with, as were a lot of the K-car era chryslers...... because you could turbo the HECK out of them, and well, if they blew up,. plenty of parts at the local pick a Part)

I refuse to acknowledge the 3rd and 4th gens as even having existed.
I'm a Chevy guy. But I'm willing to pay the courtesy, to Dodge there. Much like I'm willing to pretend for Ford, that the Mustang 2 never happened. Well so long as they agree to pretend that the Corvette went out of production entirely from 1973 all the way to 1984.

If not... fair game.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 June 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mavairo, on 24 June 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

I refuse to acknowledge the 3rd and 4th gens as even having existed.
I'm a Chevy guy. But I'm willing to pay the courtesy, to Dodge there. Much like I'm willing to pretend for Ford, that the Mustang 2 never happened. Well so long as they agree to pretend that the Corvette went out of production entirely from 1973 all the way to 1984.

If not... fair game.

Well, even Bowtie guys can't ignore NASCAR from about 65-72......... all I gotta say is GOT HEMI?
(Though I freely admit, a 1967 Caprice, Chevelle or El Camino, was a sexy sexy thing.)

[Fang01]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 June 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

But the are not. Most are unique chassis. Based off older design, but not the same.

Any more than the various generations of a Dodge Charger, are the same.






All are called Chargers, most have very little mechanically, in common.

Well I didnt expect to see such sexiness in this thread! Bravo sir for including the Shelby Charger! Been a lifelong turbododge fan and have always owned some form of 2.2/2.5 powered car since high school.

[Mavairo]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 June 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

Well, even Bowtie guys can't ignore NASCAR from about 65-72......... all I gotta say is GOT HEMI?
(Though I freely admit, a 1967 Caprice, Chevelle or El Camino, was a sexy sexy thing.)

I'm less Nascar, more TransAm Racing, NHRA, SCCA Showroom stock, and later ALMS onward kinda guy
It was more the Superbird's aero than the hemi that really got the job done, on the ovals, in my opinion. Chevy never really participated in the Aero Car wars. Then again in those years chevy had their heads pretty firmly up their *** with their "gentleman ban" on racing. Which also explains why the C3 Vette was just a C2 with new body work. (And why it took all the way to the C4, and Gen 3 F bodies before they got serious about building cars again)

[Jin Ma]

Belorion, on 23 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Clan used the Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

The IIC mechs for the Clan pose an interesting problem. There is only one variant of each, so they would not be able to Elite them.

well if a banshee still exists, technically an original orion could still exist for the clans...

though they may be more likely to break down outdated models. since they have better tech readily avaliable.
Or they could possibly be upgraded to IICs.

Edited by Jin Ma, 24 June 2014 - 03:29 PM.