82 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Lore never stood up to even TT. And if you lasted more than 6 turns(1 Minute) of combat you did Awesome. No matter the Mech.

Most company on company games took less than 12 Turns (under 2 minutes of battle).

What? We were lucky if something like an Asault Mech was able to engage by turn 12. Then again we typically ran double blind 3(long way) by 4 (short way) maps and so much of the game was spent trying to find the opposing team WITHOUT leaving one of your lances in a bad place. Scouts were actually needed in our games. I really wish our maps were larger.

[Biaxialrain]

Seems to me you're talking role warfare.

I don't see much of that in this game.

If that were the case then only dedicated "missile boats" would carry LRMs, etc......

Don't give a $hit about what any "lore" says either.

[Asmudius Heng]

Yep, this has always been how it is in MechWarrior games but the holdover from TT where Assaults could take huge amounts of fire due to random hit locations lingers on.

Positioning with an assault is critical because of you commit wrong you are screwed but if you commit right you can turn a battle.

Being an assault is unforgiving ... to drive one well is a bit of an art in fact against good opponents.

There are a few ways you an tank with an assault mind you but its usually something you do when outpositioned not a primary tactic.

[Bishop Steiner]

Biaxialrain, on 24 June 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Seems to me you're talking role warfare.

I don't see much of that in this game.

If that were the case then only dedicated "missile boats" would carry LRMs, etc......

Don't give a $hit about what any "lore" says either.

yes, we know. And we don't care about your opinion HERE, either.

[DYSEQTA]

Whilst I don't expect Assaults to lead the charge I do get rather peeved when I am dancing on the frontlines in one of my mediums, then duck out of the line of fire to cool down only to see 3 assaults and a couple of heavies milling around in circles behind a mountain doing nothing. That happens a lot more frequently than I like in the pub queue.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Biaxialrain, on 24 June 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Seems to me you're talking role warfare.

I don't see much of that in this game.

If that were the case then only dedicated "missile boats" would carry LRMs, etc......

Don't give a $hit about what any "lore" says either.

And Role warfare was one of the main things they went on and on and on and on and on about in their initial vidoes about this game. HAd it been a Coop/PVE world game, it woulda really been nice to have Role warfare....Scouts literally do find the mechs nad keep them spotted for your LRM boats, Assaults move in with heavies and provide heavy fire support, while the mediums flank around the sides and finish stuff off, or flank around the back and blow up LRM boats, turrets, bases and other stuff.



As it is, this game has developed into World of Tanks with mechs, where the biggest mechs zerg around and curb stomp anyone foolish enough to venture alone and light mechs circle jerk the biggies who venture off.

Pretty much this game is a 12v12 TDM Zerg fest on COD sized equivalent maps.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 24 June 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Lynx7725]

LordKnightFandragon, on 24 June 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

And Role warfare was one of the main things they went on and on and on and on and on about in their initial vidoes about this game. HAd it been a Coop/PVE world game, it woulda really been nice to have Role warfare....Scouts literally do find the mechs nad keep them spotted for your LRM boats, Assaults move in with heavies and provide heavy fire support, while the mediums flank around the sides and finish stuff off, or flank around the back and blow up LRM boats, turrets, bases and other stuff.

Dude, honestly, that does happen for me in game. In PUG games, no less. You don't need PGI to code up a label for you -- just take on the role, no need to wait for PGI.

Scouts do look for stuff, and spot for LRM boats. Assaults and heavies do coordinate pushs (in PUGs, no less), and mediums.. well they are kinda rarer. But we do get fast movers slipping behind the lines to go for LRM boats.

I sometimes wonder what is it about gamers that need an authority figure to label something for them. The roles are all there -- you can seize them with your own play. No need to wait for PGI.

[meteorol]

When i opened this thread, i was afraid it would be an "assault mechs have they best armor, they need to lead the charge" thread. Because as someone who plays nothing but assault mech since CB, and who spend a year in the DDC, i really hate those.
Really.

Guys who suggest assault mechs should be tanking damage probably never played an assault mech. The current situation (with assault pilots "hiding behind rocks" like many like to say) is a direct outcome of the fact that assault mechs can't tank damage.

An assault mech leading the charge into multiple enemies will be cored out in 5 seconds flat, even if he has excellent "tanking" hitboxes like the STK. Assault pilots are afraid to push because they know they will die in under 10 seconds even when torso twisting like a maniac once they are focused by 2 or 3 mechs. The crazy amount of firepower that is on the field nowadays is simply more than any assault can take if they expose to it. So they chose not to expose. No one misses an 60 kph assault mech. Literally no one.

"Tanking" was possible to some extent when it was 8vs8, we had no HSR, people were missing atleast 1/2 to 3/4 of their shots, and people were actually using more STD engines and less weapons because they felt like XL are too risky. Those times are long gone, and so is any possibility of an assault mech to tank.

Seriously, if you tell an assault pilot to "tank", you might aswell tell him "please suicide for me so i can get more shots in without taking damage". Newsflash, this assault carries 3/4 of your mechs weight in weapons. Wasting this firepower to a 5 seconds suicide charge won't make you win the match.

[YueFei]

No one should be trying to tank multiple enemies at once if it can be helped, but what irks some players is watching Assault mechs that refuse to ever step from cover and contribute. They just kind've sit there passively waiting for an enemy to wander into their gun sights.

Of course, those kind of players tend to do that regardless of whether they are in an Assault mech or Heavy mech or Medium mech or Light mech. It is just more irksome when they do it in an Assault mech because all of that armor isn't being used.

What people do expect is for an Assault mech to at least be willing to come to grips with the enemy. Slice the pie intelligently to limit exposure to 1 enemy at a time, torso twist to survive longer, be willing to take a hit or two because it isn't going to crack your shell. Pushing in an Assault mech doesn't mean you have to break fully from cover and rush toward the enemy until you are dead.

[Kilo 40]

I've always viewed assaults as more like Battleships.

and lights as frigates, mediums as destroyers, heavies as cruisers.

[Lynx7725]

Kilo 40, on 24 June 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

I've always viewed assaults as more like Battleships.

and lights as frigates, mediums as destroyers, heavies as cruisers.

Seriously, I hope you're not going to suggest to me to steam around the battlefield in line astern and unleashing broadsides at enemy formations, while trying to cross their T...

[Kilo 40]

Lynx7725, on 24 June 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

Seriously, I hope you're not going to suggest to me to steam around the battlefield in line astern and unleashing broadsides at enemy formations, while trying to cross their T...

[Khobai]

Quote

I've always viewed assaults as more like Battleships.

and lights as frigates, mediums as destroyers, heavies as cruisers.

This. The tank destroyer analogy doesnt work because it implies the existence of tanks. You cant have one without the other.

The naval analogy works much better.

Quote

Seriously, I hope you're not going to suggest to me to steam around the battlefield in line astern and unleashing broadsides at enemy formations, while trying to cross their T...

I suppose poptarts are more like submarines. They line up shoulder to shoulder, surface to torpedo depth, and alphastrike

Edited by Khobai, 27 June 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 27 June 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

This. The tank destroyer analogy doesnt work because it implies the existence of tanks. You cant have one without the other.

The naval analogy works much better.



I suppose poptarts are more like submarines. They line up shoulder to shoulder, surface to torpedo depth, and alphastrike

Actually, Heavy Mechs essentially function the role of an MBT.

[Ordellus]

Blackscreen, on 24 June 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Funny, from what I usually see in public matches the role of assault mechs seems to be playing peek a boo...

That happens when we can't trust the rest of our team to watch our backs and us assault pilots don't generally have the luxury of being able to make a mistake.

[Mercules]

meteorol, on 24 June 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Seriously, if you tell an assault pilot to "tank", you might aswell tell him "please suicide for me so i can get more shots in without taking damage". Newsflash, this assault carries 3/4 of your mechs weight in weapons. Wasting this firepower to a 5 seconds suicide charge won't make you win the match.

One of the things I have actually done in a LIGHT mech is to lead the charge. Why? Because if I do it right I survive it... that is right, I survive it. Now I need a speedy mech, preferably with JJs, and just enough firepower or cockpit shake to really annoy someone. The Firestarter can actually work pretty well for this although it is a bit easier to hit than a Spider. However it is also more dangerous than a Spider.


Basically I hop up over a ridge on the side or zip through a gap so quick people don't have a whole lot of time to get to many shots, then I spin and head right into the middle of them where they have to worry about friendly fire. If they don't, well, when they miss I win. If they do worry then I don't get shot to hell and can actually try and get to the other side.

Typically I time this for when the larger mechs are already pushing or at least popping out for some quick shots. That way when the enemy team spins my team gets backshots on them. If they turn right back around then I get back shots. If I have too much heat I'll head back into the center of them again. Sometimes I get away, sometimes I die, but if my team is paying attention at all they can wander forward and pick off a couple before the other team starts shooting back at them.

[Xarian]

Role warfare is alive and well; people just in general aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Bishop's article is accurate, for the most part. Not all Assaults are the same - his discussion here is accurate for those with low movement and high firepower (though missiles and direct fire work differently, they do a similar job of killing heavies/other assaults). The DDC is in a subcategory category by itself because it's kinda like the cool kid that everyone wants to hang around.

Faster Assaults and assaults with a ton of missile hardpoints (BLR, for example) have a role as a bugzapper - they don't have the firepower of the slower assaults, but they have a lot more armor than your typical medium or light mech so they're good at defending their teammates' flank against mediums and some lights, similar to the medium role described but with more focus on defensive behavior.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xarian, on 27 June 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Role warfare is alive and well; people just in general aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Bishop's article is accurate, for the most part. Not all Assaults are the same - his discussion here is accurate for those with low movement and high firepower (though missiles and direct fire work differently, they do a similar job of killing heavies/other assaults). The DDC is in a subcategory category by itself because it's kinda like the cool kid that everyone wants to hang around.

Faster Assaults and assaults with a ton of missile hardpoints (BLR, for example) have a role as a bugzapper - they don't have the firepower of the slower assaults, but they have a lot more armor than your typical medium or light mech so they're good at defending their teammates' flank against mediums and some lights, similar to the medium role described but with more focus on defensive behavior.

Correct, I touched lightly on this, such as the Victor, but in many ways they fill ancillary roles to the MBT.

[Xarian]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 June 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Actually, Heavy Mechs essentially function the role of an MBT.

The Jagermech is essentially a modern AA tank with legs instead of treads

[Bishop Steiner]

Ordellus, on 27 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

That happens when we can't trust the rest of our team to watch our backs and us assault pilots don't generally have the luxury of being able to make a mistake.

A fine example was earlier tonight on Canyon Network. I and another Direwolf were hanging back ,taking potshots and LRM volleys as we could.

Some idiots start blabbering about why don't you guys do something. Try to explain we are, but that committing 2 Direwolfs to the front just means two dead direwolfs, and loss of their firepower, because when the PUGs abandon us at the first sign of trouble, WE can't break off.

Sure enough, first hard push from the opposition, and we were two solo Direwolves.

GG, close!