99 replies to this topic

[Ryvucz]

Lulz

[Girth Fillmore]

The OP has been playing this game for over a year; if by now he/she hasn't figured out how not to be overwhelmed by LRMs, I don't think it's going to happen.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Zolaz, on 25 June 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Big Dog

[Tezcatli]

They should introduce a more basic ECM that just increases locking on time. The current ECM is entirely too strong a counter. And narc is **** unless you're a light that can get in close enough to use it.

[Deathz Jester]

has anyone else noticed that almost every post like this, the OP has about anywhere from 1 - 10 posts on average, has played maybe under 100 matches, posts on the forum out of rage and then is almost always never heard from again? But their thread might stem 5, 6, or even more pages of replies.

[Wolfways]

Maybe there should be a permanent thread on the MWO forums that people be directed to. ETA group (Easy Targets Anonymous)

[Johnny Reb]

Lets just get rid of lrms and ballistics and just laser tag each other. Make a great game!

[Rando Slim]

Honestly though I can feel the OP.......none of those counters except ECM really work reliably. Most mechs are too slow to dodge lrms and you need to look up and then run backwards and twist sideways at just the right time, most maps have ****-all cover. You either have maps that have no cover at all or maps that have cover that renders lrms useless. A single AMS doesn't do **** against more than maybe 10-15 missiles, so when 80 of them with artemis are on the way its pointless. Yea a group of AMS users can make a nice umbrella, but you cant count on that while Pugging. God forbid you are an aggressive player, you get punished for it, and I don't mean going off by yourself,just trying to make it from point to point can be hard. Situational awareness fine but when you literally cant see the enemy and your getting hit that isn't your fault, they probably have some ECM spotter running around that you cant see. If you go chase him you'll die, if you don't chase the spotter you'll die, then everyone just stands around cause theyre afraid. Its infuriating and then makes the problem even worse because now your all static. People are always like "lurn 2 play stooped" and that's fine if they want to be inconsiderate. But you cant sit and tell someone to sit in cover and then turn around and say "well you should have been more aggressive" when they lose and expect them not to get confused or pissed. I've been playing a year and a half, K/D ratio of 1.2, not great but not terrible. Trust me I still get killed by lrms a lot and it makes me want to drown kittens. Its impossible to avoid especially if you don't like to sit on your ass for 8 minutes before the real meat of the match starts. If you play as an aggressive, flanker or probing type of layer lrms are a HUGE pain in the ass. Like what am I supposed to do just ******* sit and wait? **** that I'm here to play and bow **** up. Remember kids: ECM is the direct counter to situational awareness also. If I cant see the spotter cause of ECM and theres no cover, or ECM is covering all the lrm boats then its not a case of "lurn 2 play" then is it? The only thing I can do is wait and HOPE the stupid pooptarts can take them out.

I'm so tired of people being so dismissive of the lrm problem. Tell me where the **** the cover Is on Alpine by the stupid hill everyone fights at? Tell me were the cover is on Tourmaline in e6/f7 where EVERY match the fight is at, tell me what to do on Caustic where its an open ground NASCAR race around the ******* crater. If lrms aren't a problem its because you arent running into any good lrm pilots that wait until your traversing the bottom of one of those canyons on canyon network and then pop up over a ridge and lob hundreds of the little ******* at you from 350 m away and you cant do **** about it. "Don't be there" you say? Well excuse me sometimes you HAVE to cross open ground, you HAVE to do other things besides sit in ECM bubble and pooptart, god forbid you just WANT to pilot something without jumpjets that has to go in one of hose death trap canyons to get anywhere.

IMO the best counter to lrms (and arty strikes too) is twofold: constant movement as a team, and bloody voice comms in pug matches to facilitate that. Because if I cant verbally tell my team hey lets all move somewhere or send a lance to harass them there or hey a few of you provide cover fire while some of us move, then it isnt going to happen and then someone who is aggressive like me is gonna keep moving and then get separated, but that's not because I'm stupid its because really that's what EVERYONE would do if we could communicate to keep moving as a team.
But we cant because we have to stop and type it, even if you set your throttle and type you cant turn so few people do it

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 13 July 2014 - 01:27 AM.

[Lykaon]

Fierostetz, on 24 June 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

You CAN make lrms work for you, btw

I like to take my sdr-5d and, when playing against an lrm heavy team, hide behind one of their assaults... turn off my ecm... and laugh maniacally as all their lrms smash down upon their teammate. Makes me laugh so hard I almost pee.

I thought I was the only one who thought this through....Yes it's nearly pee inducing to watch a team tear it's own direwolf to pieces with the over zealous attempt to sack an ECM light.

P.S. it's not exactally hiding behind an enemy assault it's being there AND being seen keeping the big assault chassis between you and the incoming vector of the Lurms.You toggle off the disrupt mode hear the missile launch detected warning then toggle the ECM back to disrupt and fade from LOS.If all goes well the enemy is standing in the area you were a moment ago and the Lurms are currently being air mailed to.This is the comical way to handle those assault mechs who seem fearful of moving out of cover,

[Cavendish]

Let me rephrase that and see what you think about it:

If every mech can equip Gauss, then every mech should be able to equip an Ballistic Shield. This game is no longer Mech Warrior Online......It is now Gauss Spam Online.

Disgusting.....Do something about it!!


LRM as a weapon system is (now, finally, after a year+ in the woods) decently effective. It has many counters unlike most if not all other weapon systems in the game that you can just eat the damage from and accept it. If you can ECM your way to victory against LRMs, and thats ok, then where the hell is my ballistic shield that protects me from Gauss and ACs? Where is my anti-laser/ppc armor coating? LRMs have downsides to counter the fact that its capable of being used as indirect fire, and thats fine. Even the powerful radar deprivation module is fine, especially now that they will cut down on how many modules we can carry and it turns from a "standard outfit" into a more tactical decission since you can not carry all the good modules at once.

Stand in the open or be caught there by someone and die by LRM....just like ANY OTHER WEAPON.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Except, being out in the open you're not necessarily in LOS to be hit by anything but the mechs clearly visible which typically is only 2 or 3 unless you made a huge mistake and walked straight into the entire murderball.

With LRM's, every single mech that has LRMS in range can fire on you without line of sight, and usually every single LRM mech WILL fire upon you the second 1 mech has revealed you on radar, and if its 12 vs 1 thats alot of freaking LRM's.

Especially these days.

LRM are a huge force multiplier, and nobody carries just 1 LRM5, which is all a single AMS is able to deal with.

Standard LRM's were able to be dealt with, if you had Enhanced Gyro's, you could still take a few shots in between vollies, but with clan spam, a single LRM 20 is shaking your screen just as badly if not worse than the old 4-6x LRM5 chainfire spam.

And now with mech's like the madcat able to chainfire 4x LRM10's its just nonstop of being blind and disoriented and unable to even return fire or even see your way to cover.

On top of that, Clan LRM's are much more accurate than the IS launchers, even without Artemis, and they WILL core the hell out of you way faster than the IS ARTEMIS setups.

And guess what, its about to get alot worse because next patch is giving Clan LRM's no min range to deal damage, now a clan LRM20 is effectively a SRM6 at 90 meters WITH GUIDANCE.

Edited by Mister D, 13 July 2014 - 03:16 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

LRMs and ECM are only viable when you repeatedly are a victim to them. Stop feeding LRM mechs kills and they start looking for better builds. You know why in matches where you get rolled and you have lrm boats they tend to die last? The are not a concern for some players and get focused last.

Don't stand in open.

Move from cover to cover.

Your firing position should block them when behind cover (if enemy is using them)

During cool downs take a look up for UAVs.

Lights and/or light hunters keep pressure on and kill spotters/narcs.

Make your engagement against other mechs in a place without line of fire from the lrms when possible.


When you get to the point where you do not need ECM, AMS, target dep you will start finding yourself moving up in the game to a place where LRMS are not used and the above are not need to be part of your builds.

[IanSane]

Cavendish, on 13 July 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

Let me rephrase that and see what you think about it:

If every mech can equip Gauss, then every mech should be able to equip an Ballistic Shield. This game is no longer Mech Warrior Online......It is now Gauss Spam Online.

Disgusting.....Do something about it!!


LRM as a weapon system is (now, finally, after a year+ in the woods) decently effective. It has many counters unlike most if not all other weapon systems in the game that you can just eat the damage from and accept it. If you can ECM your way to victory against LRMs, and thats ok, then where the hell is my ballistic shield that protects me from Gauss and ACs? Where is my anti-laser/ppc armor coating? LRMs have downsides to counter the fact that its capable of being used as indirect fire, and thats fine. Even the powerful radar deprivation module is fine, especially now that they will cut down on how many modules we can carry and it turns from a "standard outfit" into a more tactical decission since you can not carry all the good modules at once.

Stand in the open or be caught there by someone and die by LRM....just like ANY OTHER WEAPON.

Apples to oranges. EVERY other weapon can be retaliated against, even pop tarts. That Gauss shooter you talk about EXPOSES their mech to return fire to take that shot, LRM boats do not. You can counter attack against ANY other weapon in the game EXCEPT LRMs THAT is their ECM and its called being able to return fire.

[ztac]

from the start ... I thought it was missile warrior online.

Plenty of other threads on this though , a lot of the pro missile stuff is garbage though. Hell they even want to nerf all the 'soft' counters. Only one hard counter is in the game and that's high cover... which is not in high abundance! oh and tunnels or othr places where you can get in them or under.

Already explained elsewhere why the 'counters' are not as good as people say they are.

[nehebkau]

Solahma, on 24 June 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

FYI, every mech can carry AMS. It is a piece of equipment to help prolong your life. I suggest looking into it.

Then increase the effectiveness of AMS. IMHO 1 AMS should counter 90% of an LRM 5, 60 % of an LRM 10 40% of a LRM 15 and 20% of an LRM 20.

[Sephlock]

IanSane, on 13 July 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Apples to oranges. EVERY other weapon can be retaliated against, even pop tarts. That Gauss shooter you talk about EXPOSES their mech to return fire to take that shot, LRM boats do not. You can counter attack against ANY other weapon in the game EXCEPT LRMs THAT is their ECM and its called being able to return fire.

The thing about poptarting is that they'll POP over a ridge, fire, and then drop down before you can do much of anything. Hell, back before the AC/2 nerfs you could at least pepper them with AC/2 fire at extreme ranges, but unless they are really dumb they generally won't be popping up in THE EXACT SAME SPOT over and over like this:



Nor will they be fully exposing their mechs before firing and dropping down.

So... good luck hitting them reliably (or at all) especially if they aren't the only tarts that are popping.

And yeah, poptarting isn't the only way to hit without being hit, either. An enemy can simply wait until you are engaged and stick their head out to start shooting at you, then duck back when you turn to them. It isn't as easy as it once was (prior to the hill climbing nerf) but it is still quite possible.

You might argue that that isn't the same, because at least then you have someone to shoot at... except that you DO have someone to shoot at in your dreaded LRM scenario: the spotter mech/uav. I suppose Narc is an exception, so feel free to whine about that, I guess.

ztac, on 13 July 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

from the start ... I thought it was missile warrior online.

Plenty of other threads on this though , a lot of the pro missile stuff is garbage though. Hell they even want to nerf all the 'soft' counters. Only one hard counter is in the game and that's high cover... which is not in high abundance! oh and tunnels or othr places where you can get in them or under.

Already explained elsewhere why the 'counters' are not as good as people say they are.

And it's already been proven why you are wrong, again and again and again and again. I guess you don't feel like listening though.

[Wolfways]

Scrotacus 42, on 13 July 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

People are always like "lurn 2 play stooped" and that's fine if they want to be inconsiderate.

I'd never call someone stupid...unless they annoyed me for a long time
I'd definitely say that someone who has problems avoiding LRM's is a bad player.

But what would you say to people who post the exact opposite of your post because it really is their game experience?

[Cavendish]

IanSane, on 13 July 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Apples to oranges. EVERY other weapon can be retaliated against, even pop tarts. That Gauss shooter you talk about EXPOSES their mech to return fire to take that shot, LRM boats do not. You can counter attack against ANY other weapon in the game EXCEPT LRMs THAT is their ECM and its called being able to return fire.

That 1 second window where the sniper "expose" themselves well outside my range of detection and hugging/jumping over terrain is not really the huge weakness you want to paint it as in my opinion. Unless you know where the shooter is, he is safe from any form of retaliation unless he is standing out in the open.

[Wolfways]

IanSane, on 13 July 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Apples to oranges. EVERY other weapon can be retaliated against, even pop tarts. That Gauss shooter you talk about EXPOSES their mech to return fire to take that shot, LRM boats do not. You can counter attack against ANY other weapon in the game EXCEPT LRMs THAT is their ECM and its called being able to return fire.

And if you are using cover, to fire at you the Gauss user has to get LOS to you to negate that cover, while the LRM user cannot.
I don't care how many people say there is not enough cover on the maps, cover is not high enough, you are forced to hide behind one piece of cover for the whole match. It's complete rubbish. The rate that LRM's hit me is proof of that.

In other news, i was actually killed by LRM's a month or so ago...and i smiled.
I was out of position on Alpine and ignoring the RVN-3L spotter i knew was there in favour of firing at a bigger target so it was my own fault....but it made a nice change

[SgtMagor]

cant remember how passive radar worked against Lrms in MW4, iirc they couldn't get a target lock, but if they add passive radar, combined with your AMS, it would be a little xtra protection from Lrm mechs provided they don't have TAG, or Narcs.