27 replies to this topic

[RapidFire7]

Say whaa...?

Yes, I dared to say it. PGI needs to stop trying to discourage any Meta style of gameplay. Ironic that poptarting and boating has been nerfed, yet they bought out clan mechs which are more powerful than their Inner Sphere counterparts. NOT overpowered, just more powerful.

The only real weakness in these new mechs is the amount of heat buildup/ghost heat that is created from alphas, and my troll Firestarter with 4 Flamers helps win matches by simply frying clan mechs until teammates destroy them. Having said that, people are getting wise to the fact that clan mechs create a massive amount of heat if not constructed intelligently.

(You can actually commit suicide in a Nova by firing all 12 of the lasers at once in the stock Prime configuration - saw it in a game today. Fresh new mech died after 20 seconds or so of gameplay).

Let's cut to the chase - previously we were worried about Highlanders, Victors and Cataphracts one-shotting us into critical damage. Now, the release of the clan mechs has changed the game of Mechwarrior Online completely. It is nowhere near the same as it was anymore.

It's kind of funny how a lot of people were complaining about these so-called Meta builds before and how they were out of balance with the rest of the mechs in the game and now teams are quite literally getting ROFLstomped into oblivion by the clan mechs.

One of the Dev's in the last Vlog said that the release of these clan mechs will more or less force players into working as a team more and while this has proven to be very true, it hasn't exactly turned out that way. I have been in quite a few matches now where both teams have been working well together, but ultimately the team with the most clan mechs ends up winning the match. That's not exactly balance, is it?

Funnily enough, the answer is in the "problem" that we had "fixed" not so long ago - the Inner Sphere Meta. 30 points pinpoint damage at range. Yes, clan mechs have weapons that can reach longer distances than a Meta mech, but obviously there is no instant pinpoint damage for Clan Ultra AC's, Clan ER Large Lasers (obviously), Clan LRM's (in a stream of one missile at a time) and Clan ER PPC's are virtually the same as the Inner Sphere ones.

Here's my solution (although I seriously doubt anyone from PGI is going to give it some serious thought) is to undo the Mobility nerfs previously implemented for the Highlanders and Victors, make an option to have jump jets more powerful (as opposed to long-lasting) and although I know this one is a bit ludicrous, get rid of that ruddy Ghost Heat!!!

(Enter Rant)

I've never ever seen a Nova kill itself by firing an alpha of 12 ER Medium Lasers before today! I'd rather advocate the abolition of Ghost Heat and see 6 PPC Stalkers in game all the time. In fact, Ghost Heat is a kick-in-the-groin for Inner Sphere mechs because clan mechs are able to mount pretty much whatever they want, yet Inner Sphere mechs are repeatedly punished and penalized for building their mechs in the same way! I have repeated it many times on the forums but Ghost Heat makes no actual sense in the world of BattleTech, the MWO universe AND the real world.

(Rant Over)

So there we are folks. I encourage you all to pay particular attention to the Meta, as it is going to be one of the only ways you will survive in this game - as it is all about survival now. Watch Twitch.tv and watch JagerXII, Adiuvo, Koniving, MAVRCK, do your research on the big groups such as Steel Jaguar, Antares Scorpions, House of Lords (Winners of the First Engagement tournament), Smoke Adders etc.

If you want to get better, survive and win, you will need to be able to combat the new "Meta" - the Omnipod.

RF

Oh and P.S. - PGI, you did a fantastic job with those clan mechs. They look super awesome and when I can spare a penny, I bet you can guess what it's going towards

Edited by RFMG567, 18 June 2014 - 05:13 AM.

[BOWMANGR]

N.O.P.E.

...and I don't mean your signature.

[north ranger]

It's very early in the clan release. So I'd wait while to see if they (pgi) make any balance changes before saying we need buffed poptarts.

Personally, I like the how we will now have to adjust to clans.
It's like the inclusion of ECM changed the meta so the same will happen with IS vs Clan.
Those who could and would stomp regularly needed to bring different mechs/ weapons/ tactics to the field to stay competitive.
Just as Clans change everything in the MW history, it's fitting they should shake up IS squabbles on 'optimal builds' too. And I'm glad to see that in game. As long as ghost heat applies equally to Clan then it's still fair to both sides.
Cheers!

btw, while I'm not one for ghost heat.. I like the consequence of overheating so much the reactor melts and explodes.. it's more like TT. In fact, I'd rather see more TT consequences for running super hot as that would eliminate the need for ghost heat imo and limit alpha strikes too.
Anyways, just my two cents.

Edited for grammar.

Edited by Trinity Xavier, 18 June 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[xMintaka]

What we need is for all serious playstyles to be viable.

That includes poptarting, brawling, sniping, striking, etc.

Being relegated to jump-sniping in IS mechs to deal with clans is preposterous. It obsoletes all but three or four chassis, not to mention that many people do not enjoy that style of play or are simply not good at it.

Guass + PPC snipers will never go away, it's a valid playstyle that has a higher skillcap than AC + PPC sniping and more drawbacks.

What needs to be done is remove 25 to 40 pinpoint alphas as the only way to play competitively, while keeping it at least a viable tactic. Hopefully JJ heat and fall damage will help in this regard.

Making IS autocannons burst fire would also remove the ability for any no skill pilot to do well in a poptart, forcing them to learn the much more difficult guass mechanic if they wish to jump snipe successfully.

The ease of AC5 + PPC poptarting is what makes it such a big issue. I've come up against lances that, on my own, I could tear apart in close quarters, and I'm average at best. But stick them 800m away, pogo-sticking behind cover and any newbie can strip an Orion before it reaches them. This extends to lance on lance.

Poptarting needs some serious drawbacks to offset the huge advantage it gives for very little effort. It seems PGI is working in this direction, and that is good news for those of us who prefer to see the fear in our opponents eyes as we unload volley after volley of SRM's into their face.

Edited by Lunatech, 18 June 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Dunne]

Completely disagree with the OP; poptarting and high alphas are not what I'm here to play. I came here to play with Atlases, and Orions, and Battlemasters. I don't want to be limited to 3 of the 40+ mechs I own because they're "not competative".

[Macksheen]

Restrictions on jump jets = fine. We can limit that kind of poptarting - but that has little to do with the torso/arm mobility restrictions put on some IS mechs recently. That isn't just about poptarting, it affects their ability to brawl.

In that respect, I'd agree I'd love to see the HGN, VCT, etc.have their torso/arm stuff reverted or at least toned back a hair. We don't need everyone pop-tarting, but I'm down with more brawling.

I'm fine w/ adjustments to jump jet feasibility, falling damage, etc. to discourage too much pop in your tart, but the torso/etc. stuff had nothing to do with that.

[LoPanShui]

Obvious Troll is obvious.

[Mark of Caine]

I personally agree with the idea from another post (can't remember where), to turn off the ability to fire weapons while in the air. I know it's a drastic move, but that would eliminate poptar-ding not only from IS mechs but Clan mechs too.

Played a few matches last night and saw several Mad Cats and Thors doing the poptar-d dance. It was awesome to smash their faces with my 4 ASRM6s and 4 Med Laser Battlemaster 1S, but the difficulty was getting in range.

I have absolutely no issues with players running sniper builds; hell even I run sniper builds from time to time. But I can count on one hand the number of times I stood there and did the poptar-d thing and oh my gawds is it every DULL! How anyone chooses to play this way is just beyond me.

As far as I'm concerned, JJs should be just for maneuverability, and not a compliment to your weapons loadout.

Edit: Stupid forums auto edits my poptar-d to poptart.

Edited by Caine2112, 20 June 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Silverlance]

Shoot him. Cut out his tongue. Hang him.

Hang him, shoot him, cut out his tongue then shoot his tongue.

[NRP]

You don't need to run a poptart to defeat a Clan mech. I see lots of SRM brawler IS mechs that totally wreck Clan mechs.

This thread sounds like nothing more than the typical "OMG!!! Something new and unfamiliar is here so Nerf it NAO!!!" thread when new content gets released.

I suggest the OP drive a few Clan mechs and see how it goes. From what I've seen, IS mechs hold their own pretty well.

[silverstripes]

We need to encourage multiple builds and tactics, not copy/paste what people are told is the "best".

[Rush Maguin]

Inner Sphere meta is not even remotely needed to beat clan tech. My win and loss ratio since the clan mechs dropped is completely unchanged, and I've played just as many matches in my Timber Wolf as I have my Thunderbolt and Atlas.

If you want to beat the clans- indeed, anyone - coordination and tactical thinking are key. Rolling up with three peeps using teamspeak and IS mechs, we stomped the other side flat - their clan mechs and all - in almost every game we played last night. And we did not pop tart even once.

Don't even worry about a meta.

[Sandtiger]

silverstripes, on 20 June 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

We need to encourage multiple builds and tactics, not copy/paste what people are told is the "best".

Agreed, limit a warriors skill by nerfing his equipment is not a balance. It is castration. I have spoken many times on the forums concerning the issue of "Balance"

All PGI has done is make mediocre players better, and excellent players mediocre. This game was all about using the build that best suites your style of game play.

You should not punish us for being exceptional pilots, you should encourage new people to practice, and become skilled.

[CronuxKobold]

Rather funny how just yesterday I charged a poptart victor in my stock nova prime and tore him to pieces with minimal damage. Such barbaric ways will not stop the clans.

[wanderer]

All encouraging poptarting will do is insure that we only see Clan poptarts- like the Timber Wolf with ER PPCs + Gauss.

No.

[DarthPeanut]

Jump sniping is not just IS meta... plenty of Timberwolves and Summoners with jump sniping setups showing up in matches.

As someone said above... all should be viable methods of play. Brawling, Sniping, Jump sniping, etc.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Personally, I believe that, not only should we encourage Inner Spheroids to poptart, but to also encourage poptarts in general to find the means to hold locks on targets while they poptart. That or encourage them to use NARCs more often, such as this Highlander poptart build that I designed in order to counter the inevitable domination of dakka-heavy Daishis (like this one here).

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

So, let me get this straight - you're watching the top MWO teams to get better, "discovered" the old meta (quite late, I might add) and because all the teams are using PPC/AC in the OLD footage, you think it's the best thing since sliced bread?

Clan players are taking clan ERPPC/ clan gauss in jumping timberwolves or boating clan ERLLAS. You can put pinpoint damage/safe long-range damage on even more mechs now.

Sorry, but a single build ideology isn't going to catapult you to victory...

[jaxjace]

you want your high alpha? try a stalker 5S or 3F load it with SRMs and M lasers, boom, 81 alpha at least, near pinpoint on IS srms, (thank you brian) they tend to always damage a single component, and make a ******* MESS of armor and critical locations. the med lasers are for backup after you burn through 5or more tons of SRM ammo out of your quad SRM6s.
Suck it clanners.

we dont need more poptart meta snipers, there are too many as it is. what we need to focus on is relearning the game to fight these ********.

[Tim East]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 June 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Sorry, but a single build ideology isn't going to *Puts on shades* catapult you to victory...

YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

Anyone else remember the gausscat meta? I distinctly recall using a variant of the early AC2 shake rattle and roll meta to counter those builds, back before they started getting nerfed. Metas change because they get countered. Eventually, the jumpsniping meta will either get nerfed or something else will get buffed to the point that a new, anti-jumpsniper meta takes hold. Welcome to metagames.