312 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Mystere, on 17 July 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

But considering it is a temporary situation, I'm not too worried about it

The fact that it's only temporary really doesn't change the current state of things at all.

It merely means that at some point in the future, it will be better. That fact doesn't make it better NOW.

The reason you don't worry about it now, is because, like me, you have access to the clan mechs now.

Of course, while I have access to the clan mechs now, I don't have my head so far up my ass as to try and pretend like it's not an issue to the people who have to wait months for access to those mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Roland, on 17 July 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

The fact that it's only temporary really doesn't change the current state of things at all.

It merely means that at some point in the future, it will be better. That fact doesn't make it better NOW.

The reason you don't worry about it now, is because, like me, you have access to the clan mechs now.

Of course, while I have access to the clan mechs now, I don't have my head so far up my ass as to try and pretend like it's not an issue to the people who have to wait months for access to those mechs.

Honestly, almost all the complaints are in regards to the Timberwolf and the Direwolf.

I've never used either, though I've never feared a DireWhale.

Timberwolf has good hitboxes, good hardpoints and mediocre tonnage. A giant engine makes it move quickly.


Perhaps you should ask someone to lend you their account to try them? I am tempted to try this "super OP" timberwolf.


Why don't you tell me how you would fix this "Clan imbalance."

[Jiang Wei]

Your statistics are going to be thrown way off once I am able to buy clan mechs with cbills.

[pulupulu]

and then there is the fact that one don't know how many clan vs IS mech is 2x basic, which would alter the data more.

prop to TC to crunch these numbers; I am more curious how long TC can last though.

Edited by pulupulu, 17 July 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[poohead]

OP - your post is one of the best and most informative posts on the forums.

Data, easily comprehensible, very detailed yet summarised succinctly, and clear about its limitations. And presented with some style!

It was a pleasant change to see some honest data instead of endless raging anecdotes.

The only thing it needs is MOAR DATAMABOBBINS!

[Mystere]

Roland, on 17 July 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

The fact that it's only temporary really doesn't change the current state of things at all.

It merely means that at some point in the future, it will be better. That fact doesn't make it better NOW.

The reason you don't worry about it now, is because, like me, you have access to the clan mechs now.

Can I do anything about the situation now? Can you? Can anyone in the player base?

PGI is obviously following a plan and a schedule and no amount of kicking and screaming like a little toddler can do anything about it. As such, people will just have to deal with it until they are available. But acting like this does absolutely nothing:

Roland, on 17 July 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

The reason you don't worry about it now, is because, like me, you have access to the clan mechs now.

Of course, while I have access to the clan mechs now, I don't have my head so far up my ass as to try and pretend like it's not an issue to the people who have to wait months for access to those mechs.

Well at least least I have a head with grey matter inside it. But some apparently have empty or not well developed ones. Otherwise, they wouldn't be adults acting like crybabies, especially for something they really have no control of.

And if they're teenagers, then the world is still f****d.

Edited by Mystere, 17 July 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[MischiefSC]

On the impact of 3x4.

In the 40 samples I have the clan population dropped to about 35%. I suspect it adds abiut 30 or 40 sec to heavies seach time , spreading them out more.

I have them in imgur Ill pm it to you.

[Kiiyor]

Jiang Wei, on 17 July 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Your statistics are going to be thrown way off once I am able to buy clan mechs with cbills.

Excellent point.

I've written some notes now to record Clan mech performance before and after CBill variants drop.

[Sandpit]

The numbers will change as far as representation but the numbers regarding damage, kills, longevity, etc. won't. What I mean is, yes they'll be adjusted as new(er) players and more of the population get to drive them but the overall
Mech A is just as effective as Mech B will not. I'm sure when they're released for cbills you'll see a significant drop in the number of IS mechs dropping in games overall but that's the same as when any new toy gets released. Everyone rushes to try it out, master it, etc. then it settles back down again.

I think it showed a lot of good data and trends though.

[Roland]

Mcgral18, on 17 July 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Honestly, almost all the complaints are in regards to the Timberwolf and the Direwolf.

I've never used either, though I've never feared a DireWhale.

Timberwolf has good hitboxes, good hardpoints and mediocre tonnage. A giant engine makes it move quickly.


Perhaps you should ask someone to lend you their account to try them? I am tempted to try this "super OP" timberwolf.


Why don't you tell me how you would fix this "Clan imbalance."

I actually own the Masakari package, and all of the clan mechs.

See, despite the fact that I have actually paid money for the mechs, that doesn't make me somehow believe that it's ok for them to be behind a paywall.

That is, just because it's not a problem for me personally, doesn't cause me to pretend it's not a problem for the playerbase as a whole... although there are certainly many who do exactly that.

[Mcgral18]

Roland, on 17 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I actually own the Masakari package, and all of the clan mechs.

See, despite the fact that I have actually paid money for the mechs, that doesn't make me somehow believe that it's ok for them to be behind a paywall.

That is, just because it's not a problem for me personally, doesn't cause me to pretend it's not a problem for the playerbase as a whole... although there are certainly many who do exactly that.

Well, I certainly don't feel the Cute Fox is OP, and the Nova has some pretty terrible hitboxes.

What part of the Clan package is OP?

[Naduk]

wondering if this outstanding work needs to be reviewed now that reconnects are in the game ?

[Grimlox]

Really awesome work by the OP. Thanks for taking all the time to put that together. I will send some unbiased screenshots your way if I get the chance.

[Void Angel]

Tezcatli, on 05 July 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

I think people can agree the clans have a higher DPS. But the IS meta builds are dangerous due to their pin point damage. But unless you're using a hit and run build. You're kinda in for a hard time. I know my LRM Treb feels pretty weak because of how easily it gets shredded by Clan builds. And it can't compete with Clan LRM builds, even if they supposedly suffer more to AMS, since not surprisingly a lot of people play without AMS.

Asmudius Heng, on 16 July 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

This is often not taken into account when people are talking about Clan Vs IS.

Everyone points to the high end meta of the IS to compare but never to any other mechs.

If the way to compete with clan mechs is to push the FLD PP meta as hard as you can then this speaks volumes to the power of clan mechs.

The thing is that Clans can do it as well with ERPPCs and Gauss and i see more and more of those on the battlefield as time goes by.

Clans are not outrageously OP but lets compare across a greater range of builds than focusing on the bleeding edge of competative meta.

Actually, I'm not sure about that. I've done very well in my Highlander, since the patch, true - even in spite of my jump jets being replaced with Type 1 Experimental Hill Climb Modules. I've also done well with my Atlas brawler, and my weapons on that 'mech are all 270m.

[Eboli]

I am happy to send you a bunch of screenshots as well. These ones can be as of tonight's gaming session. If so let me know!

Cheers!
Eboli.

[Asmudius Heng]

Quote

Actually, I'm not sure about that. I've done very well in my Highlander, since the patch, true - even in spite of my jump jets being replaced with Type 1 Experimental Hill Climb Modules. I've also done well with my Atlas brawler, and my weapons on that 'mech are all 270m.

I was under the impression that the highlander was not bleeding edge meta anymore? I could be wrong.

As for close range builds, in some ways face hugger builds for IS do better because the clan range advantage is nullified and IS mechs can do sword an shield much better in a knife fight.

The main thing is if you can close that range without being smacked hard.

I have also done very well with my twin gauss Jager but I know I m being killed more often through side torsos by can weapons than previously for a few different reasons such as: Less range advantage for my old closish sniper play, targeting computer seems to help with critting, Jager is poorly placed to spread damage in many situations so the additional DPS they have is more hurtful.

So anecdotally i can provide a counter experience - none of this matters as much as raw stats and some critical thinking though. We are in short supply of meaningful statistics through but this thread helps.

[Void Angel]

Oh, it's bleeding all right - meta has nothing to do with it. The thing feels like it's being lifted by a crane, not using Jump Jets, hence the reference to T1MMIE: Type 1 Mountain Mobility Interactive Equipment. =P

There is, however, more to the meta than jump jets. Not all meta 'mechs are poptarts, though it certainly helps; the metagame focuses on jump jets -and- long-range pinpoint damage. So the Highlander build I'm using (2 PPC, 2UAC/5) is still meta, but not much played because of its nerfed jets. I included its performance because it's the only meta Assault that I own, even with its limitations. Conversely, the Atlas is almost as non-meta as you can get; the only way to get less meta with that build would be to go back to my LB-10X shotgun stack. Even so, there are many ways to approach an objective under cover, and a brawler Atlas can still provide excellent corner-stomping firepower if you're patient and know brawling well. It's perhaps not for the novice, but you can do it.

As for needing statistics, you can help! Hug the OP and flood his email with (random) screen shots - For SCIENCE!

Of course, the meta is shifting - where it stops nobody knows - and it's been easier to get my Atlas into action. Heck, I've even been able to play my 4P Hunchbuddy properly, as an Assault support brawler! Overall, the Clan 'Mechs have been a real shot in the arm for variety of gameplay.

[Kiiyor]

Eboli, on 17 July 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

I am happy to send you a bunch of screenshots as well. These ones can be as of tonight's gaming session. If so let me know!

Cheers!
Eboli.

SEND IT!

[Thunderfrog]

I just sent you like 20 more as well.

[Kiiyor]

Thunderfrog, on 17 July 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

I just sent you like 20 more as well.

I saw, thanks! They're being fed through a grinder and being burned down to their constituent atoms and pure, undiluted, uncut data as we speak

At this rate, i'll have new numbers up on the weekend.