312 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Koniving, on 22 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

<--Is in 4 (technically 5) of the images. o.O;
Commando cockpit (motion blur complaint about missiles). (Btw, love the hands added in).
Dire Wolf firing (blue one)
(Was in the background of the Centurion fight)
AC/20 Raven 4X.
Firebrand

Lordred's Perfect Screenshot thread.

I've got a plug for ye olde thread of awesomeness in the new data, which I wanted to have up a couple of days ago. I meant to ask you guys for permission but got sidetracked by cookies or something.

Edit: lol, the hands were stolen shamelessly from far cry 3. You know what amazed me? How hard it was to craft GOOGLE sorcery that would find me a picture with someone's hands thrown up in fear.

Also, I trawl your thread almost daily looking for pictures of clan mechs being blown to pieces, but the picture with the three cents brawling it out is one of my favorite things ever.

Edited by Kiiyor, 22 July 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Kiiyor]

pulupulu, on 22 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

After like 1 week, I only manage to get 1 no (c) & no 0 dmg match... I think I will just post it here. I was hoping to get like 10 or something (and e-mail a pack)... but i just dont play enough i guess?

snip

You should send me all the shots anyways. Fun fact: out of 449 matches post 3/3/3/3 (i've got about another 80 or so to add in) only 83 matches were considered close, compared to 150 for the pre-3/3/3/3 batch, and only 10 had no 0 dmg or (C) mechs, compared to 25 in the previous data. IT'S TURMOIL I TELL YOU.

[Koniving]

Kiiyor, on 22 July 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Also, I trawl your thread almost daily looking for pictures of clan mechs being blown to pieces, but the picture with the three cents brawling it out is one of my favorite things ever.

It's a shame Lordred never put up the rest of the shots from that match. It was 2 Centurions versus a Centurion and a Treb.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Kiiyor, on 22 July 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Something like this?



I had just those stats to go into the new analysis, but yours sounds more inclusive. Time to unleash the awesome power of STACKED BAR CHARTS. Or just normal bar charts. Or a PIE chart, If i want any data analysts to letter bomb me.

Nothing that complex ... all I'm looking for is the distribution of casualties (total kills) per match.
(Edit: OK - how do you paste a table?)

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 22 July 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 July 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Nothing that complex ... all I'm looking for is the distribution of casualties (total kills) per match.
(Edit: OK - how do you paste a table?)

Heh, Excel?



Select the cells you want, and select Copy as Picture. Pick bitmap as the format in the popup that appears. Dump it into paint, drag the resultant file to IMGUR or some other free hosting site, and you're golden.

If you've got excel 2007, I think you have to select paste out of the menu, and "Copy as picture" is hidden there somewhere. Maybe.

It's not copy-able though, being an image.

Edit:

Just data like this?

Edited by Kiiyor, 22 July 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Figures ... at work and unable to access useful web tools (like imgur) ... all I really need is the number of matches (or percentage of matches) in which a certain number of total kills (not broken down by winner and loser, or clan and IS - only total) was acheived. Maybe something like this:

Kills _ 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
Matches __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 22 July 2014 - 08:50 PM.

[Blue Shadow]

Awesome work OP, but I can't help but wonder what the stats would be if teams were pure IS Vs Clan... Right now clan mechs benifit from having IS team members with PP damage weapons to help take off armour where it matters, and IS LRMs, not too mention more mechs with ECM or multi AMS.....if segregated I imagine the stats would show IS vs Clans to be more balanced or I could be wrong....just need to wait for CW now :-)

[Kiiyor]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 July 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Figures ... at work and unable to access useful web tools (like imgur) ... all I really need is the number of matches (or percentage of matches) in which a certain number of total kills (not broken down by winner and loser, or clan and IS - only total) was acheived. Maybe something like this:

Kills _ 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
Matches __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

Aaaaah, realization dawns.



let's try plain text:
# kills # matches 23 10 22 22 21 42 20 74 19 71 18 88 17 81 16 100 15 119 14 96 13 74 12 36 11 15 10 9 9 9 8 5 7 2 6 1 5 1 4 0 3 0 2 0 1 0 0 0


Bugger me! It worked!

Edit: lol, it did not work. Take 2:

# kills # matches
23 10
22 22
21 42
20 74
19 71
18 88
17 81
16 100
15 119
14 96
13 74
12 36
11 15
10 9
9 9
8 5
7 2
6 1
5 1
4 0
3 0
2 0
1 0
0 0

Edit: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
10 22 42 74 71 88 81 100 119 96 74 36 15 9 9 5 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0

Edited by Kiiyor, 22 July 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Kiiyor, on 22 July 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Bugger me! It worked!
Edit: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

This is perfect - THANKS!

[MischiefSC]

Seriously, Kiiyor.

You're a ******* boss, man. Many due props. I'd gift you MC if I could.

[lpmagic]

Kiiyor, on 22 July 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Something like this?



I had just those stats to go into the new analysis, but yours sounds more inclusive. Time to unleash the awesome power of STACKED BAR CHARTS. Or just normal bar charts. Or a PIE chart, If i want any data analysts to letter bomb me.

Eh, no one seems to be mentioning this particular snippet of information, I find it quite telling

#mechs with 1000 damage IS=7 Clan= 43

That is some serious disparity, now some of this can be chalked up to the relative ease of the solo queue (most of the time) I will be throwing rough numbers here but 7 is roughly 2% of the original 449 matches, whereas 43 is closer to 10% that is a 5:1 ratio of 1000 damage games. Now, many factors go into such things, were there a large portion of those 1000 damage games done by one or two individuals? even if not, the disparity is hugely apparent. I'm a fair pilot, and have had plenty of 1000 damage games etc.... but I will say, even a bad game in my clammers is usually above 500 and in an IS it'll be closer to 3-400.

Nothing really to read into this, and people drop 1000 point games plenty, but 5:1 is a pretty large difference, I realize damage is not the end all be all, however, in the correct hands it can be horribly deadly for people who can seriously do panel specific damage on a regular basis, a 1000 damage game usually means 6-8 kills are at least possible, sometimes even more. I just think this is a huge piece of the puzzle, and by the way, I'm seeing less and less clan mechs these days, they are still prevalent, but becoming less so IMHO>
Just an interesting point or two

[Jman5]

Those kills/match line up pretty well with how I thought they would. Although the number of 12-0s was higher than I anticipated. I very rarely see them in solo queue.

[Ultimax]

MischiefSC, on 22 July 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

Seriously, Kiiyor.

You're a ******* boss, man. Many due props. I'd gift you MC if I could.

I concur. This thread and Kiiyor's continued work is consistently excellent.

[RetroActive]

lpmagic, on 23 July 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Eh, no one seems to be mentioning this particular snippet of information, I find it quite telling

#mechs with 1000 damage IS=7 Clan= 43

That is some serious disparity, now some of this can be chalked up to the relative ease of the solo queue (most of the time) I will be throwing rough numbers here but 7 is roughly 2% of the original 449 matches, whereas 43 is closer to 10% that is a 5:1 ratio of 1000 damage games. Now, many factors go into such things, were there a large portion of those 1000 damage games done by one or two individuals? even if not, the disparity is hugely apparent. I'm a fair pilot, and have had plenty of 1000 damage games etc.... but I will say, even a bad game in my clammers is usually above 500 and in an IS it'll be closer to 3-400.

Nothing really to read into this, and people drop 1000 point games plenty, but 5:1 is a pretty large difference, I realize damage is not the end all be all, however, in the correct hands it can be horribly deadly for people who can seriously do panel specific damage on a regular basis, a 1000 damage game usually means 6-8 kills are at least possible, sometimes even more. I just think this is a huge piece of the puzzle, and by the way, I'm seeing less and less clan mechs these days, they are still prevalent, but becoming less so IMHO>
Just an interesting point or two

You have a great point. But also consider that this might be due to the fact Clan weapons are much less efficient than IS weapons. While those clan DoT weapons are spreading the damage around, IS weapons are concentrating their damage on one location, resulting in less overall damage.

[ShinobiHunter]

Adiuvo, on 22 July 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Dude... really, if you aren't losing STs consistently in IS mechs and you're not in an Awesome, it's because you're just staring back at your enemies instead of shielding. Really.

Or you're piloting a Dragon or Catapult.

[Ultimax]

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Clan XL - 10% advantage since most most IS mech kills come from a CT kill. Also don't often lose my side Torsos on the Stormcrow.

You are seriously undervaluing this.

I'm not sure where you pulled "10%" from, please prove your 10% figure.

If you are not losing side torsos on your Stormcrow, then you are not spreading to twist damage enough.

Clan XL is huge, it is easily one of the critical components of clan mech design in that it is stronger than XL, not quite as strong as STD but allows for more speed than the equivalent tonnage STD would grant.

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Clan ER-ML - Great range advantage but 30% greater burn time, hotter and slower re-fire again thanks to that 30% great burn time. Advantage at range but disadvantage under 300m.

The Clan ER ML is possibly the only clan laser where the burn time is irrelevant.

In 1s the Clan ER ML will do the same (a touch more actually) damage as an IS ML would do in the same 1s.

If you can keep it on target longer, you get bonus damage.

450m is an amazing range for a 1 ton weapon, for the cost of basically 1 extra heat per laser. This is worth it.

Any disadvantage you are finding under 300m is most likely in your usage.

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Clan Ultralight Weight launchers - you still only get 3 missile hard points unless you devote the arms to missiles. Fixed crits i the Stormcrow also have more limitations on build than IS mechs.

1) It is irrelevant how many launchers the build has. Lighter launchers means you have more weight for other weapons, or DHS, or ammo, etc. This cannot be denied.

2) The Stormcrows crits limitations are minimal.

3) Devoting the arms to missiles is a build choice, but you can either do 3x ASRM 6s + 4x ER MLAS or you can do 5x ASRM 6s. Or you can plop 2x LRM 15s for the measly cost of 7 tons. LRM 30 for 7 tons. There is so much flexibility added here for Stormcrows due to the light weight and omni-pod customization system.



SRMs in particular with their high damage vs. weight output ratio are a critical component of short range power for medium mechs - the clan takes that dynamic and even increases that ratio with lower weight.


And if you have not yet tried brawl range with 5x ASRM6s, I highly recommend giving it a go.

It's not the go-to mech for every situation but in the situation it is designed for it delivers.

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Excellent Hardpoint location - All the hardpoints except the torso launched missiles are located very low in the torso. Not excellent for sniping because by peeking over things, you expose 50% of your mech to enemy fire, before you can even see over the hill or whatever.

The torso mounted (not head) energy hardpoints are higher than your cockpit. All you need to do is find a hill, peek-a-boo and start reverse before your shot even goes off.

It's not as strong as poptarting, but it's the next best thing. This is what Stalkers do, except Stalkers are humongous and slow - the Stormcrow makes this work by being relatively small, slim and fast.

Maybe you tried this with cER LLAS? Their beam is too long. Try it with a cER PPC.

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Can do an energy build with 20 or more DHS - Again typically hotter weapons. IS Standard LL, ML and PPC are much cooler than Clan ER versions offsetting any difference in DHS amount. Clan gain range advantage but once IS weapons reach effective range, they are typically superior with faster re-firing rates, shorter burn times, etc.

The Stormcrow can leverage 20+ DHS with the unique clan aspect of being able to customize its entire hardpoint layout to combine energy / missiles / ballistics.

I don't want to be rude here, but you should spend more time in smurfy's before outright dismissing this.


So I reiterate, as I stated in my first post it is not any one single thing, it is a combination of multiple factors that make the Stormcrow such an amazing medium mech.

[lpmagic]

RetroActive, on 23 July 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

You have a great point. But also consider that this might be due to the fact Clan weapons are much less efficient than IS weapons. While those clan DoT weapons are spreading the damage around, IS weapons are concentrating their damage on one location, resulting in less overall damage.

Agreed wholeheartedly, one point to add though, the spread damage is mostly attributed to cerppc's , just one weapon really, and even to apread damage with lazers, you have to face your enemy far longer then the IS versions, which disallows the spreading of return fire and leaves you wide open for friends of your target to thump you., I feel strongly that this damage difference is largely related to range more then anything else, and survivability in the right hands, it takes timing to keep a beam on the whole time without getting chewed to pieces and balistics are just not being over utilized in clans like they used to be in IS so direct fire is lessened.

[RetroActive]

lpmagic, on 23 July 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Agreed wholeheartedly, one point to add though, the spread damage is mostly attributed to cerppc's , just one weapon really, and even to apread damage with lazers, you have to face your enemy far longer then the IS versions, which disallows the spreading of return fire and leaves you wide open for friends of your target to thump you., I feel strongly that this damage difference is largely related to range more then anything else, and survivability in the right hands, it takes timing to keep a beam on the whole time without getting chewed to pieces and balistics are just not being over utilized in clans like they used to be in IS so direct fire is lessened.

CERPPCs are not the culprit when it comes to clan weapons spreading damage everywhere. Clan lasers and AC's are the main culprit due to their DoT mechanic.

[Lordred]

This thread is incredible, continue the good work!

[lpmagic]

RetroActive, on 23 July 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

CERPPCs are not the culprit when it comes to clan weapons spreading damage everywhere. Clan lasers and AC's are the main culprit due to their DoT mechanic.

eh, a mixture of both, with the TBR meta build and the Direwhale meta build, along with the popularity of the stormcrow also running ppc's I see that as "one" of the main reasons, Clan Ballistics are pretty much universally considered DOA in general, for just the reason your mentioning, and the face time needed for standard energy weapons does indeed ensure some damage spread as the beam duration is long enough that if the target moves at all your going to spread some damage even just by accident. So I tend to agree with you, but the actual use of the ballistics is very very rare IMHO, lasers, yup the range draws people to use them all the time, I still think the dominant weapons are cerppc's (or at least the most widely used) followed by Gauss which spreads not at all. I just think the prevalence of the cerppc is a big reason for spread, biggest fan of srm's you may ever meet, but they spread the heck out of damage too, even with artemis....