26 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Stomp, on 26 June 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

They're just placeholder numbers. Says so right there. It's not a final idea, just a proof of concept showing how it might work. >.>

It doesn't matter IMO. A slow light is a dead light. Just saw a Jenner tonight that ran some garbage slow engine (probably running a STD engine). It got executed by me in a much faster Jenner.

The idea does not interest me whatsoever, given that sidecoring a target wtih an XL engine is instant death. The tradeoff exists. Now only if such a tradeoff was applied to XL engine (like a penalty for losing a side torso).

Your suggestion does not interest me at all.

[Aresye]

Stomp, on 26 June 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

I don't get it. Hit brawling how? Any respectable brawler knows he gets focused fast, and therefore brings a standard engine. XL Assaults are relegated to sniping and poptarting, which is literally the biggest pro meta tourney style build foreva, given you can't counterattack after they hide behind the hill. More info needed please.

Well there's different types of brawling, and most of it doesn't involve being in a standard engine going insanely slow in order to have enough firepower to brawl in the first place.

Any respectable brawler knows that speed and maneuverability = life, but the tonnage required to go fast enough on a standard engine means you have little to no firepower to brawl with.

[Reitrix]

Dymlos2003, on 26 June 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

Want a better solution? You can't change engines. You can only upgrade to XL/STD. Done.

Heh. And doing so would let the Clan Lights compete with IS Lights in terms of speed, since many stock Lights are around the 90 - 110 mark.

[Stomp]

Deathlike, on 26 June 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

It doesn't matter IMO. A slow light is a dead light. Just saw a Jenner tonight that ran some garbage slow engine (probably running a STD engine). It got executed by me in a much faster Jenner.

The idea does not interest me whatsoever, given that sidecoring a target wtih an XL engine is instant death. The tradeoff exists. Now only if such a tradeoff was applied to XL engine (like a penalty for losing a side torso).

Your suggestion does not interest me at all.

When I created this idea, I didn't mean for everybody to examine how it would impact their fave mechs, so I guess I should have expected this. However, a very slight nerf to torso twist isn't going to hurt a light that much. I expected most people to just accept the penalty for lights, given how useful it is to "gotta go fast". The problem is keeping heavies/mediums alive in an environment that thrives on being tanky, fast, and carrying tons of firepower. If you don't build a mech that can complement or do that, you're gonna have a bad time. So if it's harder to aim these weapons, it means they might at least consider using a standard in their heavy/assault, which means your fast light might be able to breathe a little easier, maybe downgrade the engine a couple pegs to move some more equipment. Just saying.

Aresye, on 26 June 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Well there's different types of brawling, and most of it doesn't involve being in a standard engine going insanely slow in order to have enough firepower to brawl in the first place.

Any respectable brawler knows that speed and maneuverability = life, but the tonnage required to go fast enough on a standard engine means you have little to no firepower to brawl with.

If you're just equipping fast XLs and lots of guns, sorry to say but that ain't brawling. Brawling is a huge ball of death. What you're describing is a opportunistic type of fighting where manueverability and huge firepower thrives... like poptarts and shizz, which this is meant to address. Any Assault going 48-55 kph using a STD will still have lots of firepower for guns. You just might not like those weapons, because most of them will be under 7 tons, haha.

Reitrix, on 26 June 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Heh. And doing so would let the Clan Lights compete with IS Lights in terms of speed, since many stock Lights are around the 90 - 110 mark.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing std-engine equipped lights, but I figured somebody who cry me a river if I suggested it. Baby steps haha.

[Mawai]

I'm not sure this would fix anything ...

I have run AC40 Jagers, dual gauss K2/Jagger and other builds with STD engines. They are slower but typically more survivable.

The same goes for any other combination of mechs ... the trade off is speed vs. vulnerability of the XL ... you can usually find a STD engine for any build that will work ... you just end up a bit slower.

So, what happens? Folks would look at whatever the nerfed torso twist rate is for an XL, compare to torso twist from whatever STD engine will fit, decide whether speed or turning is more useful and fit the corresponding engine.

Changing XLs may change some build choices in some details but it wouldn't significantly impact the effect of PP FLD weapons (to use the acronyms of choice for the current weapon meta-game).

[Koniks]

Stomp, on 26 June 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

With more assaults running STD engines, the overall capability of snipers to boat huge weapon loads would go down, which I believe would mean playing a light/medium running a smaller engine would definitely stand a fighting chance.

One of my points is that jumpshot mechs wouldn't switch to standard engines. They largely don't care about the agility nerfs. So every other build that relies on XL engines would be hurt far more.

You also have a really rigid definition of brawling. Brawling is synonymous with close quarters combat. There are lots of ways to go about it.

Edited by Mizeur, 27 June 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Deathlike]

Stomp, on 27 June 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

When I created this idea, I didn't mean for everybody to examine how it would impact their fave mechs, so I guess I should have expected this. However, a very slight nerf to torso twist isn't going to hurt a light that much. I expected most people to just accept the penalty for lights, given how useful it is to "gotta go fast". The problem is keeping heavies/mediums alive in an environment that thrives on being tanky, fast, and carrying tons of firepower. If you don't build a mech that can complement or do that, you're gonna have a bad time. So if it's harder to aim these weapons, it means they might at least consider using a standard in their heavy/assault, which means your fast light might be able to breathe a little easier, maybe downgrade the engine a couple pegs to move some more equipment. Just saying.

Like the PTS server with the fall damage, it's hurting Lights disproportionately more than "the poptarts" it was aimed for. It's a terrible fix. You're nerfing a weight class that DOES NOT NEED A NERF (unless you can't shoot them worth a damn, in which case, you should practice).

Fact is, Lights CURRENT serve 15% of the server OR LESS (occasionally dipping in the single digits). Literally, this solution is doing NOTHING to help that reality.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 June 2014 - 09:38 AM.