Jump to content

Ammo Storage And Explosion Chance

Balance Weapons Loadout

5 replies to this topic

#1 Capnflintlock

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 193 posts

Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:31 PM

Ammo explosions used to be a terrifying thing in mechwarrior, but now however they rarily occur. This happens for two reasons. One, Ammo can be stored in the legs and head, so they're rarely destroyed unless the respective mech carrying them is a light mech. Two, the ammo explosion chance in this game is pitifully low, nothing like what it was when compared to beta. So even if you did destroy 3 tons of an enemy mechs ammunition, you only have like a 30% chance of procing an explosion( last I heard it was a 10% proc rate). This doesn't make any sense for me. So a laser, capable of boiling armor plates off a mech is unable to heat up ammunition to the point when it cooks off? If its destroyed, it just doesn't go boom? It should explode 100% of the time when its destroyed(unless its gauss rifle slugs), and only proc like 10-30% when non fatally critically hit because the ammo bin might have withstood the hit.

Ammo explosions were a weakness of ballistic and missile weapons, and were also the reason CASE WAS INVENTED. If players chose to run standard engines, they could use said case and play like normal as it wouldn't be fatal to them, whereas an XL might instantaneously die. You get all of that extra power and weight savings from the XL at increased vulnerabilty, which ammo explosions in part helped produce.

"but people were dying too fast when the explosion rates were high", how much you wana bet that those people weren't using Standard engines and Case? But I do agree at times it was a bit extensive. However, there were certain ways it could have been handled better than just moving the go boom chance slider all the way to the left.

I've seen people mentioning a "dumping ammo function" around the forums, and I generally really like this idea. If an ammo bin is struck and it starts a chain reaction, you'd start taking damage over time from shells going off like fireworks in your mech instead of one giant ass explosion instantaneously. This would give you time to manually eject the ammo before it cooks off any further. If however, an ammo bin was destroyed in its entirety, it would just explode, because all of the ammo would have been hit at once, instead of a minor breach in the bin. Additionally, different ammo types could behave differently

AMS, Machinegun, and AC rounds would fire forward in random directions, striking various components as it makes its way to the armor, damaging it from the inside. It could work like the current critical hit system. ~40% chance to crit at least one time, with a chance to either deal full damage to internals, partial damage to internals and armor, or full damage to armor. The lighter the ammo type, the less damaging over time it would be and easier to eject. So for example, if a machinegun or AC2 ammo bin starts cooking off, you'd have plenty of time to eject it out of the mech and would only have taken minimal damage. If however, you're unfortunate to have an AC20 ammo bin cook off, you're pretty much ****** as a single shell could possibly instantly kill you based on your situation.

SRMS and LRMS would behave differently depending on how they were hit. If overheated or hit by a glancing blow, LRMS would fire forward and cause minimal damage through a physical impact to the internals of a mech, much like a bullet, due to them not being armed at a certain distance. If destroyed however, the LRM's warhead would detonate. The srm ammo bins would explode regardless of how they were struck(They wouldn't cook off, but just fly foward and hit the edge of the bin and detonate, blowing all of the other srms up in an instantaneous reaction)

Flamers could then be introduced as the weapon in the game to be used specifically for that purpose. They'd cause low crit damage compared to mgs, but would have a higher chance on each proc to cause an ammo explosion to occur.

So if a mech gets it armor breached, a pilot would have to weigh the risk vs reward of keeping that exposed ammo vulnerable to the enemies fire. If he found it to be too great of a risk, he could dump it, preventing any chance of him going boom. This could help alleviate the whole RNG issue of getting your ammo crit, by having the player able to directly influence the dice roll.

As for where ammo is located. I've always found it ridiculous that you could store ammo in legs for upper body weapons, even with the whole ammo elevator bullsnot. A system like that just wouldn't seem practical to me as the leg internal structure and actuators take up so much space, you just couldn't visibly see ammunition going around a knee joint without a chance of jamming. I could see ammo feeding directly into a leg weapon, but moving upward to a torso or arm, I don't see how it'd be possible.

TL:DR / Closing comments
So ammunition explosions don't happen very often, and people just store their ammo in the legs anyway, rendering case useless, and very unlikely to ever make a mech go pop. So I'd like to remedy this in a variety of ways. Either A.) remove the ability to store ammo in the legs for weapons that aren't in that respective area, B.) provide recycle bonuses for mechs with ammunition stores that are adjacent to their respective weapon system, aka maybe a 10% faster reload time if you keep your AC10 ammo in the same part of the mech the AC10 is in, or C.) increase ammo explosion rate drastically, in a way similar to being mentioned above with the ability to dump ammo, as there's really no risk to carrying ammo in the legs.

Edits: Grammar

Edited by Capnflintlock, 26 June 2014 - 02:37 PM.


#2 Veranova

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 542 posts
  • LocationLondon, UK

Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:33 PM

I just want the popcorn back <_<

#3 ToxinTractor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 295 posts
  • LocationBC Canada

Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:33 PM

Ehh yea, this idea isnt that bad at all. If anything ammo explosions are a annoying thing these days

#4 Spike Brave

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Solitary
  • The Solitary
  • 695 posts
  • LocationIn your base, killing your dudes

Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:43 PM

I would suggest aiming at legs. If a mech has ammo I always go for the legs because you are right about everybody sticking ammo there. I get lots of kills shooting the ammo out of peoples' socks.

#5 Levi Porphyrogenitus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 4,763 posts
  • LocationAurora, Indiana, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way

Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:50 PM

If ammo explosions need to be changed at all, here is how to do it:

1 - Calculate the number of steps between the ammo and the weapon (number of areas between the one holding the ammo and the one holding the weapon).

2 - Increase ammo explosion chance by +20% per area between the two (base 10%, and ammo in the head and gun in the arm is 2 areas, for +40%, total of 50% chance when ammo is destroyed for it to explode).

3 - Only count the areas between the ammo that gets crit and the nearest compatible weapon.

Why do it this way? More distance means more ammo is being fed through the mech to service the weapon, putting said ammo at greater risk of exploding and putting that ammo in more vulnerable areas. Plus, this puts a hard cap on how likely ammo is to explode (arm to arm, or +60% for a total of 70%), and is relatively easy to predict in the mechlab when building yoru mech. It's a far better solution than arbitrarily restricting ammo placement, and could actually be justified by more than simply gameplay.

#6 Wolfways

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • 6,499 posts
  • LocationIn a shutdown overheated mech near you.

Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:57 PM

You're forgetting one massive nerf that ammo-based weapons have already had.
CPLT-C1 (2 tons LRM ammo)
JM6-S (1 ton AC2 ammo, 2 tons AC5 ammo)

Try playing with that amount of ammo.
BT Mechs, weapons and ammo counts are designed for a TT match that lasted a few minutes. PGI increased the time to up to 15 minutes and doubled the armour, and increased the RoF of weapons.
Ammo per ton in MWO is incredibly low, and should be increased. My JM6-S (with stock weapons) needs around 9 tons of ammo to last most of a match, so imo normal ammo/ton should be tripled.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users