155 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Mystere, on 27 June 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Call me a special snowflake is you must ( ), but I chose the mech I ride for the role I want to play. And the only incentive I need to play a role is winning, not c-bill or XP.

And that is awesome and when I run a light mech I am a scout, I am an FO. I am not a tiny assault mech. BUT just because you can doesn't make it exist in terms of the game. It may seem pedantic but it's the difference between only the handful of people doing it because the REALLY want to vs. people learning and growing into the role because it's a reinforced part of the game.

I mean if you look a the reward system as it stands you are only really encouraged to rack up the most damage and kills as possible. spotting is a joke, especially since in most cases it's as easy to get the spotting bonuses in any mech once the furball starts.

The capacity is there it just needs to be reinforced so that more people will care, it's the difference between whether many people will run light mechs or not, and I think you do know that.

I won't even get started on the lack of proper recon and information warfare here.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 June 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sorry what? Make up your mind? Sounds like you are now changing your story. Why don't you just exit the thread.

Split more hairs.

I should have said, I was behind an aircraft so the LRM boaters couldn't see me, but that said aircraft is not tall enough to shield against LRMs. So I was fine, until I got NARCed. I didn't think I needed to go into that much detail, all I was doing was describing how NARC can screw someone over, plain and simple. No "It's not fair needs nerf", or "its breaking the game, PGI needs to fix".

Why are you so hostile? Its not my fault you are wrong and didn't fully understand my situation but acted like you did. I never even said I was blaming LRMs but you accused me of it. Just calm down. I am not even calling for nerfs to NARC and LRMs by any means.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 27 June 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Mercules]

Agent of Change, on 27 June 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

I mean if you look a the reward system as it stands you are only really encouraged to rack up the most damage and kills as possible. spotting is a joke, especially since in most cases it's as easy to get the spotting bonuses in any mech once the furball starts.

This is the issue I have with the Rewards system. Any Assault can gain the same rewards that supposedly are supposed to help out those performing the role of "scout". In fact the guys in the furball get my "spotting" rewards and I don't. I swing out to the side and get LoS on the mech, they target him as well despite being in cover. LRMs start flying and because they are the closest mech targeting him, they get the spotter bonus.

So, often NARC and TAG are ways to earn XP in a Light mech. It's slower than dishing damage and killing mechs in a Heavy, but at least I get more than the "win" and some damage XP, maybe a component destruction and a few assists.

I actually get LESS XP, Scouting properly where I find a good place to observer from and target the enemy but don't fire as that would give away my position. I get diddly for doing that. So most lights build for "skirmishing" and do that and role warfare dies a quiet death in the corner.

[Agent of Change]

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

This is the issue I have with the Rewards system. Any Assault can gain the same rewards that supposedly are supposed to help out those performing the role of "scout". In fact the guys in the furball get my "spotting" rewards and I don't. I swing out to the side and get LoS on the mech, they target him as well despite being in cover. LRMs start flying and because they are the closest mech targeting him, they get the spotter bonus.

So, often NARC and TAG are ways to earn XP in a Light mech. It's slower than dishing damage and killing mechs in a Heavy, but at least I get more than the "win" and some damage XP, maybe a component destruction and a few assists.

I actually get LESS XP, Scouting properly where I find a good place to observer from and target the enemy but don't fire as that would give away my position. I get diddly for doing that. So most lights build for "skirmishing" and do that and role warfare dies a quiet death in the corner.

See what i mean I about being in agreement. My only gripe it technical accuracy and allowing PGI to get away with ANYTHING they haven't earned at this point. I'll give credit where it's due but i'll be damned if I don't point out every single flaw until they start actually patching the massive holes in the game they sold us.

[Galenit]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 June 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Because I disagree, it does suck, and it isn't always avoidable.

Why should a light give 5 tons if its not for a system that makes the enemys day a bad day?

But its allways a gamble in pug games, you can have some without many lrms, you can have matches with lots of lrms but noone is shooting on the narc but on hills, their allys, their own feed or some birds.
And then you have the match where you are on the right map and have some great lrm users in your team and the enemy has only a single ddc as ecm carrier. This is when the sky becomes dark and the rain follows you, melting your enemys faster then your narc recycles.

About rewards:
You need to fire at all enemys you mark as target to get some good money from it. But it gives your position away. If you do good work with narc, spotting, counterecm and do the assist thing you can get around 200k out of it, if its a good fight with lot of lrm users.

Edited by Galenit, 27 June 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Galenit, on 27 June 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

[/size]
Why should a light give 5 tons if its not for a system that makes the enemys day a bad day?

But its allways a gamble in pug games, you can have some without many lrms, you can have matches with lots of lrms but noone is shooting on the narc but on hills, their allys, their own feed or some birds.
And then you have the match where you are on the right map and have some great lrm users in your team and the enemy has only a single ddc as ecm carrier. This is when the sky becomes dark and the rain follows you, melting your enemys faster then your narc recycles.

Of course ! I agree that it should suck. That's why I don't think anything needs to be changed/nerfed.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 27 June 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[nemesis271989]

Mystere, on 27 June 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Just because another person agrees with you does not mean it is a real problem. I'm just saying.

If majority of people tend to buy Apple cellphones it doesn't mean that Apple is the best cellphone.
If majority of people love to use LRM and backstabbing tactics it doesn't mean that this is the best tactics.
If majority of people of people are denying a problem just to keep their LRMs it doesn't mean that the problem does not exist.

I'm just saying.

[Peenutts]

I'm not seeing any of this. LRM are in use, just like every other weapon is.....
You must be a meta tart?

[wanderer]

If people used LRM counters as much as they think people use LRMs, most missiles would never reach a target.

Fun comparison- if every 'Mech on the team had AMS + 1 ton of ammo, it'd be (12x 1.5) = 18 tons of gear. And it'd basically disable Clan LRMs and rip most IS salvos a new one, even bigger ones if they fired into the usual deathballs.

Two LRM 10's with Artemis and 6 tons of ammo is 18 tons of gear. People frequently invest 18 tons in weaponry, yet won't take 1/12 of that for a defensive measure. Until they do and the results are common, I don't see LRMs as a problem for anyone except the bads- because not enough people consider LRMs a threat yet- and most of them aren't even bothering with investing in the most minimal forms of general defense.

Edit note: And if you saw people using even half of that in ECM, never mind AMS you'd likely see even fewer missiles hit targets. Also 1.5 tons per 'Mech (that can use them).

Edited by wanderer, 27 June 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Voivode]

I've noticed more LRMs, but that's not bad since a lot are clanner lrms and more susceptible to AMS. Also, more brawling since clans came out / SRMs got fixed. Can't complain about gameplay, seen a lot of pop tarts get their sh*t pushed in by brawly mechs. That's pretty satisfying.

[Lightfoot]

I see alot of LRMs, but rarely ever see them hit or get hit by them. They are just too easy to spoof and avoid. Some players want to run through them for some reason and they get destroyed. They are area denial weapons and not much good for anything else.

LRMs won't stop a mech coming at them with AC10's or AC20's unless the distance is huge. There are more AC10's and 20's, so isn't MWO AC10 and 20 crazy instead?

It's always popular to dislike LRMs and missiles in general, but that has nothing to do with balance.

Edited by Lightfoot, 27 June 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Mercules]

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

If majority of people tend to buy Apple cellphones it doesn't mean that Apple is the best cellphone.
If majority of people love to use LRM and backstabbing tactics it doesn't mean that this is the best tactics.
If majority of people of people are denying a problem just to keep their LRMs it doesn't mean that the problem does not exist.

I'm just saying.

Um...

1/4 of U.S. parents surveyed believe that some vaccines can cause autism in healthy children despite the fact that less than 2 years ago over 25 studies were published with peer reviewed result using the scientific method studying over 14million children found that there was no link between vaccinations and autism.

Why?

Because someone once published a paper based off a study they did that wasn't peer reviewed, had no control group, was statistically shaky, and drew poor conclusions from illogical arguments. Now those parents are giving into fearm ongering and using poor logic to perpetuate this myth.

Stop doing that with LRMs.

I agree that Appeal to Majority is a fallacy a lot fall into, but this is not it. At the same time there are a lot of people who perceive a "problem existing" when the only problem is a failure of their own to adjust their own behavior. The issue is not LRMs, it is that YOU have not yet figured out how to deal with them. I'm not yelling "L2P Newb!" at the top of my lungs but if the person using them and the person getting hit with them are both good then LRMs are marginal, if the person using them is bad and the person getting targeted with them is good they are harmless, if the person using them is good and the person being targeted is bad they are "OMFG-BBQ!!!!1!".

Edited by Mercules, 27 June 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Wolfways]

I just had a few games in my C1 and there was nothing but ECM and AMS everywhere, and i usually try to get my own locks not just sit at the back.
I was basically playing a 65ton mech with 4xML's, and around 20ton missing

[Sephlock]

Wolfways, on 27 June 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

I just had a few games in my C1 and there was nothing but ECM and AMS everywhere, and i usually try to get my own locks not just sit at the back.
I was basically playing a 65ton mech with 4xML's, and around 20ton missing

That's not true! Some of it could EXPLODE on you!

[Sahoj]

LRM's have to be viable as a counter versus jump snipers.

I'll take LRM boats over Jump Snipers every day of the week.

AMS and a half ton of ammo only costs 1 ton.

Stop crying.

[Abivard]

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Um...

1/4 of U.S. parents surveyed believe that some vaccines can cause autism in healthy children despite the fact that less than 2 years ago over 25 studies were published with peer reviewed result using the scientific method studying over 14million children found that there was no link between vaccinations and autism.

Why?

Because someone once published a paper based off a study they did that wasn't peer reviewed, had no control group, was statistically shaky, and drew poor conclusions from illogical arguments. Now those parents are giving into fearm ongering and using poor logic to perpetuate this myth.

Stop doing that with LRMs.

I agree that Appeal to Majority is a fallacy a lot fall into, but this is not it. At the same time there are a lot of people who perceive a "problem existing" when the only problem is a failure of their own to adjust their own behavior. The issue is not LRMs, it is that YOU have not yet figured out how to deal with them. I'm not yelling "L2P Newb!" at the top of my lungs but if the person using them and the person getting hit with them are both good then LRMs are marginal, if the person using them is bad and the person getting targeted with them is good they are harmless, if the person using them is good and the person being targeted is bad they are "OMFG-BBQ!!!!1!".

You left out one:

If the player using LRM's is bad, and the player targeted by him is bad, the targeted guy will die.

[Mercules]

Abivard, on 27 June 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

You left out one:

If the player using LRM's is bad, and the player targeted by him is bad, the targeted guy will die.

You're right... I was in a hurry.

You can actually be "good with LRMs" they are not a no skill weapon. Against people who don't know how to deal with them, however they are so overwhelming anyone can use them and kill.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Varent, on 27 June 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

So what your saying is you would prefer to be jump snipped to death without the possibility of reprecussion, or are you one of those jump snipers thats mad because hes getting whats been coming to him?

Butt hurt due to snipers...
Butt hurt due to lrms...

Lawls all around.

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

You can actually be "good with LRMs" they are not a no skill weapon. Against people who don't know how to deal with them, however they are so overwhelming anyone can use them and kill.

Indeed...Whereas not anyone can be a good sniper. I play both but have always respected a good sniper far more than a good lurmer.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 27 June 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[Mystere]

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

If majority of people tend to buy Apple cellphones it doesn't mean that Apple is the best cellphone.

Of course they are.

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

If majority of people love to use LRM and backstabbing tactics it doesn't mean that this is the best tactics.

But it may mean that they actually work.

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

If majority of people of people are denying a problem just to keep their LRMs it doesn't mean that the problem does not exist.

Or maybe the people saying otherwise just can't handle LRMs or are unable to adapt -- especially when there are a lot of people who can.

Just saying.

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Against people who don't know how to deal with them, however they are so overwhelming anyone can use them and kill.

And that is bad because?

[Sjorpha]

These are the changes I'd like to see:

Notification for narc.

Ecm changed from hard to soft counter.

Radar deprivation module changed from hard to soft counter.

Ams getting on/off toggle + los.

Small damage buff for LRMs but slightly reduced rate of fire, this would make the rare 20 tube mechs more interesting.

Edited by Sjorpha, 28 June 2014 - 01:58 AM.