19 replies to this topic

[Soulblight]

*Warning* There is a lot of


in this topic


Obviously im looking for a very beginner-friendly heavy mech. C-Bills/Funds are not a primary concern, its really all about easy handling. No Heroi/MC-only variants. Since i still hate all sorts of Long-Range-Missiles, even if they are noob friendly, the choices become maybe a little bit clearer.



I already used google and narrowed it down to 2 mechs. This 2 guides

http://sgt-thaddeus....ech-builds.html
http://www.mercenary....php?topic=65.0

both strongly recommend the cataphract (-variants) and the Jagermech (-variants). Both posts are not too old either, but take it with a grain of salt. I have no idea, how the Orion performs fyi

1. Question: cataphract or jagermech - any other viable choices?

2. One of the guides even put the cataphract above the jagermech, describing it as "godlevel" regarding its performance, while the jagermech is *only* very good. Your opinion and why you agree/disagree

3. In any case, go for XL engines later or better stay with std, because its noob friendly?

I think thats all for now :>

[Chimerahawk]

Well, as far as Cat vs Jag goes the extra tonnage a cataphract has goes a very long way. It means you can put more versatile loadouts on it, that might not work very well on a Jagermech, and sacrifice less than you would have to on a Jager. The Cataphract trades something off for that, and that's its low slung arms. They're also a bit wide with its body shape, and this can make it frustrating if you're piloting a longer range build.

The Jagermech, while it can carry less weapons, has very high arms as I'm sure you've noticed. This puts it at a great advantage in long range combat. It can also move faster in general than the Cataphract. However, since it's mostly a ballistic boat, it's lower tonnage does hurt it. It's also just slighty hard to hit in general, because it's not anywhere near as wide as the Cataphract is.

They put a certain varient of the Cataphract above the Jagermech, and the other cataphracts. The CTF-3D, is able to equip jump jets, and has 2 energy points in its torso. Perfect PPCs, making it an extremely common poptart meta mech.

Also, when it comes to XL vs STD, in my opinion you may as well give a new player an XL. It means they'll be faster, and have more weapons. They probably aren't going to be able to torso twist or spread damage very well in the first place, so chances are they'll get cored anyways.

Also, if you haven't seen this website do check it out.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

Edited by Chimerahawk, 27 June 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[Spheroid]

No missiles? How about a Thunderbolt-9SE? It can run an all energy loadout and jump with while using a 260-300 STD.

Edited by Spheroid, 27 June 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Spheroid, on 27 June 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

No missiles? How about a Thunderbolt-9SE? It can run an all energy loadout and jump with while using a 260-300 STD.

Not bad, though I'd have to stick with recommending the Cataphract or Jagermech.

Something else to consider is you'll need 3 to master the mech. Thus, particularly for one of your first mechs, you want a chassis with a decent set of variants allowing broad loadout options.

The Cataphract is excellent for this, as it has several very strong contenders with quite different play styles. The Jagermech is also good, with 2 very strong variants and a third (the DD) which isn't bad, but doesn't really offer anything the others don't already do.

The Thunderbolt.... Eh. The jumping SE is interesting, and ballistic variant is decent, but they're not as effective as either of the above. Same tonnage as a Jag, but without the awesome high mounted arms. The Cataphract is just better.

Also, both the Cataphract and the Jagermech have excellent hero mech options, should you decide to get one in the future (maybe from one of your three variants for Mastery). It's not necessary at all, but the Ilya is still arguably the closest thing to P2W available in Hero Mechs, and the Firebrand is really great as well.

[Redshift2k5]

Cataphract and Jagermech are both solid choices, have a look around mechspecs.com for any specific builds you want to take, or just pick either one you like better.

[Koniving]

Of the two, given your post history Soul, I would recommend a Jagermech.

Here's my reasoning: With armlock on or off, the mech does not have any lower arm actuators. This means aiming is very simplified versus say an Atlas RS.

If you plan to use one, I recommend the JM6-DD first because you will need an XL engine and that variant gives you the XL engine first. It's not a great XL engine, but it is enough to start with.

From there it's your choice in weapons. Most people like to slap on twin AC/20s. You can tie them one to a button or fire them at the same time. Because of how incredibly deadly that combination is, PGI slapped ghost heat on it. You can still squeeze off 2 or 3 volleys of 40 damage each before worrying about it though.

Alternatively, twin AC/10s would give you a lot more range, backed up with some MGs and lasers if you like. Some even go twin AC/5s + twin PPCs + quad MGs. There is also the 4 AC/5 setup that is very popular. No matter what they are sadistically cruel combinations.

Enjoy.
---------
As always I stray from the norm and designed a rig that lets me ignore heat management and kill things in a delightful way.
My personal Terra Therma means bathing in air conditioning rig in action. Note this isn't a kill efficient rig, just my personal one for relaxing uncomplicated gameplay. I've replaced the UAC/5 with an AC/5 since this recent patch.

Edited by Koniving, 27 June 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 27 June 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

If you plan to use one, I recommend the JM6-DD first because you will need an XL engine and that variant gives you the XL engine first. It's not a great XL engine, but it is enough to start with.

That and it can do the 6MG or 2LBAC/4MG combos - which are great for stripping components and earning Cbills

[Itsalrightwithme]

At lower elo levels the choice doesn't matter as much, at higher elo level the CTF gets serious advantage due to hitbox and JJ (for the 3D). The JM hitbox is such that it is easy to take out. The CTF is a lot more durable.

If you are solo pugging get an XL CTF. Or XL JM.

There is an advantage to the JM which is it is easy to progress through them. Once you find one good build, you can replicate it on other variants. With the CTF you tend to end up with very different builds for each variant.

[Hamish McPiton]

The only thing I'll add is as a new player the plain unlocked Jager is a little "tanky" and slow - and from driving the trial Phract it feels the same way, too. Now that I have mastered all three regular Jagers they really perform. It's like going from big slow truck to an all wheel drive rally car. If the Jager had JJ - wow. But it doesn't. I'm at the point of looking at my second mech chassis and the Phracts look good.
Until I cave to peer pressure and get back my Madcat from MW3., ha ha.
I think it come down to if you want the choice of a meta build with JJ or not. I did a couple of Full Jager Lance drops last week against clan mechs - just destroyed enemy teams. A Jager A with lrms, two ac5 or ultra ac5 chainsaw builds with a ac40 Jager playing protector for the A until the enemy team is half gone from the lrms -then going out as the hammer - still amazingly destructive. And a full lance of chainsaw builds or ac40's - "Hello Direwolf - goodbye Direwolf'.

[Elizander]

Jagers allow for higher aiming due to the mounts. You will have some frustration battling hills and slopes in a Cataphract, but they'll win out eventually because they can jump. Simple -> Jagers.

[DarkonFullPower]

Buy a Dragon. After you die 300+ times in a row your situational, tactical, and strategic senses will go through the roof.

[Varro Thaddeus]

Since CBills are not remotely a concern; I would say shoot straight for the Cataphract 3D. Once mastered (as in played well), it's extremely rewarding.

I love my Jagermechs; but I find that the Mech is extremely fragile, specially with an XL. It is however very noob friendly in that if you still play with Arm Lock on; well as Kon said above, no Lower Arm Actuators or Arm Lock on; the difference is practically negligable. But still, it's the fragility that kills the Jagermech for me, that and the poptart meta makes those Side Torsos even more fragile.

The Phract 3D has better maneuverability in the form of Jump Jets. And unfortunately, it can poptart extremely well. It's also way more survivable than the Jager. The low hung arms are quite annoying, but that can be negated by the Jump Jets. In addition, the variants of Phract each have a very different playstyle to a degree. There's much more fun to be had with different builds rather than practically the same one across the board.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Phracts and jaegers are great choices... I doubt you will regret getting either of those mechs.

Ballistics are great weapons for new players as well as seasoned vets. I personally rate my self as a poor player, but dual ppc + ac or gauss combo keeps me in the score boards due to ease of use. Press a button... And do 30+ dmg to 1 location hurts any target your looking at.

[Soulblight]

Thanks for all the advice.

I bought the Jagermech in the end, even if the cataphract might be a better long term choice for versatility. I feel the high point ballistic slots are very good for new players and UAC5/AC5 / whatever are kinda easy mode and very forgiving if you misss a shot. I feel its the perfect newguy choice, but then again, the cataphract has its own special advantages and other players might enjoy the jgaer more.

I went for Dakka Dakka Jagermech and like it

[Hamish McPiton]

Be sure to check mechspecs.com for build ideas.

[Ovion]

If you're actually going to go out and pilot it, rather than shut down every game and shoot your team mates, I'll give you some advice on how to put together an amazing Jager.

[Salacious Sparrow]

I know a few things you can do to a Jager that won't get you arrested.

[Beaching Betty]

As a Jager player myself, honestly, my first heavy was a CAT and then after a few days, I sold him back cause I just could not connect with it's soul then my second mech is *drum roll* Yes, you are right! Jagermech! Oh baby, you gotta be careful when you're against a good Jager pilot I own the Firebrand(Hero), the S and the A.

Why I think it's better than CAT? Haha, funny question my man. It is all personal preferance Some may like it, some may not. If I like it, that does not mean you will like it like how I do and also, Jager looks far more cool looking that CAT IMO, CAT looks like a bulky fat guy while a Jag looks like a smart muscular dude

XL or STD? I put it this way, if Im going in close or medium, Im going STD just so when my torso get blown off, I wont instantly die due to torso explosion. When Im supporting from long range with my LLaser or PPC/Gauss, XL is the way to go!

[Toiletbrush]

DarkonFullPower, on 28 June 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Buy a Dragon. After you die 300+ times in a row your situational, tactical, and strategic senses will go through the roof.

so very true
if you make it in dragon,you can make it with anything
but to be on the safe side i agree that the phract and jager are most used
but i urge you not to overlook the orion

[Salacious Sparrow]

zeyqer, on 01 July 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

Why I think it's better than CAT? Haha, funny question my man. It is all personal preferance

XL or STD? I put it this way, if Im going in close or medium, Im going STD just so when my torso get blown off, I wont instantly die due to torso explosion. When Im supporting from long range with my LLaser or PPC/Gauss, XL is the way to go!

Assuming you're talking about the phract, not the pult, the Jager outperforms them from a ballistic angle given how well placed and compact it's arms are, and if you're running the Firebrand, that's a whole nother layer of awesome with energy hardpoints on it's little stubby arms. Oh and it's ludicrously easy to build on, pick a ballistic weapon, put 2 of them on the jager (or in the case of small cannons like ac2-5 MGs put whatever number fits) and two medium lasers and you've built a jager, stuff it with ammo and heatsinks if they're needed.

As for xl vs standard I disagree, if you're getting killed you aren't being scary enough, that sounds stupid but in practice it works. Take my build, xl300, 2x lbx10's and 2x mls and just an arseload of ammo (142 shells); this might sound awful but the lbx10 has an effective range of something around 1600m, which is silly far. Sniping mechs are often easy to spook, and given 20 shots in a spread, hitting or blinding them is a guarantee even past 1000m allowing you to work as a suppression tool for your team to advance.

The only time I ever get scared in my Jager is when a pilot is smart enough not to run for cover when they outrange me, though that's only about 1/30 pilots. How do you fit ppc's and gauss on your jager and still have ammo though?