23 replies to this topic

[Duke Nedo]

Hi, I know I am sticking my neck out here, but what the heck. Is anyone else experiencing being punished badly by the MM when dropping solo after clans and other major patches? I had the same after phoenix was launched so I am guessing it has to do with the number of players playing and number of players playing in 4-main teams or something... this is mainly when playing at peak hours (I assume), euro late evenings.

Anyways, this is the last mech I mastered before clans, 100% solo drops.
VICTOR VTR-9K 60 34 26 1.31 49 38 1.29 16,371 58,338 06:06:45
VICTOR VTR-9B 57 28 29 0.97 50 37 1.35 16,140 57,975 06:12:31
VICTOR VTR-9S 69 41 28 1.46 74 36 2.06 22,329 78,714 07:30:39

Not a huge amount of games, nothing fancy, but a pretty normal win/loss ratio of 1.24 I'd guess if you try to help your team. NB: 100% solo drops. The 9s was meta, getting the best win/loss ratio of 1.46.

Now, I haven't played many games after clans due to vacation, but tonight I got some spare time and I get this when trying some drops in my new shiny.

WARHAWK WHK-A 3 1 2 0.50 2 2 1.00 1,513 2,952 00:16:48
WARHAWK WHK-B 5 0 5 0.00 0 5 0.00 999 928 00:20:21
TIMBER WOLF TBR-C 1 0 1 0.00 1 1 1.00 313 384 00:10:31
TIMBER WOLF TBR-S 6 0 6 0.00 6 6 1.00 2,182 2,848 00:45:05

That's 1 win and 15 losses (one not pasted above), of which 12 losses in a row! I know this can happen, once... or maaaybe twice, but not repeatedly and I experienced it quite a few times now. If the chance of winning these games had been 50%, the chance of getting the 12 straight losses that I had tonight is: 0.024%. Sure that will happen to someone occationally, but that is very unlikely to happen repeatedly to the same person. The single win I got, I got dropped with a load of smoke jaguars that did the job and we rolled the other team, the vast majority of the other games was extremely one-sided the other way around.

Now, my question is if anyone know what is causing this? Please spare me comments about how poor a player I am, even if I was AFK every game my team should have won more than 1 in 15 games versus evenly matched opponents. So, even though the experimental WHK-B build so far has sucked and I am not mastered, the TBR-S is meta and I don't believe my performance has anything to do with this. I also don't believe this is bad luck, it has happened too many times and often after big patches/launches before it trails off.

So, why are we random solo noobs (or whatever you'll call me) not distributed evenly between the teams? Are 90% of the players in 4-mans? Why does it hurt so much?

Edited by Duke Nedo, 28 June 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Torgun]

Come back and test what's different after the patch on Tuesday. Right now you can get all kinds of unbalanced matchmaking where some matches are almost pointless to play since they're set up to be really lopsided where one side can have just about all the good players while you end up with almost all the fresh recruits.

Oh yeah Inb4 L2P, you're the only constant factor so it must be all your fault etc.

Edited by Torgun, 28 June 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Losing many games isn't the matchmaker either. There are _lots_ of factors, despite what people like to think. Some are in your control, some are not.

I'll only address those that are in your control, but don't think I'm saying there are no other factors.

First, you're going from what's probably the best mech in the game, fully mastered, to a good mech (the Timberwolf) and a mediocre mech (wargawk - I love it personally, but its no Victor).

And then, you're doing that with a totally different playstyle, weapons that function completely differently. Your clan mechs are likely not mastered, and particularly with assaults that really matters.

Now, consider that probably 2/3rds of the other players in the match are doing the same tthing, piloting unfamiliar mechs with unfamiliar weapons and no pilot skills.

Losing lots? You're a factor, but just one of many.

Maybe you've just been unlucky, and dropped with lots of players who are actually pretty good but are in their first drops on new chassis, or the opposing team has more people running their tried and known IS mechs.

15 matches is an insignificantly small sample size, too.

Basically, this is a danger whenever new mechs are added. It happened a lot with the Phoenix mechs too, where vast numbers of players where levelling multiple mechs.

[Hellen Wheels]

Wintersdark, on 28 June 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

Losing many games isn't the matchmaker either....

That is true. Everything else you wrote is utter speculation.

The fabled and mythical "MM" is nothing more than a random game generator: it plops the people who are ready together into the same game, without regard to any other consideration than to start a game.

And my anecdotal evidence is just as plain as yours.

"MM," "Elo", etc. is just myth.

Completely random. Period.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 28 June 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

Do you drop with a team at all? If so, you probably have a high ELO.

Game first puts in the premade. No premade avail to put against it (yeah right) so it puts high ELO players against instead. You still get rolled.

This is also why when you drop as a premade the vast majority of the time you start on the same side of the map. Ditto with solo drop on the other side.

Just my theory anyhow.

[Hellen Wheels]

Dirkdaring, on 28 June 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Do you drop with a team at all? If so, you probably have a high ELO.

Don't listen to this drivel. There is no such thing as "ELO" in MW:o

There is not any consideration made by the game other than to fill a game and get it started.

It is completely random, other than keeping you and your pals together if you have formed a team of 4 or less.

Unless, of course, if you pay to use the premium lobby, or drop in the 12 man queue.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 28 June 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Elizander]

Not really. Getting a lot of good games lately and some close ones too.

[Adiuvo]

Hellen Wheels, on 28 June 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Don't listen to this drivel. There is no such thing as "ELO" in MW:o

There is not any consideration made by the game other than to fill a game and get it started.

It is completely random, other than keeping you and your pals together if you have formed a team of 4 or less.

Unless, of course, if you pay to use the premium lobby, or drop in the 12 man queue.

I have distinctly different games if I'm dropping on my main versus if I'm dropping on an alt with a friend new to the game...

Elo works. No, it's not perfect. You're going to get weird games on occasion. However, their are distinct differences in level of play in a high Elo match versus a low level one.

[Wintersdark]

Hellen Wheels, on 28 June 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

That is true. Everything else you wrote is utter speculation.

Of course it is. What can anyone do but speculate given "why did I lose 15 games in a row?".

Quote

The fabled and mythical "MM" is nothing more than a random game generator: it plops the people who are ready together into the same game, without regard to any other consideration than to start a game.

Keep on grinding that axe. I made no comment at all with regards to how well or not the matchmaker works. I didn't mention Elo at all.

Quote

And my anecdotal evidence is just as plain as yours.

"MM," "Elo", etc. is just myth.

Completely random. Period.

I can't help but think you're carrying on a conversation from elsewhere here. Your anecdotal evidence? What the heck are you even talking about? That's a really weird statement to join a conversation with.

[Bishop Steiner]

not really. my stats are much higher solo dropping than when team dropping

[Marcus Barton]

Back in the day (8v8 pre elo) i found i tend to get way more kills and some deaths when i went puggin (of course i admit i was abusing meta pretty hard back then Streak/SplatCats, CRavens, DDC/Stalker SRM spam, MOAR DAKKA). While when premading kill wise wasnt doing as good (focus firing means oftentimes others will get the killshot), dying waaaay less, and more importantly winning more % wise.

Sadly i've built up a gaudy pug smashing ELO and now suffer for it greatly if i drop in anything non meta.

Your ELO makes a huge difference. Dropping against scrubs/newbs mean even with a crap mech with a whatever build u can get a coupla kills and 500 damage easy, vs top tier players... yea, its not gonna be a good round even if youre on the stacked team since **** dies before u can bring your guns to bear.

[blackicmenace]

I pug 99.9% of the time and since Clans were release I too have experienced far more losses than wins. My experience has been more groups of losses thans groups of wins. Even contributing a lot statistically it does not seem to matter due to our solo nature. You are not the only one.

[Xenon Codex]

I have not noticed such behavior. I've been puggin in my Ember, Griffins, and Battlemasters with good results since the clans were introduced. I expect I'm in the medium to high ELO range as I don't see a lot of hide-n-seek poptarting, nor do I feel my teammates are clueless when spectating.

Definitely not any worse than normal, it really depends on my state of inebriation though.

[Duke Nedo]

Just trying to understand it to learn if I can adapt or not...

Sure, 15 games is a tiny sample, I put that statistics there because of convenience. Since I started fresh mechs, the PGI stats page atleast shows I am not making it up. This is just one loss-streak, I have had them multiple times before and interestingly they have had some kind of regularity to them, the loss streaks have come in clusters and intuitively focused after the bigger launches when more people are skilling mechs. Circumstantial for sure, but what else can you do... I have 3000+ solo drops (99% solo) so I do believe I have some kind of feel for when things turn abnormal.

There are a few mechanisms that could add up to this, not only my suckage-factor (which is after all only 1/12 of my team performance). For example, right now I would assume that most competent 4-manners are heavy on timberwolves, so if MM in any way or form tries to balance tonnage or class, dropping in a heavy or assault would increase my chances of being used to patch up these slots in less competent 4-manners that are using other mechs. Another factor would be if a majority of the players play in 4-manners, then dropping solo would be scewed towards having less premades on your own team. Etc etc. These are the main two constant factors I can see, the fact that I drop solo and the mechs I choose, and also what time of the day I am dropping. Anything that has to do with skill or elo really should cancel out because there would be another dude on the opposite team to match my skill or elo. Atleast that's how I am thinking...

Mainly I am just curious as to what can cause this behavior...

[Jimmy Page]

A super tiny player base makes it impossible for good matchmaking regardless of how bad and how many times PGI screws it up. There are no new maps and only three game modes because the game cannot support anything else. It's not uncommon for a new player to fight high end players. New player get smashed and quits shortly thereafter. PGI's poor decisions continue to make the player base small and sadly, whales throw money at them and keep them afloat.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Oh, 12 straight losses solo dropping? Oh dear god, I swear I got like 20 or 30 straight losses...I swear, its like my acct is allergic to getting on the side that will win when I solo pub. I mean, whats the chances that one gets the losing side 8/10 games? I mean, one side is going to win, why cant one be put on the side that wins as much as the side that loses....one thing that just baffles the crap out of me...

Before I joined CWDG my WL was like 20 some odd games in the hole. Its only now 34/35...my KD is still tanked at like 32/48 or something abysmal.

Ofc, I only have my Clan mechs and my Warhawk record is currently sitting at 26/21 WL and 22/29 KD...ofc, I also only roll with my clan mates. Solo pubbing in this game is more punishing and painful then anything that was or will be in any of the SAW movies....I do get heaps of assists in games, usually 3-5 and sometimes 7-12....I can usually put holes in just about every mech lol. I love shooting the guns...even if my horrid FPS in game prevents me from actually killing much.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 29 June 2014 - 03:36 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Keep in mind that some of the highest ranked players in the game, at least according to the Elo system, are people that have just completed their 25 cadet matches.

Once they're finished with those, they're right smack dab in the middle of the scale.

So, by that definition, some of the BEST players of this game don't know how to lock targets, shoot their own teammates in spawn and are completely unable to shoot without stopping and zooming in.

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Make a D-DC with a single LRM5 and a single MG and just find some place to stand and zoom in. It's not as if your teammates can complain about your tactics...they do the same thing.

[Sug]

Willard Phule, on 29 June 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Keep in mind that some of the highest ranked players in the game, at least according to the Elo system, are people that have just completed their 25 cadet matches.

Once they're finished with those, they're right smack dab in the middle of the scale.

So, by that definition, some of the BEST players of this game don't know how to lock targets, shoot their own teammates in spawn and are completely unable to shoot without stopping and zooming in.

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Make a D-DC with a single LRM5 and a single MG and just find some place to stand and zoom in. It's not as if your teammates can complain about your tactics...they do the same thing.

This is why we cant' have nice things.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Willard Phule, on 29 June 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Keep in mind that some of the highest ranked players in the game, at least according to the Elo system, are people that have just completed their 25 cadet matches.

Once they're finished with those, they're right smack dab in the middle of the scale.

So, by that definition, some of the BEST players of this game don't know how to lock targets, shoot their own teammates in spawn and are completely unable to shoot without stopping and zooming in.

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Make a D-DC with a single LRM5 and a single MG and just find some place to stand and zoom in. It's not as if your teammates can complain about your tactics...they do the same thing.

Holy crap, so I must be clear off the ELO charts. Cuz I do a little more then stand tehre and shoot my LRM5 and MG....I have actually dealt 600+ dmg in several battles. Gotten like 250 assists in 48 battles and blow components off left and right.

I suppose that explains why im always in a really ****** ELO ranked battle vs the really amazing players.

[Sug]

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 June 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

Holy crap, so I must be clear off the ELO charts. Cuz I do a little more then stand tehre and shoot my LRM5 and MG....I have actually dealt 600+ dmg in several battles. Gotten like 250 assists in 48 battles and blow components off left and right.

I suppose that explains why im always in a really ****** ELO ranked battle vs the really amazing players.

God I hope that's sarcasm of some kind.