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Ok. Contraction?


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#21 CoffiNail

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:16 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 12 July 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Yet, Clan-speak is full of contractions and slurring: "quiaff" ("query, affirmative response expected", used as a "tag question"), "quineg" ("query, negative response expected", also used as a "tag question"), "ristar" (a "rising star", "a person or thing that is growing quickly in popularity or importance in a particular field"), "batchall" ("battle challenge"), "dezgra" ("disgraced" -> "dezgraced"), "powless" (from "powerless"), "sibko" (from "SIBling COmpany" -> "Компания" is "company" in Kerensky's native Russian), and others.

It's just yet another area in which the Clans are hypocrites. :D

You are using "compound" words

#22 Strum Wealh

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostCoffiNail, on 16 July 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

You are using "compound" words

Compound words, by definition, necessarily include the whole of both words (e.g. "proofread", "everyone", "postman", etc), while "a contraction is a shortened version of the written and spoken forms of a word, syllable, or word group, created by omission of internal letters (actually, sounds)."

Not all contractions include an apostrophe; notable examples include "wanna" (want to) & "gonna" (going to).

Alternatively, you could try to claim them as portmanteaus, but "[the definition of portmanteau] overlaps with the grammatical term contraction, but a distinction can be made between a portmanteau and a contraction by noting that contractions are formed from words that would otherwise appear together in sequence, such as do and not, whereas a portmanteau word is formed by combining two or more existing words that all relate to a singular concept which the portmanteau describes."
Examples of portmanteaus include "smog" (coined by blending smoke and fog), "motel" (motor + hotel), "brunch" (breakfast + lunch), "spork" (spoon + fork) and so on.

Most of the Clan terms listed is a contraction:
  • "risingstar" or "rising-star" would be compounds, but "ristar" is a contraction
  • "battlechallenge" or "battle-challenge" would be compounds, but "batchall" is a contraction
  • "queryaff"/"query-aff" & "queryneg"/"query-neg" would be compounds, but "quiaff" & "quineg" are contractions
  • "sibling-company" would be a compound, but "sibko" is a contraction
And so on.

Going with "powless" instead of powerless & "dezgra" instead of "disgraced"/"disgraceful", on the other hand, just shows the Clans as being as linguistically lazy as they claim not to be by decrying the use of contractions (which, as noted above, they clearly use).

:)

#23 KuroNyra

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:07 PM

Hooo my heeeaaad.

I feel like my brain is going to explode...


But thank you for the informations.

Edited by KuroNyra, 17 July 2014 - 12:07 PM.


#24 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:14 PM

I never thought I would say this...

But Weird Al can help:



#25 Khan Warlock Kell

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:52 AM

LOL hmmmmm I wonder if lol Counts as a contraction or a word crime ?

#26 Gyrok

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:54 PM

View PostFireSlade, on 01 July 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Basically as others have stated you do not want to use shortened forms of a word (ex: ain't, aren't, can't, don't) because the Clans view those that use contractions as people with lazy minds (A.K.A. Stupid).


Honestly, it was truthfully their love of all things Star League that led to their hatred of contractions. They feel it is a blightful stain on the language of the Star League to use Star League English in such a manner as to cheapen the beauty of the language. Trothkin are big believers in preserving the language for all the beauty it has. It was the language of the Great Father and the Father....how could it possibly be anything less than a marvelous language?

#27 Gyrok

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 16 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Compound words, by definition, necessarily include the whole of both words (e.g. "proofread", "everyone", "postman", etc), while "a contraction is a shortened version of the written and spoken forms of a word, syllable, or word group, created by omission of internal letters (actually, sounds)."

Not all contractions include an apostrophe; notable examples include "wanna" (want to) & "gonna" (going to).

Alternatively, you could try to claim them as portmanteaus, but "[the definition of portmanteau] overlaps with the grammatical term contraction, but a distinction can be made between a portmanteau and a contraction by noting that contractions are formed from words that would otherwise appear together in sequence, such as do and not, whereas a portmanteau word is formed by combining two or more existing words that all relate to a singular concept which the portmanteau describes."
Examples of portmanteaus include "smog" (coined by blending smoke and fog), "motel" (motor + hotel), "brunch" (breakfast + lunch), "spork" (spoon + fork) and so on.

Most of the Clan terms listed is a contraction:
  • "risingstar" or "rising-star" would be compounds, but "ristar" is a contraction
  • "battlechallenge" or "battle-challenge" would be compounds, but "batchall" is a contraction
  • "queryaff"/"query-aff" & "queryneg"/"query-neg" would be compounds, but "quiaff" & "quineg" are contractions
  • "sibling-company" would be a compound, but "sibko" is a contraction
And so on.


Going with "powless" instead of powerless & "dezgra" instead of "disgraced"/"disgraceful", on the other hand, just shows the Clans as being as linguistically lazy as they claim not to be by decrying the use of contractions (which, as noted above, they clearly use).

:D


Those are less contractions and more jargon. Outside of the warrior caste, many of the trothkin would not recognize many of the terms.

#28 Strum Wealh

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:44 AM

View PostGyrok, on 04 August 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Those are less contractions and more jargon. Outside of the warrior caste, many of the trothkin would not recognize many of the terms.

Jargon is merely "the language, especially the vocabulary, peculiar to a particular trade, profession, or group" or "special words or expressions that are used by a particular profession or group and are difficult for others to understand".

Whether a word is part of one or more groups' jargon has no bearing whatsoever on whether the word in question is or is not a contraction.
"Avgas" (high-grade aircraft-compatible fuel - "aviation-grade gasoline"), for example, is an example of jargon (within the aviation industry & pilot community) that is also a contraction.

All of the examples of Clan language I've pointed out, while part of the Clans' jargon, are also still contractions.

#29 Gyrok

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:28 AM

While you may be right, all newly formed words that become jargon are generally accepted to have roots in being shortened into a contraction initially...then after prolonged accepted use by that community. It becomes a word that stands on its own in that community. For example...widget....is a term derived from gadget and a popular phrase in the 1920's a whatsit. It is now widely accepted jargon...and a word that stands by itself. Though it started as a contraction.

#30 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:23 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 12 July 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Yet, Clan-speak is full of contractions and slurring: "quiaff" ("query, affirmative response expected", used as a "tag question"), "quineg" ("query, negative response expected", also used as a "tag question"), "ristar" (a "rising star", "a person or thing that is growing quickly in popularity or importance in a particular field"), "batchall" ("battle challenge"), "dezgra" ("disgraced" -> "dezgraced"), "powless" (from "powerless"), "sibko" (from "SIBling COmpany" -> "Компания" is "company" in Kerensky's native Russian), and others.

It's just yet another area in which the Clans are hypocrites. :)


"In linguistic analysis, contractions should not be confused with abbreviations or acronyms (including initialisms), with which they share some semantic and phonetic functions, though all three are connoted by the term "abbreviation" in loose parlance. Contraction is also distinguished from clipping, where beginnings and endings are omitted." (copied from wikipedia)

The latter instance, clipping, is seen in Clan-speak quineg, quiaff, stravag which are actually combinations of words which have become single words. One could argue that those words are abbreviations. These are not contractions in the strictest sense and are in fact acceptable words to use among the Warrior caste to make something rhetorical (to make a point) or to ask a proper question. When the writers identified contractions, they meant the words like won't, didn't, can't etc - not what are essentially slang terms. Study up on youth slang and populare culture vocabulary. A contraction that has evolved to become its own word with no punctuation in it is no longer a contraction and the "definition" which you ascribe to specific Clan words is not applicable. This does not make the Clans hypocritical, just speakers of a slightly evolved Alpha language.

Just sayin' ;-)

look here

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 20 August 2014 - 03:27 PM.


#31 Strum Wealh

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:52 PM

View PostGremlich Johns, on 20 August 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:


"In linguistic analysis, contractions should not be confused with abbreviations or acronyms (including initialisms), with which they share some semantic and phonetic functions, though all three are connoted by the term "abbreviation" in loose parlance. Contraction is also distinguished from clipping, where beginnings and endings are omitted." (copied from wikipedia)

The latter instance, clipping, is seen in Clan-speak quineg, quiaff, stravag which are actually combinations of words which have become single words. One could argue that those words are abbreviations. These are not contractions in the strictest sense and are in fact acceptable words to use among the Warrior caste to make something rhetorical (to make a point) or to ask a proper question. When the writers identified contractions, they meant the words like won't, didn't, can't etc - not what are essentially slang terms. Study up on youth slang and populare culture vocabulary. A contraction that has evolved to become its own word with no punctuation in it is no longer a contraction and the "definition" which you ascribe to specific Clan words is not applicable. This does not make the Clans hypocritical, just speakers of a slightly evolved Alpha language.

Just sayin' ;-)

look here

Yet, clipping & blending are simply mechanisms where the end result is some often form of contraction (of which portmanteaus, clipped compounds, and other similar structures are subsets and/or related concepts).
At its heart, "a contraction is a shortened version of the written and spoken forms of a word, syllable, or word group, created by omission of internal letters (actually, sounds)" - a definition that includes or describes each of the previous mechanisms & concepts.

Moreover, the combination of the stated reason behind the Clans' aversion of contractions - which would carry over to other, similar structures - and the fact that they use them nonetheless is part of what makes them hypocrites with regard to the use & decrying of contractions (and similar linguistic structures).

This reverence for the language of their forefathers gave birth to a subtle but very striking taboo in Clan society: the use of contractions in speech is forbidden. Warriors blanch and others become visibly upset at when one uses contractions in speech, even though the words used are not offensive. The Loremaster of Clan Wolf, describes to a Comstar man the rationale behind this odd taboo. He explained, "We in the Clans have learned almost from birth to revere the old Star League ways; everything we do should in some way glorify the Clans and the memory of the Star League. This specifically includes our speech, because we believe as strongly in the freedom of speech and expression as did the Star League. To slight the beauty of the language with contractions is to treat it as your (Comstar's Anastasius Focht) people in the Inner Sphere treated the memory of the Star League. You have cut out its heart and reduced it to a cultural contraction, devoid of beauty and the best of its meaning. Only someone wishing to deliberately scorn the language and shock the listener would use contractions."

This does not mean that the Clans have allowed the language to stagnate. Over the years, the Kerenskys and the Clans have added terms to express unique Clan concepts. These words come from a wide variety of languages, especially Russian. Some are military terms adapted for common use. Others are formed by splicing together two words to form a third. These added words sometimes create the effect of listening to a completely foreign tongue.

Clan warriors also have a "battle language,". Like warriors in the Inner Sphere, Clan warriors use a wide range of acronyms, hyphenations, splices, and buzz words to convey the most meaning in the least number of words. Clan warriors' battle language is so quick and complex that even when Inner Sphere forces are able to intercept Clan communications, they seldom understand what they hear.



The above is from page 17 of the Clan Wolf sourcebook.

The Loremaster of Clan Wolf goes on at length to Focht about how the Clans believe that "to slight the beauty of the [Star League Standard English] with contractions is to treat it as... the Inner Sphere treated the memory of the Star League", how the use of contractions is to "cut out its heart and [reduce] it to a cultural contraction, devoid of beauty and the best of its meaning", and how "only someone wishing to deliberately scorn the language and shock the listener would use contractions".

And then, in the very next paragraph, it is stated that "over the years, the Kerenskys and the Clans have added terms to express unique Clan concepts", including those "formed by splicing together two words to form a third".
The concept of a "rising star" is far from a "unique Clan concept", and yet they have the term "ristar"; the concept of being disgraced is far from a "unique Clan concept", and yet they have the term "dezgra"; the concept of being powerless is far from a "unique Clan concept", and yet they have the term "powless". And then there are "quiaff", "quineg", "sibko", and others.
It's also specifically noted that the use of such structures in the Clans' common speech is distinct from their use of military jargon while conducting an operation (the mentioned "battle language").

Additionally, several of the novels discuss, in detail and/or at length, how "proper" Clan warriors "bristle" or "recoil" at the use of contractions by Spheroids & lower-caste Clansmen and "lesser" (e.g. freeborn or solahma) Clan warriors - and then still go on about how such-and-such is a ristar, and how so-and-so is a dezgra bloodfoul surat (or some such), and using the tag questions "quiaff" (instead of "affirmative", or even just "yes") and "quineg" (instead of "negative", or even just "no").

The Clans' whole sthick with language is that they espouse the belief that it should be used in a form that most would recognize & describe as "prim and proper" and that the use of contractions is a means of debasing the revered language of the equally-revered Star League - and then they litter it with what are still technically contractions (e.g. ristar, sibko) & what really are just lazy shortenings and slurrings (e.g. dezgra, powless), anyway. In other words, they espouse a set of beliefs, and then act in a way contrary to those espoused beliefs - which is the very definition of being hypocrites.

#32 3Xtr3m3

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:56 PM

The Surats..

Sewer + Rat = Surat

#33 Strum Wealh

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:13 AM

View Post3Xtr3m3, on 20 August 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

The Surats..

Sewer + Rat = Surat

While I wouldn't be surprised if that were the original intent :ph34r:, surats themselves (pictured below, upper-right) are more apelike than anything else (despite their bat-like wings), and they & their relationships with humans are described in a manner more reminiscent of capuchin monkeys.

Posted Image
(source)

Also, "surat" is a Hindi word, and apparently translates to English as either "color"/"colour" or "face" & is the name of what is at the time of this writing the eighth largest city in India.

#34 Kadix

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:07 PM

Odd that most "Dark Age" novels that feature the clans will have at least one clanner using contractions, and the authors specifically call out that the clanner was using contractions to annoy other clanners.

Malvina Bloodfoul comes to mind.





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