67 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

Fierostetz, on 01 July 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

It is what it always was - people flock to the forums and complain to absolve themselves of responsibility for a loss. Historically, and at present (in real life) fighting at range is preferred to fighting in close quarters. There's a reason for that - more reward, less risk. Thats why rifle > pistol, rocket > grenade. Its the same thing in MWO. They can't keep whackin' away at game mechanics to force short-range to be more viable - the short range fighter needs to figure out how to close the range gap, and do it.

Uh.... You always had to figure out how to close the range gap... even before double heatsinks ruined the game.

The issue with MWO for 14+ months now is that the long ranged sniper builds are just as good (if not better) within 200 meters as the brawler builds. (ac40s being an odd exception)

I played a few matches. and did VERY poorly, but I was watching more than playing

so I spent a lot of time watching the flow of the match, to gauge how the game has changed.

Frankly this game hasnt changed at all....

Actually i DID notice that my framerate is considerably worse and less consitent.

so at least they messed the optimization up even more.

However the meta and style of play looks identical, and the clan mechs look shiny, but in all actuality seem to have little effect on the flow of battle.

I just saw a river city match that was identical to about half the matches Ive played on that map.

The only difference is that I was sniping at poptart summoners and timberwolves on the edge of my draw distance rather than cataphracts

Clans don't seem OP, but it's almost as bad that they seem like shiny repeats of everything ive seen before from PGI

[Little Details]

I think you'll find with the new Group Queue starting tomorrow, your instance of seeing PPC/Gauss/AC5 on everything will change as long as you go in the solo/4man queue. Fewer groups mixed in pugs means fewer pros which means fewer meta mechs as you can take a non-tryhard build and contribute. Of course, then you'll btch because there are so many tards in the solo queue that lack any basic understanding of how to properly hit what they aim at, not to mention, a rudimentary understanding of tactics, that it will be equally frustrating.

Edited by LT Satisfactory, 01 July 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

LordBraxton, on 01 July 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Clans don't seem OP, but it's almost as bad that they seem like shiny repeats of everything ive seen before from PGI

They're a much needed infusion of variety

[Bishop Steiner]

LordBraxton, on 01 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Im updating MWO for the first time in ages, 19 updates downloading....

I always said id give it another try when they buffed SRMs. I heard they are like... 2.15 damage now.

I guess that counts??

What is scaring me is that on the shiny 'new' general discussion forum here, everyone is talking about the meta like i HAVENT BEEN GONE FOR A YEAR

I gave the game a YEAR break, because the pinpoint damage PPC\Gauss PPC\AC5 meta got so old.

I have 34+ mechs, and the only ones I used the last few months of playing were JJ equipped PPC or AC snipers.

Now people are mentioning 2cerppc JJ timerwolves and 2gauss2ppc Dire Wolves....

Once again....

IT'S BEEN A YEAR!??!?!?!

Is it still pinpoint-damage-sniper, hull-down-behind-ridge, peak-n-poke-warrior
-online?

This update is slow so Im debating if I should uninstall or not

19 updates? Brother, instead of doing that, and the inevitable issues that will cause, uninstall, then reinstall fresh. THEN worry about the Meta.

[Lightfoot]

Expect alot more pop-tarting. PGI just added Radar Deprivation module which means your LRMs lose their lock before they can be aimed, launched, and arrive on a poptarting mech. Even with BAP and TAG and Artemis locking... which is very fast. LRMs were the one counter to pop-tarting that actually worked and were actually in Battletech. Unlike Radar Dep., Ghost Heat, and the Gauss Rifle de-sync which are not in Battletech. Not at all.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 July 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[Quicksilverc5]

While the meta is the same, the clans to offer the opportunity to build something to suit your playstyle. I fear the meta much less with the capabilities I can bring to bear to over come them. I understand that people will often take the easy way out and I enjoy my play more when I am creative and still manage to kill a meta-tart.

As nuclear would say

"Die"

"Die an rage quit!"

[Koniving]

LordBraxton, on 01 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Im updating MWO for the first time in ages, 19 updates downloading....

I always said id give it another try when they buffed SRMs. I heard they are like... 2.15 damage now.

I guess that counts??

What is scaring me is that on the shiny 'new' general discussion forum here, everyone is talking about the meta like i HAVENT BEEN GONE FOR A YEAR

I gave the game a YEAR break, because the pinpoint damage PPC\Gauss PPC\AC5 meta got so old.

I have 34+ mechs, and the only ones I used the last few months of playing were JJ equipped PPC or AC snipers.

Now people are mentioning 2cerppc JJ timerwolves and 2gauss2ppc Dire Wolves....

Once again....

IT'S BEEN A YEAR!??!?!?!

Is it still pinpoint-damage-sniper, hull-down-behind-ridge, peak-n-poke-warrior
-online?

This update is slow so Im debating if I should uninstall or not

PPCs + Gauss is lore proper and easy to deal with. Target the Gauss Rifle... Watch the ****** die.

It's usually PPCs + AC/5.. that I see, and THAT is a problem... Mainly because their ammo won't blow and they are HARD as hell to kill.

[Deathlike]

It's a sad state of affairs in that responding the the Madcat meta is essentially a Victor with the same/similar build.

No really, just try building it... it's not hard to build at all.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

In my experience, the big change was not the +0.15 damage per missile, it was the combination of the removal of explosion throttling (CryEngine was artificially delaying some explosions, causing some missiles to explode on impact and other to wait until the missile had passed through the target, or worse, the target had moved away) and the Buckton Fix (CryEngine was deciding arbitrarily that, despite registering a hit with missiles, the damage simply should not be applied).

Once both of those changes went through, SRMs finally returned to true viability. I've been wrecking face since the explosion throttling fix, and now that the Buckton Fix and slight damage buff are live, it's been brawler heaven for me.

[Gas Guzzler]

Well, one of the top Timber Wolf builds is with dual cERPPCs and 20-24 SRMs, which stomps the "meta" Twolf up close.

Also, the gap between sniping and brawling is lessened when you have a well organized team. Keep that in mind.

[Bhael Fire]

F#@k the "meta" ...I'd just be happy with a Matchmaker that works and a SOLO ONLY queue.

[Sephlock]

LordBraxton, on 01 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Im updating MWO for the first time in ages, 19 updates downloading....

I always said id give it another try when they buffed SRMs. I heard they are like... 2.15 damage now.

I guess that counts??

What is scaring me is that on the shiny 'new' general discussion forum here, everyone is talking about the meta like i HAVENT BEEN GONE FOR A YEAR

I gave the game a YEAR break, because the pinpoint damage PPC\Gauss PPC\AC5 meta got so old.

I have 34+ mechs, and the only ones I used the last few months of playing were JJ equipped PPC or AC snipers.

Now people are mentioning 2cerppc JJ timerwolves and 2gauss2ppc Dire Wolves....

Once again....

IT'S BEEN A YEAR!??!?!?!

Is it still pinpoint-damage-sniper, hull-down-behind-ridge, peak-n-poke-warrior
-online?

This update is slow so Im debating if I should uninstall or not

You forgot jump jets. Those were apparently addressed but the fix was toned down so chances are only lights will be suffering from the changes (or they will suffer the most).

[Naduk]

well its going to be a very interesting patch day then (thursday this week due to public holiday in Canada)

jump jets are getting scalar fall damage (based on weight class and speed)
they also are getting linear heat (per jumpjet) but i think that is in a follow up patch as they want to measure how the fall damage changes effect it first
match maker is 100% new
now features functional 3x4 and full size groups, 2-4 still go with pugs (1 grp per side now as apposed to multi grps we have now) then groups of 5-10 and then 12
other balance change ect
alot of concerns in this thread should hopefuly be fixed this weekend

im looking forward to seeing all the QQ threads about how JJ are now useless and highlanders along with them blah blah blah you ruined my only way to enjoy the game QQQQQQQQQQ

cant wait

[Sephlock]

Naduk, on 01 July 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

well its going to be a very interesting patch day then (thursday this week due to public holiday in Canada)

jump jets are getting scalar fall damage (based on weight class and speed)
they also are getting linear heat (per jumpjet) but i think that is in a follow up patch as they want to measure how the fall damage changes effect it first
match maker is 100% new
now features functional 3x4 and full size groups, 2-4 still go with pugs (1 grp per side now as apposed to multi grps we have now) then groups of 5-10 and then 12
other balance change ect
alot of concerns in this thread should hopefuly be fixed this weekend

im looking forward to seeing all the QQ threads about how JJ are now useless and highlanders along with them blah blah blah you ruined my only way to enjoy the game QQQQQQQQQQ

cant wait

I get the feeling that

1: The changes may not be enough

&

2: In the event that they are, they are going to be slow (AT BEST) to revert all the non jump-related nerfs to Victors and Highlanders.

[Simbacca]

As I said before, the easiest solution is: AC/Gauss+PPC cannot fire within 2 seconds of each other.

[Gas Guzzler]

Simbacca, on 01 July 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

As I said before, the easiest solution is: AC/Gauss+PPC cannot fire within 2 seconds of each other.

Just because it is easy doesn't mean it isn't a terrible solution.

[wanderer]

627, on 01 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Joke is, people talk about the steering wheel underhive as elo hell... but if you get to high... elo heaven is not what you'll find.

Mount Tryhard is the domain of angry Greek meta-gods tossing their lightning and thundercannons upon the unworthy.

[wanderer]

Simbacca, on 01 July 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

As I said before, the easiest solution is: AC/Gauss+PPC cannot fire within 2 seconds of each other.

The easiest solution would be restricting true FLD + pinpoint to the Gauss and leave it at that. Splash PPCs + burst AC's makes it rather tough to deliver efficient alphas short of monsters like a Dire Wolf.

[Gyrok]

Lightfoot, on 01 July 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Expect alot more pop-tarting. PGI just added Radar Deprivation module which means your LRMs lose their lock before they can be aimed, launched, and arrive on a poptarting mech are finally fixed for appropriate levels of indirect fire. Even with BAP and TAG and Artemis locking... which is very fast, if they remain, Narc'ed, Tagged, or in LOS of another mech, they still land. LRMs were the one counter to pop-tarting that actually worked and were actually in Battletech. Unlike Radar Dep., Ghost Heat, and the Gauss Rifle de-sync which are not in Battletech. Not at all.

FTFY.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 01 July 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

While it would indeed be nice if short range weapons with spread damage mechanics beat long range weapons with superior damage application at 150M, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

SRM6s and PPCs still have the same cooldown.

PGI's response will likely be something along the lines of:

Man you guys and cooldown.

6 Tons of IS SRM 6s = 24 Damage for 8 heat
7 Tons of IS PPC = 10 Damage for 10 heat


The issue is in the delivery, not the cooldown.


For the clan the damage to weight ratio is even higher for SRMs.

6 Tons of cSRM 6s = 48 damage for 16 heat
6 Tons of cERPPC = 15 damage for 15 heat


But again, the problem with SRMs is in the delivery.


The best ideas I've seen are:

> Increase SRM flight speed
> Change to cone spread, so that the closer you are the tighter the spread

I think they need to have their heat scale penalties (ghost heat) loosened as well.


SRMs should be one of the premier close range spike damage tools, not DPS weapons - they still need tweaks so those damage numbers are real damage and not just inflated sandblasting - but the cooldown portion isn't actually the issue.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 July 2014 - 03:50 PM.