49 replies to this topic

[Puresin]

My one question is this, so atleast give a decent reply before you troll the hell outta me.

I play the TT version of battletech. Why is it that a mech can jump and fire multiple heavy weapons (2x AC10's or higher, dual gauss dual ppc's etc etc) (ignore ****** grammar for the moment) nbut yet when a bunch of missiles hit a mech it shakes the **** out of them so that you have to work to aim?


I mean in the TT version they'd roll for falling over which is reasonable.

I don't disagree with missiles shaking the **** out of you. I do disagree with poptarting without consequence.


ok remeber first make a decent statement, then you can troll the **** outta me.

**** i forgot I can't swear

[Puresin]

oh and just for giggles and b4 someone is a smarta** anyone capable of jumping in the air and firing a shotgun from both hands and not suffering some pretty severe consequences? if so post a dam video here.

[Bishop Steiner]

Because cake is delicious.

(Hey you simply said first make a decent statement.....you never stipulated the statement had to be in regards to your OP. And Cake IS delicious.)



(also, this is about as deep a process as I assume Paul takes to the concept of weapon balancing, in most cases, but especially in regard to poptarting, which has been handled poorly, with all attempts at curtailing, handled even worse, since inception. Ess. Didn't totally leave you hanging.)

[1453 R]

BECAUSE THIS HAS NEVER BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE, NOPE NOPE.

Welcome to half the threads posted in GD before the Clan release, Puresin.

[Bishop Steiner]

Puresin, on 01 July 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

oh and just for giggles and b4 someone is a smarta** anyone capable of jumping in the air and firing a shotgun from both hands and not suffering some pretty severe consequences? if so post a dam video here.

as soon as I find an 80 ton person to fire that gun, I will.

But soldiers in combat actually do lay down suppressive fire while running, and yes even jumping and hopping as they make there way to cover. Have yet to see a rifle cause the guy to do a backflip....but the accuracy did suck.

[crossflip]

Damn, what I'd give to see Victors clothesline themselves midair due to recoil. That would be hilarious.

[Aresye]

Welcome to SOON™ Inc!

Please head to one of the available offices and your complaints will be handled soon™

<---------------- Box for poptarting complaints. __________ Box for Clan mech complaints. ----------------->

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 July 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

as soon as I find an 80 ton person to fire that gun, I will.

But soldiers in combat actually do lay down suppressive fire while running, and yes even jumping and hopping as they make there way to cover. Have yet to see a rifle cause the guy to do a backflip....but the accuracy did suck.

There we go, Bishop. the ultimate solution to Toaster Pastry Hell.

Firing any kind of weapon while in the air will rocket you backwards like you were dual-wielding Noisy Crickets. It'll be like having a second second of legs equipped with MASC and little angel-winged sandals, except specifically for sprinting backwards in midair. Poptarting will stop being an offensive attack and become a strategically employed escape tactic. There will be an achievement for slamming into someone else ass-first from the recoil and killing them. We'll call it the 'My Humps' achievement.

It'll be GLORIOUS.

[Bhael Fire]

Winter might not be coming any time soon....but...SCALAR FALLING DAMAGE IS...

[Slepnir]

uh, dude TT rules-take 20 points of damage in a turn make a pilot check to stay standing from being knocked around, with advanced rules it gets harder by 1 for every additional 20.

So yes shake is in TT, just represented differently.

[BlackBeltJones]

Puresin, on 01 July 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

oh and just for giggles and b4 someone is a smarta** anyone capable of jumping in the air and firing a shotgun from both hands and not suffering some pretty severe consequences? if so post a dam video here.

Thank you for giving me a weekend project. If it works out I will post a video.
As it is I am with you, jumping and shooting, while possible, has consequences.

[Puresin]

I wasn't saying shaking from missiles wasn't in TT. I was just saying the TT version had a better grasp of real physics.....


also to point out I was referring to "heavy weapons"

let me explain. I am 140 lbs and i CAN fire a 32 winchester one handed and hit WITHIN the target.

but a 32 winchester to me is like an AC5 to a mech. yeah no change but an AC10/20, ppc, gauss rifle to me would be more like a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge.


I CANNOT fire 2x 20 gauges (one in each hand) or 2x 12 gauge without some serious consequences.

maybe someone who is 400lbs could but even then i'm sure the recoil would be....detrimental to say the least.


And @ Bishop Steiner......... yes cake is delicious.....but not pund cake. It goes right to my thighs.



and @ 1453 R I am looking forward to that achievement.....in fact i am going to petition to make sure it comes to life

who's got the "My Humps" achievement yet?


oh yeah BlackBeltJones............ I just don't know what to say other than........maybe wear a helmet and I will definitely be looking for that video

Edited by Puresin, 01 July 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[Koniving]

Slepnir, on 01 July 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

uh, dude TT rules-take 20 points of damage in a turn make a pilot check to stay standing from being knocked around, with advanced rules it gets harder by 1 for every additional 20.

So yes shake is in TT, just represented differently.

I believe he even mentioned that.
What he is referring to is how LRMs will shake the living **** out of you so that you can't aim or see in MWO...
...But jumping and shooting, which has such a high to hit penalty that it's almost impossible to do with any accuracy in tabletop, is so easy a monkey can do it in MWO.

Edited by Koniving, 01 July 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Slepnir]

Koniving, on 01 July 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

I believe he even mentioned that.
What he is referring to is how LRMs will shake the living **** out of you so that you can't aim or see in MWO...
...But jumping and shooting, which has such a high to hit penalty that it's almost impossible to do with any accuracy in tabletop, is so easy a monkey can do it in MWO.

Perhaps because in TT you dont actually shoot untill after you land aside from flare in the novels JJ are there to get over terrain.

[Koniving]

Slepnir, on 01 July 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Perhaps because in TT you dont actually shoot untill after you land aside from flare in the novels JJ are there to get over terrain.

If that's true, then you travel faster by jumpjet than you do by land.
And thus it should be reflected in MWO by literally launching you.

After all, in tabletop it is not possible to fire all your weapons at the same time they must be spread out over 10 seconds.

[Slepnir]

Koniving, on 01 July 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

If that's true, then you travel faster by jumpjet than you do by land.
And thus it should be reflected in MWO by literally launching you.

After all, in tabletop it is not possible to fire all your weapons at the same time they must be spread out over 10 seconds.

The 10 seconds is supposed.to represent target selection and careful aiming. Solaris rules allow for faster fire with penalties, which is the route PGI went.

On TT you use jump to get over hills or get in behind something that normal move/turn restrictions don't allow, or to reduce the need for critical turn checks. as jumping is almost always shorter than run distance, without movement lost on turns.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 July 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

as soon as I find an 80 ton person to fire that gun, I will.

But soldiers in combat actually do lay down suppressive fire while running, and yes even jumping and hopping as they make there way to cover. Have yet to see a rifle cause the guy to do a backflip....but the accuracy did suck.

Well, have him do it while firing an M82....or maybe a Rocket launcher...which is pretty much what mechs would be using...large caliber, high power weapons...Rifles would be the equivalent to a mech machinegun...low drag, prolly easy to fire on the move, but inaccurate.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 01 July 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

Well, have him do it while firing an M82....or maybe a Rocket launcher...which is pretty much what mechs would be using...large caliber, high power weapons...Rifles would be the equivalent to a mech machinegun...low drag, prolly easy to fire on the move, but inaccurate.

very few heavy weapons actually have a comparable thrust to weight ratio. Try firing an M82 (unbraked) from the shoulder, period. A similar recoil impulse would stand a tank up slightly. They don't. And they would do it even less if people get their wish and get burst ACs. But I can easily fire a 12 guage while jumping (and actually it's easier without having it at my shoulder, as the arm acts as a series of shock absorbers. Single handing a 12 gauge wont break your wrist contrary to urban legend).

The issue is not the recoil impulse knocking a mech over midjump (unless one is using a Heavy Gauss). It's that quite simply they would be very difficult to fire accurately while jumping, as even if the targeting computer could give a firing solution fast enough, the human reflexes combine with the mechanical moving of the weapon for convergence, would not happen fast enough. Multi-tion weaponry does not actuate instantly.

[Kassatsu]

Here's an idea... Bring back convergence and make it take longer (or not work properly at all) while in the air!

Oh wait.

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 July 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Multi-tion weaponry does not actuate instantly.

Oh how I wish Paul would read and understand this.

As for jumping and firing; the +3 penalty to hit (implemented as reticule shake in MWO) should be applied all the way from take-off to landing. Jumping should generate heat (1 per hex jumped, 3 minimum in TT, implementation is under way in MWO as I understand it).

We don't really need fall damage (as it is implemented; fall damage when falling over is another thing entirely and should be implemented); it's a mechanic that will punish non-poptarts more than poptarts, and 'mechs were actually designed to be able to run without taking damage...