Thank you for giving me a weekend project. If it works out I will post a video.
As it is I am with you, jumping and shooting, while possible, has consequences.
Even if it doesn't work I still want to see it. "Research" for realism. Oh, and use a 10 gauge whist tonguing a hot 110v socket.
The 10 seconds is supposed.to represent target selection and careful aiming. Solaris rules allow for faster fire with penalties, which is the route PGI went.
On TT you use jump to get over hills or get in behind something that normal move/turn restrictions don't allow, or to reduce the need for critical turn checks. as jumping is almost always shorter than run distance, without movement lost on turns.
Everything is accomplished within 10 seconds. And nothing is fired at the same time, otherwise all shots would hit or miss. You may notice you hit spots at random, with decreased chances to hit if both players are moving (you don't magically move, stop, then spend 10 seconds aiming).
Even in Solaris, you spend x seconds doing everything you do.
An example..
Lets take a Warhawk. Moves 6 hexes (120 meters).
Fires 4 ER PPCs.
Generates 62 heat, sinks 40 at 4 heat per second. 22 heat at the conclusion.
Real time breakdown.
Spoiler
Warhawk is moving at 64.8 kph, taking a 45 degree turn from the origin point that he was already at 64.8 kph from.
0 seconds to 1 second. ER PPC charge begins and ends in 0.5 seconds. 5 heat generated from charging an ER PPC. 0.2 heat generated (at the end of this second) from movement. 5.2 heat total as the first second concludes.
1 second, 4 heat sunk, 1 heat left. ER PPC fires. Remaining 10 (of 15 total) heat generated. + 0.2 heat running movement = 11.4 heat. (38% heat of threshold!)
2 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 7.4 heat left. Adjusting aim and twist. Calculating firing solution. 0.2 heat generated from running movement. 7.6 heat total. First ER PPC misses.
3 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 3.6 heat left. Charging second ER PPC + 5 heat. Fires in the same second, + 10 heat. + 0.2 heat generated from running. 18.8 heat. (62.67% of threshold. Warning: Level one shutdown risk of maintained. Pilot is sweating.)
4 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 14.8 heat left. Second ER PPC hits target HBK-4G Right Torso Rear (enemy armor destroyed, 1 internal structure remaining). + 0.2 heat for movement. 15 heat total (exactly 50% threshold).
5 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 11 heat left. Cooling. Continues to twist to keep the target in sights. +0.2 heat for running. 11.2 heat total.
6 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 7.2 heat left (24% of threshold exactly) Adjusting aim. Charging third ER PPC in later half of second. + 5 heat. + 0.2 heat. 12.4 heat total (41.33% of threshold).
7 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 8.4 heat left. Firing third ER PPC. + 10 heat + 0.2 heat for movement. 18.6 heat total. (62% of threshold exactly).
8 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 14.6 heat left. + 0.2 heat. = 14.8 heat total (49.33% of threshold). (Third ER PPC hits HBK left leg, 5 points of armor remaining.)
9 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 10.8 heat left. Charges Fourth ER PPC + 5 heat. Fires in the same second + 10 heat. +0.2 movement heat. (10.8 + 5 + 10 + 0.2 = 26 heat).
10 seconds, 4 heat sunk, 22 heat left. (The 0.2 heat for movement was played out from 0 to 9 seconds rather than 1 to 10 seconds). Fourth ER PPC hits HBK 4G right leg, 5 points of armor remaining.)
In the end, it accomplished all 4 shots across 10 seconds, never hit 30 heat built up at any given time, never hit 100% heat. If the pilot had maintained over 15 heat (50%) for 3 seconds back to back, he'd have to try to hit override to prevent a shutdown. It'd also present the risk of an ammo explosion with 2 or so seconds back to back of being over 19 heat or 63.33% heat.
The total stats from tabletop (megamek).
Spoiler
Weapons fire for Masakari (Warhawk) Prime (Koniving)
ER PPC at Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot); needs 4, rolls 3 : misses
ER PPC at Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot); needs 4, rolls 9 : hits (using Rear table) RTR
Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot) takes 15 damage to RTR.
Armor destroyed, 1 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RT. Roll is 7; no effect.
ER PPC at Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot); needs 4, rolls 9 : hits (using Rear table) LL
Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot) takes 15 damage to LL.
5 Armor remaining.
ER PPC at Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot); needs 4, rolls 9 : hits (using Rear table) RL
Hunchback HBK-4G (TestBot) takes 15 damage to RL.
5 Armor remaining.
------------------------------------------
Masakari (Warhawk) Prime (Koniving) gains 62 heat, sinks 40 heat and is now at 22 heat.
Masakari (Warhawk) Prime (Koniving) needs a 8+ to avoid shutdown, rolls 8 : avoids successfully!
Masakari (Warhawk) Prime (Koniving) needs a 4+ to avoid ammo explosion, rolls 8 : avoids successfully!
In that 10 seconds, 6 hexes (180 meters) were travelled at 64.8 kph.
If the Warhawk had enough jumpjets to do 6 hexes of movement, in order to have time to fire at the end of the jump it'd have to travel at 129.6 kph, and even then it would only have 5 seconds to accomplish those shots; physically impossible to do in that time period without hitting 100% heat due to the rush of shots. Thus, the weapons must be fired during the airborne time as well.
10 seconds of jumpjet followed by instant firing isn't careful aim. It's 10 seconds to do everything.
And since an alpha strike is impossible, and in fact unheard of until the Battletech 32 player simpits around 1993, it became an official term in time for Mechwarrior 2 as a rarely used last ditch effort to fire everything; which typically resulted in a shut down, there is no way you'd fire all the weapons at the 10th second, as that'd be 60 heat with nothing dissipated. It's impossible.
Thus, you did in fact have to fire during the jump, though logically because of the inaccuracy you'd complete the jump (at which the next cycle of 10 seconds begins) then move, making your shots then when accuracy is much higher.
oooooooooo how i love this fall damage now. poptart, shoot legs watch legs break on second or third pop.........wow i got to do this twice. then suddenly all the poptarts were gone......anyone found a poptart recently?
as soon as I find an 80 ton person to fire that gun, I will.
But soldiers in combat actually do lay down suppressive fire while running, and yes even jumping and hopping as they make there way to cover. Have yet to see a rifle cause the guy to do a backflip....but the accuracy did suck.
And yet, During the war there are recorded cases of German fighters chasing down Reco Aircraft stalling their aircraft due to firing a couple 20mm cannon, these are aircraft weighing tons and being propelled by 2000hp motors.
** The AC classification is kilograms of ammo fired per second, as per Era Report 3052, page 98.
Seriously? There's nothing in there about kinetic energy? They do know a round that flies faster hits harder right? No wonder we don't have things like armor piercing ammo and such at this point in the timeline, none of the writers, and by extention nobody in the bt universe has the faintest clue how ballistics work.
Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:57 AM
N0MAD, on 04 July 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:
And yet, During the war there are recorded cases of German fighters chasing down Reco Aircraft stalling their aircraft due to firing a couple 20mm cannon, these are aircraft weighing tons and being propelled by 2000hp motors.
Cool, now figure their sectional density out. The density of an object has far more to do with that than their weight. And aircraft has far less density than a tank or walking tank. That same mass/density soaks recoil.
Also, is was a Ju 88 P-5, mounting an 88mm tank cannon that you refer to, and it lost minimal velocity, but nearly stalling is as far as reliable records go, an urban myth. Take off weight was 15 tons, powered by 2 1400hp motors. (Standard model used a 75mm cannon, and had no such issues at all)
one of the more fascinating aircraft of WWII and one of my favorites due to how unusual it was.
Satan n stuff, on 04 July 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:
Seriously? There's nothing in there about kinetic energy? They do know a round that flies faster hits harder right? No wonder we don't have things like armor piercing ammo and such at this point in the timeline, none of the writers, and by extention nobody in the bt universe has the faintest clue how ballistics work.
Well, in fairness, it is all generic stuff, and so whoever has tried to "clarify" things, like that report, later, tend to actually make it worse.
Hardest aspect in a game like Btech, is you really cannot provide too much detail, or construction and even combat turns become impossible.
Always did laugh though at the concept of ac5 ammo being the same everywhere for game mechanics when the ac5s themselves ranged from 75mm or so to 120mm. Pretty sure 120mm bore ammo won't really fit in a 75 mm barrel.......
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 July 2014 - 05:06 AM.
Well, in fairness, it is all generic stuff, and so whoever has tried to "clarify" things, like that report, later, tend to actually make it worse.
Hardest aspect in a game like Btech, is you really cannot provide too much detail, or construction and even combat turns become impossible.
Always did laugh though at the concept of ac5 ammo being the same everywhere for game mechanics when the ac5s themselves ranged from 75mm or so to 120mm. Pretty sure 120mm bore ammo won't really fit in a 75 mm barrel.......
Nah, it'll be fine, you just pick it up with your mech's hands and squeeze until it fits. That's why a lot of the clan omnis have those weird claw shaped hand actuators, they're actually specially designed to press salvaged ammo into the right shape and size.
2
BlackBeltJones, on 01 July 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:
Oh, and use a 10 gauge whist tonguing a hot 110v socket. 
