162 replies to this topic

[Dymlos2003]

With this being added next patch there is going to be a huge wave of threads saying that it is broken. It's not. For once people have to watch where they pilot especially light pilots. Legs will be hurting. Do You expect an out cry?

You guys better start practicing feathering your falls. It's going to be an interesting patch day.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 01 July 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Well the summorer is going to be more worthless. It already take leg damage worse than any mech i have owned. Seeing its a "heavy" its going to be high on the leg dmg scale.

[Deathlike]

So... you want the average of < 15% of Lights to shrink to < 10%.

I see.

[Dymlos2003]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

So... you want the average of &lt; 15% of Lights to shrink to &lt; 10%.

I see.

If that means increasing the skill requirement for piloting. Dunno what your comment has to do with anything though.

[Monkey Lover]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

So... you want the average of < 15% of Lights to shrink to < 10%.

I see.

If they go with anywhere close to the numbers they had posted. Lights will do about the same damage as they have now. The larger the mech the more dmg.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 July 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[Piney II]

No more jumping off of hills without JJs. Maybe will see an increase in mechs gimping around on damaged legs for a while.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

If that means increasing the skill requirement for piloting. Dunno what your comment has to do with anything though.

It does not. Small bumps = damage, back to the Open Beta days where Lights had massive accumulated leg damage from small rocks and bumps. It's actually worse in this instance and not exactly overstated. I had exposed leg internals by the time I got to the C4-D4 platform on Crimson Strait... that's incredible amounts of damage to lose all external armor BEFORE EVEN FIGHTING.

If anything, the shock absorbance module is MANDATORY for Lights AND NO OTHER CLASS. In fact, poptarting works just swell to minimal effect.

In essence, Lights get screwed, and poptarts are unaffected.

Monkey Lover, on 01 July 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

If they go with anywhere close to the numbers they had posted. Lights will do about the same damage as they have now. The larger the mech the more dmg.

That's not the case though... as those numbers were examples and are not guaranteed to be the case.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 July 2014 - 05:33 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

It does not. Small bumps = damage, back to the Open Beta days where Lights had massive accumulated leg damage from small rocks and bumps. It's actually worse in this instance and not exactly overstated. I had exposed leg internals by the time I got to the C4-D4 platform on Crimson Strait... that's incredible amounts of damage to lose all external armor BEFORE EVEN FIGHTING.

If anything, the shock absorbance module is MANDATORY for Lights AND NO OTHER CLASS. In fact, poptarting works just swell to minimal effect.

In essence, Lights get screwed, and poptarts are unaffected.




That's not the case though... as those numbers were examples and are not guaranteed to be the case.

Small bumps did not equal leg damage. Don't go spewing bs. You need to learn to pilot then. I was fine in a light without jjs in the pts and that's with not final numbers. You need too l2p then.

[Draykin]

This is a necessary change. Get used to it. Increasing fall damage severely affects anyone with jump jets. Why is it necessary? Well, first off, let me just say that PGI stated that the fall damage is based on vertical velocity and not jump height. This means that if you jump until your jets run dry, you're taking a LOT more damage than if you're jumping to 50% and then using the rest to cushion your fall. Also, damage is different based on class, so what are you people even talking about when you say Lights will suffer the most? No, clearly the Heavies (Timber Wolves) and Assaults (Victors) will suffer the most, because they will probably take a lot more damage on average. Besides, Heavies and Assaults need to actually be shot in the legs for once.

Do we know the exact numbers that PGI will be using? No. If we don't know them, how can we assume how much one 'Mech class will suffer? We cannot accurately state "Oh, Lights will all die off" without knowing those damage numbers. It's the same thing with the Command Console and Targeting Computers. People are assuming without the actual, true data and numbers required to state facts.

[Alexandrix]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

If anything, the shock absorbance module is MANDATORY for Lights AND NO OTHER CLASS. In fact, poptarting works just swell to minimal effect.

In essence, Lights get screwed, and poptarts are unaffected.

That's the most hilarious/sad thing about the fall damage change.It will probably end up pooping on everyone BUT the intended targets.That's how PGI's round about,bassackwards "fixes" work.

They don't really want to enact a real change directly to the source of the problem.Better to just beat around the bush until there are so many band aid and patch work fixes that the game is clogged with so many convoluted and undocumented mechanics,no one knows which way is up.

any half decent poptarts jump only as high as needed to get the shot,and will have plenty of JJ fuel left to soften the landing.It will have zero practical affect on them.

*for proof of this claim,simply look to prior "fixes"*
-gauss charge nerf - affect on poptarts - minimal(I have a macro that negates the charge and fires the weapons at the same time anyways - anyone that knows that they are doing will) or they swapped to ac5's

-AC5 nerf - affect on poptarts - nill - still going strong

-ac range nerf - affect on poptarts - minimal - still perfectly viable or switched back to gauss

Edited by Alexandrix, 01 July 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

That's not the case though... as those numbers were examples and are not guaranteed to be the case.

Have you seen the new numbers? Where are they posted.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Small bumps did not equal leg damage. Don't go spewing bs. You need to learn to pilot then. I was fine in a light without jjs in the pts and that's with not final numbers. You need too l2p then.

I believe some people have recorded vids about the leg damage. I'd have to dig them out. There were on small drops (IIRC Canyon from just one small platform going down). How that happens does not make sense to anyone.

I run Lights FAR MORE OFTEN than anything else. It is hard to IGNORE such changes. If you choose to refuse my opinion on the matter, so be it. It doesn't sound like you run Lights in general.

If you think this is a L2P issue, let's see how the MM fares when this all settles down. I have no doubt in my mind that if the code hasn't been tweaked or changed since then, my experience will not be inaccurate to the reality.

Monkey Lover, on 01 July 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Have you seen the new numbers? Where are they posted.

They were never stated for the PTS AFAIK, and even PGI said in that particular thread about the rates that they were "placeholder values" (not guaranteed to be the case).

http://mwomercs.com/...ystem-overhaul/

Quote

NOTE: All numbers above are for example purposes only. Actual production numbers will be shared in the patch notes. We hope to have these implemented shortly after the Clan Collection release.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 July 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

Alexandrix, on 01 July 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

That's the most hilarious/sad thing about the fall damage change.It will probably end up pooping on everyone BUT the intended targets.That's how PGI's round about,bassackwards &quot;fixes&quot; work.

They don't really want to enact a real change directly to the source of the problem.Better to just beat around the bush until there are so many band aid and patch work fixes that the game is clogged with so many convoluted and undocumented mechanics,no one knows which way is up.

any half decent poptarts jump only as high as needed to get the shot,and will have plenty of JJ fuel left to soften the landing.It will have zero practical affect on them.

This isn't a fix for pop tarts this is adding damn fall damage cause it's not in the game yet. Oy vey....

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

I believe some people have recorded vids about the leg damage. I'd have to dig them out. There were on small drops (IIRC Canyon from just one small platform going down). How that happens does not make sense to anyone.

I run Lights FAR MORE OFTEN than anything else. It is hard to IGNORE such changes. If you choose to refuse my opinion on the matter, so be it. It doesn't sound like you run Lights in general.

If you think this is a L2P issue, let's see how the MM fares when this all settles down. I have no doubt in my mind that if the code hasn't been tweaked or changed since then, my experience will not be inaccurate to the reality.



They were never stated for the PTS AFAIK, and even PGI said in that particular thread about the rates that they were &quot;placeholder values&quot; (not guaranteed to be the case).

You have ran lights but did you run lights in the CB when Fall damage was in? (Incomplete of course) I did as a main. It's a learning issue cause you are used to having no consequences for horrible piloting. Btw losing .1 percent a fall is nothing.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 01 July 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

You have ran lights but did you run lights in the CB when Fall damage was in? (Incomplete of course) I did as a main. It's a learning issue cause you are used to having no consequences for horrible piloting. Btw losing .1 percent a fall is nothing.

I have run Lights in CB, and the PTS implementation is WORSE than what was in CB. In CB, it was pretty bad.

It isn't .1%, it was far more than that.

[Bigbacon]

mechs like the locust already launch themselves into space one even the smallest movement and hill...

if it gets worse, they will be unusable and please, the whole "learn to pilot" thing is BS...

it is nearly unavoidable in lights as it is to not take leg damage no matter how 'elite' your skillz are.....it isn't derpy piloting.

[poopenshire]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Small bumps did not equal leg damage. Don't go spewing bs. You need to learn to pilot then. I was fine in a light without jjs in the pts and that's with not final numbers. You need too l2p then.

Eh wrongo Mr. Morono

I posted almost a dozen picks of mechs stepping off the lowest, LOWEST, edges of several maps (the best ones were losing over 12 to 15 damage for taking a step off of the lowest rung on Canyon Network). we are talking barely knee high on most mechs and taking more damage than an AC10 to the legs at point blank range..... None of those tests were with JJ and none were nothing higher than the height of a medium mech. All were simply stepping off an edge not running and not JJing off.

You need to learn to test properly and read.

Scalar damage was SUPPOSED to be based on mech weight, distance of fall, and speed of fall, Per PGI directly. Look it up and read more. What was evident from the PTS was this was not the case fully. Yes this was very visible, but unfortunately other damage was occurring at accelerated rates. What I saw in the PTS was horrid and not what scalar damage is meant to be. Great idea, it is, but poor poor implementation.

[Dymlos2003]

Bigbacon, on 01 July 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

mechs like the locust already launch themselves into space one even the smallest movement and hill...

if it gets worse, they will be unusable and please, the whole &quot;learn to pilot&quot; thing is BS...

it is nearly unavoidable in lights as it is to not take leg damage no matter how 'elite' your skillz are.....it isn't derpy piloting.

It's completely avoidable. Avoid cliffs or anything that will make you air born. I can tell that the whine will be huge with this patch.

[ShinVector]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

With this being added next patch there is going to be a huge wave of threads saying that it is broken. It's not. For once people have to watch where they pilot especially light pilots. Legs will be hurting. Do You expect an out cry?

You guys better start practicing feathering your falls. It's going to be an interesting patch day.

Yeah... Let start 'feathering' falls on the Commando, Locust, Ravens, Adders... Guess what these guys in common ?

Some of the big problem I see that scrappy movement bugs due to terrain still exist eg. stuck on a slope for seconds (or forever) and suddenly dropping for FALL DAMAGE. I have no idea much damage these issues is going cause lights.

Quote

Scalar falling damage
In essence, this feature means no longer can you let yourself fall however high your JJ take you and receive negligible fall damage to your legs. As the name implies this is scalar based on weight class and tonnage, so light 'mechs won’t notice much of a difference but the Heavies and of course Assault' mechs will notice a significant change. Your typical jump-sniper Heavy or assault is going to take leg damage that is going to add up fairly quickly unless they change their ways. Pilot’s will need to learn to cushion their landings with their JJ’s and that means saving some fuel for a landing. They can either achieve this by not jumping as high in the first place or perhaps spending more tons on JJ when building their 'mech. All of this should add up and have the desired impact on MWO, which is to lower the overall significant advantage JJ-capable 'mechs have in the game, at least not without more of a trade-off.

Well feedback from PTS has already kinda the bad indicating that lights take terrible leg damage..
Now jumping off things generally do <1% damage. PTS feedback it is 3-4% ! Ouch !
Russ says lights won't notice this ??

Anyway hoping the fix the numbers before it hits live... Else there will be QQ... There will be ALOT of QQ...

In the past in CB days.. Lights used to take excessive leg damage by just simply running around in the map... PGI fix that issue and now they want to bring things back to square one. Oh well..

[Dymlos2003]

poopenshire, on 01 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Stuff

Ah you. I remember your rambling. The numbers were off but the way you got the damage was fine. You need to learn to drive your mech. It's that easy.

[Dymlos2003]

ShinVector, on 01 July 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yeah... Let start 'feathering' falls on the Commando, Locust, Ravens, Adders... Guess what these guys in common ?

Some of the big problem I see that scrappy movement bugs due to terrain still exist eg. stuck on a slope for seconds (or forever) and suddenly dropping for FALL DAMAGE. I have no idea much damage these issues is going cause lights.



Well feedback from PTS has already kinda the bad indicating that lights take terrible leg damage..
Now jumping off things generally do &lt;1% damage. PTS feedback it is 3-4% ! Ouch !
Russ says lights won't notice this ??

Anyway hoping the fix the numbers before it hits live... Else there will be QQ... There will be ALOT of QQ...

In the past in CB days.. Lights used to take excessive leg damage by just simply running around in the map... PGI fix that issue and now they want to bring things back to square one. Oh well..

I drove the adder with no problem on the pts. While I did get 4% when I fell far. That was the only time I received that damage for falling. While the damage numbers were off I was still fine with it. Should be easily dealt with the new numbers.