27 replies to this topic

[Bigbacon]

why do the clans get longer beam ranges out of the targeting computers where as IS with command console does not?

Clans already have extended range weapons.

is the balance that IS can use the modules where as the clans can't for weapon range increases? Tons over Module slot?

I don't get it.

clan gets weapon boosts for tonnage but IS doesn't.

Edited by Bigbacon, 02 July 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Wieland]

Doesnt seem to be worth the 3 tons for me.

[Mark of Caine]

As a scout, I can see the value of the Command Console now. I'll have to play around with that 3 tons, but should be interesting. For any other mech, the only value is the Target Info. Saves you a module slot for other things.

[IronEricP]

Well, at 3 tons, the zoom and radar range buffs are as good as the Mk5 TC and the info gathering is as good as the Mk3 TC, and it only takes up 1 critical slot. Less than an IS BAP. All TC take up slots equal to their tonnage. So honestly, it shouldn't give the exact same benefits, as it was never meant to improve WEAPON performance.

Caine2112, on 02 July 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

As a scout, I can see the value of the Command Console now. I'll have to play around with that 3 tons, but should be interesting. For any other mech, the only value is the Target Info. Saves you a module slot for other things.

Just keep in mind, the CC can only be mounted on IS heavy and assault mechs (rule from TT). It represents an extra pilot with data gathering gear, and smaller mechs don't have the space in their heads (apparently?).

[Mark of Caine]

IIRC when selecting the head slot, the command console is an item you can buy/equip. But will check later tonight when I get home.

If you can't mount this in a light, then it will be next to worthless, unless you have 3 tons to spare and don't know what to do.

[Bigbacon]

Eric Portenelli, on 02 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Well, at 3 tons, the zoom and radar range buffs are as good as the Mk5 TC and the info gathering is as good as the Mk3 TC, and it only takes up 1 critical slot. Less than an IS BAP. All TC take up slots equal to their tonnage. So honestly, it shouldn't give the exact same benefits, as it was never meant to improve WEAPON performance.


Just keep in mind, the CC can only be mounted on IS heavy and assault mechs (rule from TT). It represents an extra pilot with data gathering gear, and smaller mechs don't have the space in their heads (apparently?).

but this isn't TT........

[xeromynd]

Command Console + BAP + Info Gathering Module = ITS MY TARGET INFO AND I WANT IT NOW

[MountainCopper]

Yes, that was one major complaint why Targeting Computers improve beam range and projectile speed as if by magic. Not a fan of it...

It would have been way better to determine the weight and benefit levels of the Targeting Computer by the weapons installed in a build.
From sarna :

Quote

Clan Targeting Computers weigh one ton and occupy one critical slot for every five tons of equipment they control (rounded up).

Quote

The Targeting Computer can be used to help aim all direct fire weapons, including most energy and ballistic weapons.

Could have been implemented in MWO. Yes, I know that some other meaningful benefits would have to be found in that case.
But faster projectiles and increased beam ranges...

Edited by GoldenFleece, 02 July 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Bigbacon]

GoldenFleece, on 02 July 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yes, that was one major complaint why Targeting Computers improve beam range and projectile speed as if by magic. Not a fan of it...

[/size]
It isn't.

it is was something like "Beam power focuserer" I could understand some sci-fi jargon that is focuses the beam more to get longer range but it being called a 'targeting computer' just doesn't make sense...

I could understand more it is raised weapons like LRMs and SSRMs since they kinda need targeting....

either way, the whole increase in weapon stats to Clan mechs doesn't make any sense over IS since Clan weapons already have a range advantage anyway. Not that the range increases are huge but if you can pack #6 or #7 you are getting pretty good range increases on main stay weapons like MLs looking at like 30+m

Edited by Bigbacon, 02 July 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Rashkae]

Why is the IS TC only 1 slot??? I'd love to pop one out of an Atlas' head and put it into a clan mech. Seems the IS miniaturization techs are way ahead of the clans.

[Bigbacon]

Rashkae, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Why is the IS TC only 1 slot??? I'd love to pop one out of an Atlas' head and put it into a clan mech. Seems the IS miniaturization techs are way ahead of the clans.

going with "balance"

[Name140704]

Caine2112, on 02 July 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

As a scout, I can see the value of the Command Console now. I'll have to play around with that 3 tons, but should be interesting. For any other mech, the only value is the Target Info. Saves you a module slot for other things.

Unless your 'scout' is a heavy or an a assault, you won't be allowed to use a command console according to the notes. And if your Atlas is a 'scout', you're doing it wrong.


*** edited for st00pid typos

Edited by Psycho Farmer, 02 July 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Rashkae]

Psycho Farmer, on 02 July 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

And if your Atlas is a 'scout', you're doing it wrong.


888 edited for stoopid typos

Unless it's a Steiner scout lance.

Edited by Rashkae, 02 July 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Johnny Z]

GoldenFleece, on 02 July 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yes, that was one major complaint why Targeting Computers improve beam range and projectile speed as if by magic. Not a fan of it...

It would have been way better to determine the weight and benefit levels of the Targeting Computer by the weapons installed in a build.
From sarna :





[size=4]

Could have been implemented in MWO. Yes, I know that some other meaningful benefits would have to be found in that case.
But faster projectiles and increased beam ranges...

I agree cant stand the projectile speed increase at all. I know its sci fi but thats just silly and makes no theoretical sense. (I hope thats a word, if it isnt, it should be )

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 July 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[Mark of Caine]

Bigbacon, on 02 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

it is was something like "Beam power focuserer" I could understand some sci-fi jargon that is focuses the beam more to get longer range but it being called a 'targeting computer' just doesn't make sense...

I could understand more it is raised weapons like LRMs and SSRMs since they kinda need targeting....

either way, the whole increase in weapon stats to Clan mechs doesn't make any sense over IS since Clan weapons already have a range advantage anyway. Not that the range increases are huge but if you can pack #6 or #7 you are getting pretty good range increases on main stay weapons like MLs looking at like 30+m

Do remember that those TCs are 6 and 7 tons respectively. Clan mechs already have free tonnage restrictions as is. It now comes down to a player's choice to sacrifice X tons of weapons/ammo/heatsinks for a TC or a CC for IS mechs.

I think the fact that TCs giving a boost to weapon range compensates for that tonnage restriction that pilots have to deal with.

[C E Dwyer]

Bigbacon, on 02 July 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

but this isn't TT........

but the games based on it

Johnny Z, on 02 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I agree cant stand the projectile speed increase at all. I know its sci fi but thats just silly and makes no theoretical sense. (I hope thats a word, if it isnt, it should be )

yup the projectile speed is the one thing that made me go WTF I can understand range as the do dads inside compensate and make you more accurate at ranges, but speed da f...

[IronEricP]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 02 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Much as we have all have a strong respect for Tabletop, the simple truth is that converting rules designed for a tabletop turn-based strategy game simply doesn't translate in a balanced manner when applied to a real-time shooter/simulator game. Where-ever canonical values work, we intend to keep them in place, but we will have to continue to reserve our right to deviate and adapt from the numbers of BT where-ever it would further benefit the balance and experience for players here. We hope you understand.

This. Pretty much what I meant to say was that it was a rule in TT, and I noticed in the patch notes that they had kept it. As opposed to defaulting to TT, I was just pointing out that the original restriction came from it.

[Shae Starfyre]

Someone please do the math; after trying them out, the Clan TC; I found very little appreciable difference in the game play.

It is not so much that they are not interesting, but like the modules that increase weapon statistics, the amounts are small in comparison to the amount of tonnage and crit space; the BAP module alone is sufficient for most operations and has the benefit to at least counter ECM (limit).

The ability to get a readout swiftly may be the one saving grace; but it only works with LOS it seems as there is latency when aquiring information on non-los targets (or at least it seemed that way to me).

The only thing I did not try yet is the Balistic speed for Gauss; this may have an interesting impact to deliver that shell quicker an more percisely if it works for Gauss.

Another thing that is unclear to me is whether all the sensor range items work together; it didn't seem so to me.

I did find it humorous to tickle people at 1900m with a CERLL for potentially 1 pnt of damage if that.

I would have perferred a shared sensor suite with the team or something to that effect; something that would allow a role for command oriented mechs and scouts.

[Thourq]

Aphoticus, on 02 July 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Someone please do the math; after trying them out, the Clan TC; I found very little appreciable difference in the game play.

It is not so much that they are not interesting, but like the modules that increase weapon statistics, the amounts are small in comparison to the amount of tonnage and crit space; the BAP module alone is sufficient for most operations and has the benefit to at least counter ECM (limit).

The ability to get a readout swiftly may be the one saving grace; but it only works with LOS it seems as there is latency when aquiring information on non-los targets (or at least it seemed that way to me).

The only thing I did not try yet is the Balistic speed for Gauss; this may have an interesting impact to deliver that shell quicker an more percisely if it works for Gauss.

Another thing that is unclear to me is whether all the sensor range items work together; it didn't seem so to me.

I did find it humorous to tickle people at 1900m with a CERLL for potentially 1 pnt of damage if that.

I would have perferred a shared sensor suite with the team or something to that effect; something that would allow a role for command oriented mechs and scouts.

As for all the electronic equipment working together.. I believe they should, I don't know if they do. There are a number of mechs on the TT made with stuff like a TC. Active Probe, ECM, etc all working together. So again, I believe they should.

As for your last sentence, I agree, although more for the Command Console than the Targeting Computer. it would make total sense for the Command Console and I don't know why they didn't add that kind of feature in. They could make it work by giving the whole team a small, non-stacking, bonus from anyone with a Command Console. It's amplified if said 'Mech with a CC is either the Platoon Leader or Lance Leader. In the case of a lance leader, only the lance gets the larger bonus.

[eaglemaster42]

The zoom buff in the command console + advanced zoom + my sniper mech