34 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

i was thinking about this when responding to a post about wanting 16v16 and

i think it would honestly be pretty sweet (assuming teams are slightly even) it would have conquest actually be about capturing the nodes instead of using ending how assault/skirmish ends.....

it would encourage teams to actually break off into lances so smaller groups would be fighting around the map instead of the large groups with 1 or 2 lone wolfs who get picked off.


doubt it would happen but id love to try it at least even if only on Test

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 01 July 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Dropship respawn or COD respawn?

[1453 R]

Fair warning, Ph30nix: the word 'respawn' is a very dirty word on these here forums. It gets people in trouble. Bad trouble.

I will leave the outraged ranting to others, but rest assured - I agree with the spirit, if not the delivery, of the flame-basting to come. To Gehenna with spawn-rushing Call of Duty screwballery in MWO, man...

Edited by 1453 R, 01 July 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[FupDup]

A "respawn" type mechanic would require at least five main things to work, given MWO's environment:

1. Very big maps, probably bigger than even Alpine.

2. More spread out objectives, so that it isn't just a straight steamroll across the map everytime.

3. Due to MWO's higher unit durability than infantry FPS games, the "respawn" timer would have to be way longer than traditional games. I'm talking probably a minute at the least, probably more. It could even be based on your mech's tonnage, giving a nice incentive to run lights and mediums (to redeploy faster).

4. Some kind of "respawn resource" so it isn't just unlimited lives. Something like tickets could work, and your mech's tonnage could be used as its "cost." This means that mediums and lights could be deployed more often without totally wrecking their team's "tickets" pool or whatever.

5. For coolness, a mech "respawning" wouldn't just magically teleport into life like most games. You would either get dropped out of a dropship from miles above the battlefield, or walk out of a mech production factory near the battlefield. Something like the MWO teaser trailer:

Edited by FupDup, 01 July 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Zaggeron]

Not a big fan of respawns as they are typically implemented -- Once people start respawning you lose the notion of "the front" --the points at which you typically engage the enemy team. There is not much that is more annoying to me than playing well and getting killed by someone who spawned behind your lines.

Respawns, IMHO, lead to a different sort of play style after the first few minutes of play -- one where you more or less randomly traverse the map looking for the enemy because there is no front, just various spawn locations.

That said, MWO might be able to pull it off if they did things like FupDup suggested -- many of which serve to maintain the "front". I'd say at least you have to respawn with a lance meaning the game waits until there are 4 suitable units waiting to respawn before placing them in the game.

Edited by Zaggeron, 01 July 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Hellcat420]

Ph30nix, on 01 July 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

i was thinking about this when responding to a post about wanting 16v16 and

i think it would honestly be pretty sweet (assuming teams are slightly even) it would have conquest actually be about capturing the nodes instead of using ending how assault/skirmish ends.....

it would encourage teams to actually break off into lances so smaller groups would be fighting around the map instead of the large groups with 1 or 2 lone wolfs who get picked off.


doubt it would happen but id love to try it at least even if only on Test

this idea would make conquest even less about capping points. people would just spawnrush constantly because that is how you get ridiculous damage/kills and make the most money.

[Draykin]

While I am not completely against the notion of respawning 'Mechs, the current maps don't have the right form or size to properly handle such a situation. Also, there still needs to be a penalty for death, otherwise people don't care about whether or not they die.

Perhaps when your 'Mech is destroyed, repairs "in the field" can only be made to some degree? However, if it were Dropship type spawning, then I'd suggest a ticket or resource system.

[Vyrago]

how about this: The first TWO mechs (on any team) killed are re-spawned in 60 seconds.

[RangerGee412]

I would like to see it tried.

Restrictions could be your ammo is not refilled

Your whole lance must die so the lance is respawned as a whole

Some kind of ticket system .

If your home cap point is in enemy Hands no respawns allowed

[Jeb]

Vyrago, on 01 July 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

how about this: The first TWO mechs (on any team) killed are re-spawned in 60 seconds.

that doesn't make any sense at all... you would see people charge into battle trying to get as much dmg as possible, then die and play normal...


Battlefield type respawn would work... you can respawn at the closest owned resource node. Change the game mode, so that you only get points for capping, defending, and a bonus based on how many resource points you have at the end of the game... I find conquest already goes very fast IF people are capping, so I don't think any type of ticket system would be needed...

The game then becomes about capping/defending nodes, with killing the enemy as a means to capping or defending the node.

The respawn lets people become less scared to die, so they are more willing to try to defend or cap. you could put a limit on respawns per player, but that would make people scared to die again...

(for the role players, have the mech drop from a drop ship like BF games where you drop from a plane)

Even without respawn, I think these rules would be better then the current version... (might need some tweaking though if no respawns..)

edit:
Oh and I just thought of a deterrent to dieing... each time you die, it adds time to your respawn timer... (with it slowly dropping back to the default the longer your alive)

Edited by Jeb, 01 July 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Ph30nix]

cdlord, on 01 July 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Dropship respawn or COD respawn?

if they can make it work well i dont care. at this point id just like to TRY IT to see if it would even be remotely fun and go from there tweaking it and improving it

Hellcat420, on 01 July 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

this idea would make conquest even less about capping points. people would just spawnrush constantly because that is how you get ridiculous damage/kills and make the most money.

As for income they would have to drasticly change the income rates to prevent people just farming maybe a 100% flat reward win/loss maybe 60k for loss 120k for win before bonus?

frankly i think Fupdup has the right idea. might even be more awesome if they implement sort of a hybrid of the dropship idea
you have your mechs in a que and you start with one mech once it is destroyed you can either wait X time for it to be repaired/rearmed (varies dependent on damage/tonnage/equipment costs) or jump back in faster inside one of your other "prepped" mechs.
could allow for on the fly changes to tactics so it could potentially improve back and forth fighting.
that or maybe remove the prepped mechs idea totally and just keep you the one mech that the repair time is based on the damage taken, the overall tonnage and the equipment used. (guy with a 300xl will take longer then a guy in a 300 std)
would give a slight edge to using certain pieces of equipment.

heck even if they just make it a mildly controlable option for private matchs id like to try it

[Ph30nix]

Jeb, on 01 July 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

The game then becomes about capping/defending nodes, with killing the enemy as a means to capping or defending the node.

The respawn lets people become less scared to die, so they are more willing to try to defend or cap. you could put a limit on respawns per player, but that would make people scared to die again...

OH OH OH what if your # of respawns was based off your "score" everyone starts of with X resources and this goes down when destroyed but you can increase it with certain actions such as

Defending/capping a node
saving an ally
tag/narc
completing objectives (for whatever new game modes we might hopefully pray to god get)
basically the things that currently give XP excluding kills/assists /damage
so again the more expensive your mech the less you can respawn unless you work REALLY hard to earn more resources or take a cheaper mech. But mind you since you only get cash when you win you would need to balance cost vs vaibility

Whoa and something like that would pave the way for allowing easier tweaking on Clan vs IS matches.
match starts 12 vs 12 but (as in lore) for every 1 clan reinforcement the IS could field 2 maybe even 3

so end of a match (assuming everything plays evenly and its close and it comes down to only 1 survivor on each team once point cap is reached and no one else has any resources left to respawn)
the clan would have lost say 30 mechs
while the IS would have lost 40 mechs?
adjusted as needed

Edited by Ph30nix, 01 July 2014 - 02:57 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

1453 R, on 01 July 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Fair warning, Ph30nix: the word 'respawn' is a very dirty word on these here forums. It gets people in trouble. Bad trouble.

See? That's something I'll never understand. Back in the previous titles, although the ultra-high-count-forum-mouthpieces in places like DSC all agreeing with each other like a pile of clucking hens that no re-spawn was the only way to play Mechwarrior, reality blatantly contradicted their beliefs. Respawn servers were overwhelmingly more popular with the average player than no respawn servers.

Same would hold true today given the choice. If we had a re-spawn game mode, it would be the overwhelming choice of the average player, just like in the past titles.

It also kills me that over a decade later, COD itself or its community is the perennial target to hurl insults at by fans of the franchise. Mostly because these guys hurling insults have both in game and on the forums proven themselves to be inferior to them.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind respawn for pug matches, but I'd be pretty opposed to it for any kind of organized play. Which is pretty much how it was in the previous MW titles.

Respawn was for having fun and just playing the game. No respawn was for unit matches in the leagues.

[Ph30nix]

TB Freelancer, on 02 July 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Respawn was for having fun and just playing the game. No respawn was for unit matches in the leagues.

well if we had some good game modes designed around it respawns could even be apart of league play.

[CDLord HHGD]

Respawns are good for PvE. Respawns are bad for the type of PvP we have. They will foster really bad habits and playstyles.

PGI was considering at one time a "DropShip Mode" respawn. You'd ready up a lance of four mechs (they were mum on any kind of restrictions on those four). When you die, you'd climb into your next mech, up to three times, and rejoin the fray.

I wanna say they abandoned this or at least tabled it, but info is scarce.

[1453 R]

TB Freelancer, on 02 July 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

See? That's something I'll never understand. Back in the previous titles, although the ultra-high-count-forum-mouthpieces in places like DSC all agreeing with each other like a pile of clucking hens that no re-spawn was the only way to play Mechwarrior, reality blatantly contradicted their beliefs. Respawn servers were overwhelmingly more popular with the average player than no respawn servers.

Same would hold true today given the choice. If we had a re-spawn game mode, it would be the overwhelming choice of the average player, just like in the past titles.

It also kills me that over a decade later, COD itself or its community is the perennial target to hurl insults at by fans of the franchise. Mostly because these guys hurling insults have both in game and on the forums proven themselves to be inferior to them.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind respawn for pug matches, but I'd be pretty opposed to it for any kind of organized play. Which is pretty much how it was in the previous MW titles.

Respawn was for having fun and just playing the game. No respawn was for unit matches in the leagues.

In regards to the Call of Duty thing:

CoD players aren't necessarily 'inferior' to longstanding MechWarrior players. Matter of fact, most folks who're being honest with themselves will have played Call of Duty themselves. Most of the time, the 'Call of Duty player' reference is in regards to the typically accepted stereotype of said player – the Dew-slammin', hypercaffeinated, ultra-aggressive twitch player with m@d skillz as a twitch player and absolutely nothing else whatsoever going for him. He's got fantastic aim, nobody doubts that at all, but no abilities of battlefield analysis, strategic planning, or team coordination whatsoever, nor any remote sort of self-preservation instinct, because Call of Duty rewards none of those things. What it does reward is having fantastic aim, very fast fantastic aim, and an extreme level of blood-crazed aggression which sends you catapulting all over the map to win as many gunfights as possible, because dying is only the briefest of momentary handicaps in that game (short of losing one's streak, anyways).

MWO is trying to be a thinking man's shooter. Whether or not you figure it's there or not yet, you can't argue that such is what it wants to be. Nor can you really argue that Call of Duty does anything but actively discourage thought and strategy in favor of MOAR DEW. I know – I've played plenty of Call of Duty, and it was intensely more difficult to try and be the guy-that-outwits-you-instead-of-outshooting-you in Call than it is in MWO.

Call's great. But if I want to play Call of Duty, I already have a game for doing that. It's called Titanfall MWO is a different experience, and one most of the ultra-high-post-count-forum-mouthpieces enjoy. There's no reason to turn MWO into Call of Robotic Duty. Why can't it just keep on being MWO, hm?

Edited by 1453 R, 02 July 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[CG Chicken Kn]

Better yet, Respawn option in private matches ONLY for league games. Especially 1 v 1's or 2 v 2's.

In random public matches a system more like rotator would be as far as I could see it going. And even that needs a lot of thought. Spawn camping would absolutely be a "thing". Assaults would never, ever get off the respawn point before being obliterated.

Thus, no respawn in game, as now, is better.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I would love this. Perhaps it could be a mode like the old conquest mode in MWLL, where you respawn at the bases you hold. You cannot respawn in bases under attack that have been halfway captured and are currently being fought over, so nobody spawns on your head while you are capping unless they still hold the base....and if they do...well thems the dangers of capping.

It would give light mechs soemting to do later in the game since they are stupid fast and go "back cap" allowing some of the bigger boys to respawn in the rear and wreck havok on things.

Also you could bring a limited selection of mechs in your garage, Like say non premium players can bring 3 mechs...People with premium accounts? 5. That way they can monetize this game mode, and you can have a proper mech for a given situation...

Enemy in a wide open map and not a lot of ecm? Break out that lrm Catapult!

Lots of big slow missile boats with no min-range weapons? JENNER! I CHOOSE YOU!

[Trip Hammer]

Draykin, on 01 July 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Perhaps when your 'Mech is destroyed, repairs "in the field" can only be made to some degree? However, if it were Dropship type spawning, then I'd suggest a ticket or resource system.

Actually that might work to some degree. How about this.

• Instead of re-spawning have the capture points be repair bases that a mech can repair and rearm their mechs (ammo and such).
  
• Base the duration of you time in the bay uponthe amount of damage/re-arming that needs to be done.
  
• Include a cost to repair and rearm based upon actual damage and rearming. You could even allow someone to bail out of the bay early if they want to get back into the fight quicker or to save C-Bills.
  
• All repair bays have a finite amount of resources for repairs.
  
• If you are destroyed on the battlefield your done.

This way capturing and holding the points become important, and denying them to the other team becomes very important as well.



Just a thought.

Edited by The Faceless, 02 July 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[Abaddun]

It appears that having at least one game mode where respawns are available satisfies a colossal niche, and I would not be surprised if it brings many old players back to see how it mixes the game up. It will also be far more suitable for new and inexperienced players, as the downtime between making a mistake, getting killed and then getting back into the action will be far smaller then what it currently is now.

There are also a number of technical issues I would like to point out.

Ambushing players who have just spawned: this will inevitably be an issue(as it is in all games) especially considering how open most maps are and the long/short range high alpha builds are perfectly suited for instagibbing an unsuspecting player. Having mechs spawn in randomised locations will just break the battleline and spawn invulnerability will break immersion, so solving this problem will be quite a challenge.

Ammunition shortages: Obviously, ammunition is limited, and will run out very quickly in prolonged firefights. However if we were to refill ammo completely upon mech death, I would not be surprised if we see a increase in high alpha mechs with a limited ammo supply, that will nuke a handful of mechs, clear a way for the team, then act as a block of cover on longs in order to repeat the process. But if the respawning mechanic is implemented with a little finesse, we might see a resurgence of lasers, as a mech pilot will be forced to either lower mech flexibility/ alpha potential for an increase in sustainability. This will most likely curb the excessive use of LRMs and heavy ACs we have been seeing recently.

However it is poor form to completely reduce a weapon to uselessness, so I would suggest providing a percentage of the total ammo capacity upon respawing, and provide a means of gaining more ammunition in the field through engaging hostile mechs. Maybe add a ammunition regeneration aura to the conquest cap points or sprinkle ammo refilling stations in key hotspots.