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Understanding The "role" Of The Assault Mech.

BattleMechs Balance Gameplay

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#1 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:04 PM

Ever since this game has come out, there seems to be a severe battle over just what the "Role" of an Assault mech is.

One key issue, is that people either know nothing about armored combat tactics (sorry playing WoT does not count) or they try to view it through the "lens" of Modern Warfare. You cannot do that. By modern Warfare standards, a Battlemech is a 30 ft tall, walking target, easily destroyed by an infantryman packing a disposable rocket launcher.

The basis for design, mechanics and such, of the Battletech universe, actually has much more to do with the order of battle, tactics and such of WWII than of any modern tactics. And in that scenario, people keep making one HUGE, glaring misassumption.

That the Assault Mech, is the "Tank".

And that is just wrong, on every level. (For one thing, vs other tanks? Tanks are not terribly "tanky" to begin with, and don't weather huge amounts of incoming fire)

A successful armored attack features your MBT (Main Battle Tank/ Modern term replacing the upper end Medium Tank/Heavy Tank nomenclature of WWII) as the center piece. Assault Mechs are NOT, in general your MBTs, because MBTs are traditionally mobile, with decent armor and a big gun. In this, your centerpiece should actually be your Heavy Mechs (and mobile Assaults, like Victors, traditionally). More mobile, and because of that mobility, harder to kill, easier to bring firepower where needed.

A good armor advance needs SUPPORT elements to protect it, hence your Mediums, in effect work as your Medium and Light Armor, and your Light Mechs as the Infantry/Mounted Infantry/Tankette protecting your flanks and scouting.

What is your Assault Mech, then? http://en.wikipedia..../Tank_destroyer

That's right. Not tanks, but tank destroyers, which are deployed totally differently from Tanks, because while they usually bigger, and often better armored (at least in front) and have the biggest guns.... they are devoid of mobility in general, and as such, leading the charge, are easily flanked, swarmed and overwhelmed. The best place, usually for an Assault, is coming in BEHIND the Heavies, so that when the opposing units are flushed, then they can bring that massive frontal armor and firepower to bear on the opposing tanks.

Alternatively, you who want to bash the Stalker in the back with the LRMs? Assaults are also still the best choice for that role. Because unlike your Light/Medium/Heavy, they not only have the tonnage to spare to do it more effectively than you, but the role itself does not call for mobility.

No, this is not a perfect 1 for 1 comparison, because that is essentially, impossible. It is meant as a very basic primer for people who seem to simply not get the basics of Role Warfare. Yes the overall viability of some roles are currently suspect, and because of the current broken Poptart MEta, some of this is fuzzy (tanks, traditionally did not jump. They did use defilade fire, a lot, but in general were much less mobile about it).

I don't drive Assault, as a general rule, because I find their low mobility too defining a characteristic. I prefer Mediums, and I recognize, without me on the Big Guy's flank? He is dead fast, and that firepower deprived from my unit. So please, stop insisting the Assault lead from the front, unless, in general you WANT to keep losing.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 June 2014 - 12:11 PM.


#2 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:08 PM

One of the problems is, the mechanics really lend towards more of a hide and go seek game play.

And I don't see this version of "Heavy's leading in, with Assaults supporting" because the Heavy's are off poptarting behind a rock.

But in general, I agree and I think it's painfully clear with the Dire Wolf.

#3 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:10 PM

View PostNicholas Carlyle, on 24 June 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

One of the problems is, the mechanics really lend towards more of a hide and go seek game play.

And I don't see this version of "Heavy's leading in, with Assaults supporting" because the Heavy's are off poptarting behind a rock.

But in general, I agree and I think it's painfully clear with the Dire Wolf.

Yeah, JJS, or the current implementation of JJ/Poptarting, does indeed break some of the basic model Btech was built around (which was essentially WWII tabletop wargaming), when converted to FPS. Hoping the incoming nerfs change some of that.

It certainly doesn't change the capabilities of the average Assault mech, though.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 June 2014 - 12:10 PM.


#4 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:11 PM

Good write up and perspective Bishop.

#5 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:12 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Good write up and perspective Bishop.

Thank you sir, coming from a Vet, it is appreciated.

#6 Lynx7725

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:15 PM

Eh, you do know that historically, the tank destroyer concept had its day in the sun and then went away? Practical realities on the ground meant that tanks had to fight tanks, and waiting for TDs to show up just didn't cut it.

To me, there isn't one role that an Assault Mech has to be in. That depends on the build. Some builds are line breakers, designed and built to absorb damage while dishing it out. Others are support builds, trading mobility for firepower. Yet others are command functions, taking long range weaponry so that the pilot has the luxury of space and time to command.

Technically, you can even design and build an Assault to scout. Just ask those Steiners...

Frankly, once a player gets enough experience, I'd leave it up to him to design and build his Mech to suit his chosen role on the battlefield. Be it a ECM Atlas that starts at 700m with a rolling LRM barrage and ending with AC20s and Med Lasers, or a Blitzkrieg-style Timber Wolf flanker/ turner/ line breaker, the important thing is for the pilot to understand how his chosen role fit into a team and build accordingly. Part of that is to understand that there is many ways to build a mech for the chosen role, and learn when to ignore people who doesn't understand that.

#7 KuroNyra

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

I actually agree with that.

But the Assault Mech were also for some designed has been extremely resilient, the Atlas is THE example with the Dire Wolf who was the Clan counterpart.


The current problem is the game double armor system isn't really helping.

#8 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 June 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Yeah, JJS, or the current implementation of JJ/Poptarting, does indeed break some of the basic model Btech was built around (which was essentially WWII tabletop wargaming), when converted to FPS. Hoping the incoming nerfs change some of that. It certainly doesn't change the capabilities of the average Assault mech, though.


Agreed, not to mention the game promotes too much blobbing and staying grouped up.

I would love more objectives and dynamic game play to break into lances. And having lance composition be more important.

Like right now, there is no real reason to have your fast lights/fast mediums in one lance, slower mediums/fast heavies in another lance, and then rest of the slow pokes in a third lance.

#9 Pygar

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

Nice read.

It's possible that after the 3 rule comes into effect we will see the weight classes fall into more defined "roles"....but until then, there are too many players that just see things from a "bigger = better" standpoint and subsequently only fly Heavies and Assaults....which is why nobody wants to be "The Tank"- there's too much damage output for even 600 armor to feel safe.

Edited by Pygar, 24 June 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#10 DasaDevil

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

The problem with this assessment is that, lore wise, the Atlas is supposed to be this massive impenetrable monstrosity. You turn the corner, face down an Atlas and simply **** your pants because it is this giant wall of armor and firepower that any lesser mech is supposed to fear.. However, that isn't really the case in this game, really. Assault mechs in general are pretty anemic / go down quickly when they're actually supposed to take the brut of the firepower to begin with.

#11 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

View PostDasaDevil, on 24 June 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

The problem with this assessment is that, lore wise, the Atlas is supposed to be this massive impenetrable monstrosity. You turn the corner, face down an Atlas and simply **** your pants because it is this giant wall of armor and firepower that any lesser mech is supposed to fear.. However, that isn't really the case in this game, really. Assault mechs in general are pretty anemic / go down quickly when they're actually supposed to take the brut of the firepower to begin with.


This problem showed it's face when all we went from multiple roles and design pillars to being an arena combat sim.

When the ONLY role is killing each other, every class had to be balanced to do that.

Unfortunately, that means Assaults can't be gods.

#12 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM

View PostDasaDevil, on 24 June 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

The problem with this assessment is that, lore wise, the Atlas is supposed to be this massive impenetrable monstrosity. You turn the corner, face down an Atlas and simply **** your pants because it is this giant wall of armor and firepower that any lesser mech is supposed to fear.. However, that isn't really the case in this game, really. Assault mechs in general are pretty anemic / go down quickly when they're actually supposed to take the brut of the firepower to begin with.

Lore never stood up to even TT. And if you lasted more than 6 turns(1 Minute) of combat you did Awesome. No matter the Mech.

Most company on company games took less than 12 Turns (under 2 minutes of battle).

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 June 2014 - 12:32 PM.


#13 Willard Phule

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM

Keep in mind that here lately, at least in the PUG queue, the Assaults have another role......scout.

Lights and Mediums can't go out front to spot targets, the pinpoint damage wastes them. So, they hide behind the Assaults and snipe. Assaults get to go forward and lock targets.

#14 RF Greywolf

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:27 PM

Nice write up, I feel it shows how many assaults (not all) are made to work in MWO. Sadly in TT assault could lead from the front due to random hit locations. PP convergence and lack of twist speeds causes most assaults to not be able to 'tank' the damage that they are always written about in the lore. I am glad to see that even in MWO, an assault supported by a couple mediums/heavies can still be a monster to the enemy team. It really is just a matter of teamwork and situational awareness. Role warfare is sorely needed for the classes to be equal IMO.

#15 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:31 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Keep in mind that here lately, at least in the PUG queue, the Assaults have another role......scout.

Lights and Mediums can't go out front to spot targets, the pinpoint damage wastes them. So, they hide behind the Assaults and snipe. Assaults get to go forward and lock targets.

Thats cause they are not willing to do their duty. A scout puts itself in a bad place and risks itself to get that vital info. But in PUGs, one never knows who has what, and if scouting will be of any real use.

#16 Blackscreen

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:31 PM

Funny, from what I usually see in public matches the role of assault mechs seems to be playing peek a boo...

#17 Pygar

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:42 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Keep in mind that here lately, at least in the PUG queue, the Assaults have another role......scout.

Lights and Mediums can't go out front to spot targets, the pinpoint damage wastes them. So, they hide behind the Assaults and snipe. Assaults get to go forward and lock targets.


Mmmm....I'd say with many scouts, it has more to do with the reward system than it has to do with the risks involved. Now days, most of us know the maps pretty well, and don't really need a scout mech to tell us where the bad guys are coming from... they can be used as spotters for LRM, but that requires the scout to skimp on weapons and also depends on the other people on their team to bring LRMs and pay attention for the enhanced lock markers, and the rewards for doing so if successful are kind of "meh"- So instead, many scouts are either flying PPC/LLaser+ ECM snipers or flying close combat DPS builds (Firestarters and Jenners) because they can frequently do as much damage as anybody else that way, which in the end gives the best reward.

Edited by Pygar, 24 June 2014 - 12:47 PM.


#18 FupDup

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:44 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 24 June 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Keep in mind that here lately, at least in the PUG queue, the Assaults have another role......scout.

Lights and Mediums can't go out front to spot targets, the pinpoint damage wastes them. So, they hide behind the Assaults and snipe. Assaults get to go forward and lock targets.

Steiner Scout Lance, you say? :)

#19 Exilyth

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:25 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 June 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Yes the overall viability of some roles are currently suspect, and because of the current broken Poptart MEta, some of this is fuzzy (tanks, traditionally did not jump.   They did use defilade fire, a lot, but in general were much less mobile about it).

Jumping tanks are around since about 2650: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kanga

#20 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:31 PM

View PostLynx7725, on 24 June 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Eh, you do know that historically, the tank destroyer concept had its day in the sun and then went away? Practical realities on the ground meant that tanks had to fight tanks, and waiting for TDs to show up just didn't cut it.

To me, there isn't one role that an Assault Mech has to be in. That depends on the build. Some builds are line breakers, designed and built to absorb damage while dishing it out. Others are support builds, trading mobility for firepower. Yet others are command functions, taking long range weaponry so that the pilot has the luxury of space and time to command.

Technically, you can even design and build an Assault to scout. Just ask those Steiners...

Frankly, once a player gets enough experience, I'd leave it up to him to design and build his Mech to suit his chosen role on the battlefield. Be it a ECM Atlas that starts at 700m with a rolling LRM barrage and ending with AC20s and Med Lasers, or a Blitzkrieg-style Timber Wolf flanker/ turner/ line breaker, the important thing is for the pilot to understand how his chosen role fit into a team and build accordingly. Part of that is to understand that there is many ways to build a mech for the chosen role, and learn when to ignore people who doesn't understand that.

You do know historically, Tanks, have largely had their day in the sun? Because except when fighting against other tanks, they are not terribly practical. And Man Pack missile launchers have largely made them impractical.

In fact, mechs in general, are impractical. Hence the comment to stop viewing them as modern fighting vehicles. View the game from it's source material. And it's source, was WWII with Manga Mechs..

View PostKuroNyra, on 24 June 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

I actually agree with that.

But the Assault Mech were also for some designed has been extremely resilient, the Atlas is THE example with the Dire Wolf who was the Clan counterpart.


The current problem is the game double armor system isn't really helping.

It is and it isn't. The slow speed was always the achilles heel of Assaults, even in TT. And getting swarmed by Lighter vehicles, one of their greatest dangers. The turn based nature of TT though did minimize that some.

View PostNicholas Carlyle, on 24 June 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:


This problem showed it's face when all we went from multiple roles and design pillars to being an arena combat sim.

When the ONLY role is killing each other, every class had to be balanced to do that.

Unfortunately, that means Assaults can't be gods.

SLOW Gods. As Fast Assaults, traditionally = weak Heavy. (3050 era VTR being one of the few balanced exceptions)





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