372 replies to this topic

[FaleBowt]

kapusta11, on 02 July 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

I've been matched agains 12 (10) man groups yesterday, our team lost most of those games but all of them were close, not nearly a stomp.

We didn't even have VoIP.

L2P.

Then you've had a wonderful night. Close games are the best...but as you admit to...you've lost most of your games. The way you're boasting, if you were on an even footing (against the same opponents), you'd have won these games. Their coordinating capability was one advantage that put them over the top to seal a win. Thus, in a roundabout way, you're actually making the point that these lesser capable pilots are winning winning games that they shouldn't have.

[Kyle Wright]

Alexandrix, on 02 July 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

I have tried it your way actually.I've been in a few units.I've played as the meta humping tryhard.I had no enjoyment running nothing but the "acceptable" load outs,and stomping pugs in 4 mans.

Also,I've faced plenty of the tryhards over the last months in just the 2 man with my wife.Virtually all of the usual forumite names here have been a common staple of my games for the longest while.Bishop,vassago,jaeger,proton,twinky overlord,HHoD,SJ,kong...all of them.I am not new to your tryhard scene.I've been playing it day in and day out.

Playing against the premade 4 mans of those guys was tough enough,but we managed to do fairly well,and just accepted that that's the way things are.

I have no interest in playing your way.I have no interest in joining a huge competitive team,running only what is acceptable to run,and getting on TS with 11 other guys every time i want to just play a few rounds.

If that's how you get your jollies...that's cool...i don't care.have fun your way.I fully support a competitive scene for MWO,and hope you guys have a place to do your thing.But,don't pile me in with your large competitive groups just because I want to play a few games here and there with one other person.I am not here to be fodder or target practice for you.

If that's how PGI wants things to be,then fine,I have PLENTY of other games to spend my free time on.no big deal.

I get that, and can respect that answer. As far as the comp teams there are a lot of casual units out there that don't do strick build and run what you feel comfortable with. Units like HhoD, C4, think some of the clan wolf units. I'm sure there are more.

Look sorry for sounding like a ****. Hopefully PGI does something like 2-4 man's in solo queues and limits group ques to 4,8, and 12-mans.

[FaleBowt]

snessuk, on 02 July 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Not sure what is being said .. there are the 'Oh noes .. a premade 10-12 team against 1 4 man and PUGs' ... well hate to burst this bubble, but I was in a four man with PUG's that dropped against a 10 man pre-made .. we shared banter and laughed as the premade was brought to it's knee's. It was an excellent round of combat fun was had by all, it's not whether they are a pre-made that is the issue .. it's that maybe you are not as good a pilot as you thought you was. Been on the recieving end of a 12-3 battering, but also on the giving end of a 12-2 slapfest .. for the first time playing this I love it's direction the damage add has increased the combat time as now Mech pilots need to think more.

So should this patch be hated ? .. for me 'No', because it's made me work that much harder at being a better pilot.

I appreciate your attitude Snessuk. We (or at least I) don't argue that a less coordinated team is unable to win against a more coordinated team. We're saying that a more coordinated team has a significant advantage as long as they're playing against smaller groups.

[-Natural Selection-]

It IS NOT an issue. People just have to play smarter and communicate. We have not lost a match yet, 12 man or whoever as long as people follow a plan. The days of just being a badass and running around like a boss cuz you a 4 man are over. Step it up or step aside.

[Alexandrix]

Kyle Wright, on 02 July 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

I get that, and can respect that answer. As far as the comp teams there are a lot of casual units out there that don't do strick build and run what you feel comfortable with. Units like HhoD, C4, think some of the clan wolf units. I'm sure there are more.

Look sorry for sounding like a ****. Hopefully PGI does something like 2-4 man's in solo queues and limits group ques to 4,8, and 12-mans.

Duely noted.Sorry if i came across a bit pertubed.well,mainly because I am i guess.Nothing personal to you in particular of course.

I would be fine with the OPTION of putting myself into the large group queue,if i so chose.Who knows,maybe we feel frisky some nights and want a challenge.I am not fine with having no choice in the matter at all , other than don't play with my wife,run solo,or join a large group.

[Ursh]

I'm fine with this. I drop solo most of the time anyways, and there are enough times when my unit has 5-6 on that it will be nice for all of us to get in the same group. If we get rolled by a 12 man, so be it.

We know that we're all rock-stars with ex-supermodel girlfriends, driving our ferraris to the beach every day while our stockbrokers keep us rich, while the evil 12 mans are all nerds living in mom's basement.

[FaleBowt]

Kyle Wright, on 02 July 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

I get that, and can respect that answer. As far as the comp teams there are a lot of casual units out there that don't do strick build and run what you feel comfortable with. Units like HhoD, C4, think some of the clan wolf units. I'm sure there are more.

Look sorry for sounding like a ****. Hopefully PGI does something like 2-4 man's in solo queues and limits group ques to 4,8, and 12-mans.

You haven't been abusive in this debate mate. I can see where you're coming from and you're at least somewhat content as it is. Which is fine. We simply don't believe that units with coordinated comms, tactics, builds, and mechs (supplementing chasis) should be able to leverage that advantage against those of us that enjoy playing is smaller groups with close friends. Even if some of these groups are somewhat competative (if not fully so), playing with such disadvantages on such a regular basis goes against what PVP is supposed to entail. As I've said a few times before, if I'm playing on an equal footing the majority of the time (winning OR losing) and every so often I have this disadvantage...it's not a big deal. The problem stems with the looseness of the MM resulting in so many confirmed (by the other team) large vs small group games that I ran into tonight. I hope for the same things that you do but I also hope that in time we will have enough large groups that MM makes large groups play against each other.

[IraqiWalker]

Wait a second. I remember plenty of people saying they'd be fine with being the 1 or 2 at the end of a 10 man vs a 12 man. Now that it's here, suddenly you're not fine with it.

Solo Pugs don't face anything bigger than a 4 man on the opposite team, while 2-4 will be pitted either against solo droppers or groups Meaning it's your lance +the other 2 lances being possibly all one big premade, against the enemy team with a similar composition.

I just dropped in a 2/4/6 match against a 10/2. We lost hard. However, I expected that it could happen, since I was in a 2 man. Next match it was me and my buddy, plus 10 pugs, against 8 pugs with a 4 man. We managed to win that one, but it's besides the point. We got what the match maker promised.

2-4 will be used to fill open spots in all queues. Anything above you're only facing big groups. That's how the MM was supposed to work from the get-go.

I can understand putting 12 mans in their own queue. That part I have little to no problem with. If you are dropping as a full 12 man, you should be dealing with other 12 mans, as that would be proper practice.

[kapusta11]

FaleBowt, on 02 July 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

Then you've had a wonderful night. Close games are the best...but as you admit to...you've lost most of your games. The way you're boasting, if you were on an even footing (against the same opponents), you'd have won these games. Their coordinating capability was one advantage that put them over the top to seal a win. Thus, in a roundabout way, you're actually making the point that these lesser capable pilots are winning winning games that they shouldn't have.

I'd rather have a good lose game than a free win (being on a stomping theam's side) or "no chance to win" game.

Lesser capable pilots? In group queue almost everyone is capable, now you're just matched against groups and not PUGs and things are pretty even, It all comes down to who communicate better and have more experience playing 12 mans.

[Evil Ed]

I think when elo has adjusted to the new match maker most of the tears will dry up. it's pretty obvious that most of the sad faces are players from premades who are used to stomp premades and because of that inflated their elo. So - accept that you're not as good as you think you are and that the elo system soon will put you up against equals....

Edited by Evil Ed, 02 July 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[Robin Wolf]

Yesterday we have been running a 12, a 10, a 9 and a 6 men group. I must say, it's been a blast. Even if when a 6 men, we've been pitted against a full 12 (and we lost horribly).

On a side note, should I be in a 2-4 men group, I would like to be with other groups rather than be with random PUGs. Nothing against PUGs per se, but you know... My ELO is not that high and oh the horrors I see in my ELO bracket...

[EvilMilk]

I was worried I would get stomped running in a 4-5 man most of the time. I'd say 1 in 10 were vs a 10-12 man. Half of which we still won anyway. And half the losses were not that bad. It's an annoying but I like it more then it has ever been.
But our team would be very high on the ELO scale so we get other groups who know what to do without needing to be told.
I can not speak for the lower end and I'm sure its a bad place to be.
Perhaps they should add an ELO multiplier to group size.

Still VOIP would be the ultimate equalizer, and it is in their progress tracking page. Anything else is just a band-aid.

[Vassago Rain]

IraqiWalker, on 02 July 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

Wait a second. I remember plenty of people saying they'd be fine with being the 1 or 2 at the end of a 10 man vs a 12 man. Now that it's here, suddenly you're not fine with it.

Solo Pugs don't face anything bigger than a 4 man on the opposite team, while 2-4 will be pitted either against solo droppers or groups Meaning it's your lance +the other 2 lances being possibly all one big premade, against the enemy team with a similar composition.

I just dropped in a 2/4/6 match against a 10/2. We lost hard. However, I expected that it could happen, since I was in a 2 man. Next match it was me and my buddy, plus 10 pugs, against 8 pugs with a 4 man. We managed to win that one, but it's besides the point. We got what the match maker promised.

2-4 will be used to fill open spots in all queues. Anything above you're only facing big groups. That's how the MM was supposed to work from the get-go.

I can understand putting 12 mans in their own queue. That part I have little to no problem with. If you are dropping as a full 12 man, you should be dealing with other 12 mans, as that would be proper practice.

Egos are precious. I've been killing CLAN WOLF MC SQUARE ATTENTION INNER SPHERE SCUM all night.

[Haxburch]

I ongly drop solo and i believe 2men teams should not get in premade 12vs 12 que . Evrybody has sometimes a friend to drop together and 2 men have nearly zero impact.


But 4 men teams and bigger have not rigth at all to be in the solo que. You want comunication and super teamplay and blabla drama queen awsome gameplay skill. You get it play with your friends in 12vs12 , i dont care.

[Deathlike]

Edit: I've already said some of my peace there...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3527282


I hate to say this.. but the current iteration of the solo queue... is the derp queue. I wish I was kidding. If you're going to be a "solo queue premade stomper rock star" vs a bunch of underhive, well, you better spend some time in the big boy queue.

For those of you that unfortunately qualify... losing enough matches in the big boy queue will eventually "level your Elo" so you can play more in the solo queue. Sorry... but you have to commit from being casual to semi-good/wishing to get better.

For teamwork to succeed, the teammates individually need to be better at being a teammate.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 July 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[AlexEss]

HBizzle, on 02 July 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

This should expose how big an issue not having in game VOIP is.

Yeah... like i would leave ANY kind of in-game VoIP on or un-muted... Thanks but no thanks. I have a VoIP system that i use with people i know can behave... ish....

No what we need is not in-game VoIP , we need better command options. Trust me if people do not want to follow orders there is no difference between telling them or showing them.. and the later seem to work better.

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 02 July 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Edit: I've already said some of my peace there...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3527282


I hate to say this.. but the current iteration of the solo queue... is the derp queue. I wish I was kidding. If you're going to be a "solo queue premade stomper rock star" vs a bunch of underhive, well, you better spend some time in the big boy queue.

For those of you that unfortunately qualify... losing enough matches in the big boy queue will eventually "level your Elo" so you can play more in the solo queue. Sorry... but you have to commit from being casual to semi-good/wishing to get better.

For teamwork to succeed, the teammates individually need to be better at being a teammate.

Quoted for all the truths, about teamwork anyway.

The biggest issue I've seen in the 'team queue' is that most small teams don't want to team up. They want to go do their thing. Go the opposite direction, etc.

Okay, so you act like pugs you get pugged. It's that simple. I could pug in the group queue and do fine by comparison.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 02 July 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Quoted for all the truths, about teamwork anyway.

The biggest issue I've seen in the 'team queue' is that most small teams don't want to team up. They want to go do their thing. Go the opposite direction, etc.

Okay, so you act like pugs you get pugged. It's that simple. I could pug in the group queue and do fine by comparison.

If you're going to derp anyways, the "solo queue" is perfect for that. It really is.

I've never seen people willing to do stuff for once, instead of "screw you, hell no".

The difference in quality is night and day.

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 02 July 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

If you're going to derp anyways, the "solo queue" is perfect for that. It really is.

I've never seen people willing to do stuff for once, instead of "screw you, hell no".

The difference in quality is night and day.

Depends how you pugboss. I do alright with it. Admittedly I've spent a year working on that skill. It's harder than poptarting, to be honest. Atlas or Jenner with NARC work well for it.

A NARC Jenner is actually a good choice - most pug player will chase little red triangles. You give them one that doesn't go away and they'll follow it and shoot at it.

It's almost like reverse herding. It works rather well.

[Aresye]

The problem with the matchmaker is group disparity. Always has been.

Generally from what I've observed over the countless roflstomps and poor matchmaking prior to this patch is that the matchmaker was actually fairly good for matching groups (most of the time). Now, when I say, "matching," I mean the matchmaker seemed to go, "3 groups on this side, 3 groups on the other," and you end up with three full groups of 4 vs two groups of 3, and one group of 2. There also seemed to be no form of Elo matching between groups, so many times I'll be playing with 3 new players in my unit and get matched against an experienced premade of Lords, SJR, HHoD, etc.

Barring Elo differences aside, the lack of group sizes being matched seems to be the biggest issue with the new matchmaker. Just got done playing a few games as a 7-9 group, but every single game we seemed to get matched against groups no bigger than 3 or 4 on the other side, and that's a huge issue.

Like expected, we rolled pretty much every game (I think the closest was 12-5), and while some players may want to pad their stats, most just want to have a fun game where they're challenged and fight their best.

Those few games I played in a larger group is a detriment to both sides. For the losing side, it's absolutely infuriating to go against a large coordinated group, but for the winning side, it will actually make you perform worse!

Why? It's too easy. You're relaxed, you're taking more time to line up better shots, and you're telling your teammates to move, flank, and line up in ways that will ONLY work when facing an unorganized team of smaller groups. There's no sense of urgency, no heart-pounding, white knuckled terror that comes from wondering if your team is going to do something stupid. You know exactly how everything is playing out, there's little to no guesswork in what your team needs to do, and the most detrimental part of it all...

...You ARE NOT punished for your MISTAKES!

I honestly don't want to fight in large groups against disorganized teams as much as disorganized teams don't want to drop against large groups. Why? Because I'm going to become a worse player! I'm going to become complacent, and these kinds of drops DO NOT remotely resemble an actual competitive 12v12 match, meaning units wanting to train competitively will be lulled into a false sense of confidence by these matches.