109 replies to this topic

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Just how do you think an acl injury to a mech would be represented.......?

It wouldn't. A tech would replace the connection point in between myomer muscle and ferro titanium bone when the mech is next in a repair gantry.

[Smegmw]

RampancyTW, on 04 July 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

People need to adjust to cutting throttle a bit when going down slopes

A little bit of throttle control will keep you grounded just fine

An element of piloting skill is added into the game and ZOMG THE WORLD IS ENDING

Gamers are outright lazy these days, maybe it's just the Tribes background but having to navigate slopes carefully while travelling at high speed feels pretty natural to me

As a real human being runner when going downhill I take shorter strides more frequently and lean back to maintain speed so I don't launch off the ground. Surely mechs can do this as well.

[KhanCipher]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

As a real human being runner when going downhill I take shorter strides more frequently and lean back to maintain speed so I don't launch off the ground. Surely mechs can do this as well.

Lostech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

It wouldn't. A tech would replace the connection point in between myomer muscle and ferro titanium bone when the mech is next in a repair gantry.

great. And until they get to the mechbay?

"Snap" goes the pseudo ACL.

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 July 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

great. And until they get to the mechbay?

"Snap" goes the pseudo ACL.

How many times have you had an ACL go snap?



Exactly. It has taken me about 30 years of athletic pursuits before I have had any type of bone/muscle connecting fiber injury.



ACL's are durable and can take allot of abuse before being catastrophically damaged. I would imagine a mech equivalent of an ACL is even more durable than a human ACL. Try again.

KhanCipher, on 05 July 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Lostech.

Angle of orientation to the ground and length/cadence of stride are hardly lostech. Try again.

To further expand since it appears you have no idea, the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface translates the mechs movements and balance from the pilots sense of balance to a mech. So your unconscious balance impulses that would keep you upright as a human being get translated through the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface and tell a mech to lean back and take shorter stirdes that are quicker as an automatic thing.

Before you show your ignorance again if the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface becomes lostech then mechs can no longer be operated.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[SgtMagor]

crimson strait, tested this numerous times, make a left and walk to the other tunnel entrance. I was able to damage every mech I tried, by walking off the road, theres a ledge facing the tunnel. don't recall how fast I was going but it couldn't have been that fast was in a Dire wolf, Atlas and Warhawk.

[Bishop Steiner]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

How many times have you had an ACL go snap?



Exactly. It has taken me about 30 years of athletic abuse before I have had any type of bone/muscle connecting fiber injury.



ACL's are durable and can take allot of abuse before being catastrophically damaged. I would imagine a mech equivalent of an ACL is even more durable than a human ACL. Try again.


Angle of orientation to the ground and length/cadence of stride are hardly lostech. Try again.

twice.
Once contact, once non. Also had my mcl and PCL injured in the contact tear, and have had my achilles torn, too. That actually hurt one HECK of a lot more.

Football is a rough sport (As is soccer, on the legs). The other was quite simply landing wrong while running, leg crumpled. Maybe you should pay more attention to pro sports, the majority of ACL and MCL injuries in them are in NON-contact scenarios, and they are an absolute epidemic.

In most of those instances, one actually tends to do far more cutbacks and sharp plants and turns, then pure running, just as in combat, one is doing far more zigzagging and planting and turning that a trail runner.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 July 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 July 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

twice.
Once contact, once non. Also had my mcl and PCL injured in the contact tear, and have had my achilles torn, too. That actually hurt one HECK of a lot more.

Football is a rough sport (As is soccer, on the legs). The other was quite simply landing wrong while running, leg crumpled. Maybe you should pay more attention to pro sports, the majority of ACL and MCL injuries in them are in NON-contact scenarios, and they are an absolute epidemic.

In most of those instances, one actually tends to do far more cutbacks and sharp plants and turns, then pure running, just as in combat, one is doing far more zigzagging and planting and turning that a trail runner.

Do you see a doctor after every sports engagement and get diagnosed and told what stretches to do and prescribed a drug treatment to help heal?


Exactly you don't.


A mech goes into a repair gantry after every engagement and gets looked over by one if not multiple mech techs. Try again.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Do you see a doctor after every sports engagement and get diagnosed and told what stretches to do and prescribed a drug treatment to help heal?


Exactly you don't.


A mech goes into a repair gantry after every engagement and gets looked over by one if not multiple mech techs. try again.


A mech goes into a repair gantry after every

actually you see a trainer and go through a regimen of stretches, cold tubs, etc, and not uncommon to see the doctor.

And Military Vehicles get serviced between engagements today. Yet tanks, Planes, etc all fail, "out of the blue" because of unseen damage that the usual cursory maintenance and investigations miss, such as micro stresses, etc.

More vehicles were lost to the Coalition, during Desert Shield, to equipment failure, than to enemy fire during Desert Storm.

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 July 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

actually you see a trainer and go through a regimen of stretches, cold tubs, etc, and not uncommon to see the doctor.

And Military Vehicles get serviced between engagements today. Yet tanks, Planes, etc all fail, "out of the blue" because of unseen damage that the usual cursory maintenance and investigations miss, such as micro stresses, etc.

More vehicles were lost to the Coalition, during Desert Shield, to equipment failure, than to enemy fire during Desert Storm.

When is the last time you had your ACL replaced by a doctor? Try again.

Knowing the shortcuts and materials deficiencies that most of the armed forces of the world suffer it's not surprising that military earth vehicles fail. Try again


The problem you face in this argument is that you are comparing flesh, blood and materials that we know to fantasy machines. There is no winning argument. Battle mechs in the fiction that describes them are impossible fighting machines that destroy anything and everything in their path and are repaired to be as good as new for next time.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

keep arguing, doesn't make you any more right, and tbh, it's obvious, that is all you are trying to do now, "win an argument", even in your own mind, so have it, keep going.

I will reserve my comments for those actually looking to make the game better. (and who remotely know what they are talking about)

try again.

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 July 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

keep arguing, doesn't make you any more right, and tbh, it's obvious, that is all you are trying to do now, "win an argument", even in your own mind, so have it, keep going.

I will reserve my comments for those actually looking to make the game better. (and who remotely know what they are talking about)

try again.

It's obvious you were trying to win an argument as well without knowing much if anything about the fictional BattleTech universe.

Stop trying reality cannot compare or win against fantasy.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Smegmw]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 July 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

keep arguing, doesn't make you any more right, and tbh, it's obvious, that is all you are trying to do now, "win an argument", even in your own mind, so have it, keep going.

I will reserve my comments for those actually looking to make the game better. (and who remotely know what they are talking about)

try again.

Just because I like fantasy to win lets put forth a reality versus fantasy comparison that anyone can agree with.

let's take a low damage balistic weapon designed to be used against humans a 9mm Pistol.

You take a stock human being and shoot it in the center of mass with a 9mm Pistol you have a dead human being in short order.

Lets take a low damage ballistic weapon designed to be used against a battle mech an autocannon/2

You take a stock battle mech and shoot it in the center of mass with an autocannon/2 and it continues to wage war destroying anything it wants to.

Comparing reality to fantasy even in the abstract is senseless and a losing proposition. So we must compare fantasy to fantasy.

Lori Kalmar operated a Locust on a mountain in book one Decision at Thunder Rift of The Saga of the Gray Death Legion. Nowhere in the book do you see the statement or suggestion that the legs of her Locust got damaged at all by operating it on the mountain.

In another example while the Gray Death Legion was on Helm when they discovered the Helm memory core they operated all types and sizes of mechs within mountainous terrain. At no time during those operations in the mountains is mentioned any leg damage to any mech unless it was battle damage from a weapon.

By the only source we have being the fiction of the BattleTech universe mechs do not suffer leg damage during normal operation. By this it is a reasonable assumption that the fantasy technology of a battle mech compensates for drops, twists and hard stops during normal operation.

Please Bishop Steiner read the BattleTech universe books and find something and quote it to solidly refute this post. At least then we will know you have some knowledge of the fantasy BattleTech universe and can take you seriously.

PS I don't try to win arguments. I do win arguments.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Quit derailing this thread all of you, this is a discussion about big stomping robots not people....

[Bacl]

I did complain about and i suspect there's been a "ninja patch" on this. First game i played with my locust when the patch came out i blew my my leg in tourmaline desert, simply running over small bumps and going down hill was damaging my legs. Gave it another few games today and on these 5 games i got Tourmaline. No problem except for the very obvious jumps or dive from cliffs.

I think all the ranting did bear fruits but nothing official told us they did a quick fix on it.

[krash27]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

How many times have you had an ACL go snap?



Exactly. It has taken me about 30 years of athletic pursuits before I have had any type of bone/muscle connecting fiber injury.



ACL's are durable and can take allot of abuse before being catastrophically damaged. I would imagine a mech equivalent of an ACL is even more durable than a human ACL. Try again.


Angle of orientation to the ground and length/cadence of stride are hardly lostech. Try again.

To further expand since it appears you have no idea, the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface translates the mechs movements and balance from the pilots sense of balance to a mech. So your unconscious balance impulses that would keep you upright as a human being get translated through the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface and tell a mech to lean back and take shorter stirdes that are quicker as an automatic thing.

Before you show your ignorance again if the Mech pilot/neurohelmet/gyro/mech computer interface becomes lostech then mechs can no longer be operated.

And what about yourself? using simple physics. Look at the size of a mech in relation to gravity etc and compare that to the size of a person.
At a specific gravity , when something like a mech gets larger the components need to scale accordingly as the strains increase by an order of magnitude. You can not just make something 20 times bigger than a person and expect it to work, it must be engineered to handle the extra stresses that its larger mass brings. Otherwise we would not need engineers because everything would just be proportionate, which is absolutely NOT the case.

[Macksheen]

Good stuff Bishop.

My concern isn't those - it is as was said, the little edge cases. I started up a ramp on HPG in a Summoner running full speed, got somewhere betrween waist and knee-height, turned off the ramp and took 3% damage (best as I can figure from memory at least). When I've got free time, I'm going to do what you did - jump in TR and replicate a few of my "erwtf" moments and see what the #s really are.

[Mavairo]

The problem remains, that this punishes non jj mechs more than it does jj equipped ones.

And JJ mechs have long since made non jj mechs look like jokes in battlefield agility, and mobility, thanks to the hillclimbing penalties.

NO ONE that is fine with this patch has yet to successfully explain to me why it's okay for this
to take damage when it takes so much longer to traverse the battlefield (despite the same speed when they're both on the ground)

https://www.youtube....qAKciaLL8WnQb_Q

It's pretty obvious WHY this penalizes non jump jet mechs more than it does JJ mechs when looking at the same pieces of terrain.

When doing GTFO maneuvers thanks to this patch, JJ mechs got even better than they already were by the Nerf that smacked the non JJ mechs.

You don't even have to try all that hard at preventing fall damage when you have Jump Jets.
Driving the Jester and Dragon with equal speed and zeal, the Dragon will leg itself, and assuming the Jester pilot isn't utterly smashed (like I was when I filmed both of these) will not only NOT take any significant damage to his or her mech's legs, they will continue to run bloody rings around the Dragon by scaling hills at much higher velocities.

Because of JJs the jump mechs can get away from enemy fire, with complete abandon, while the other guy? He gets to come to a complete crawl, depend 100 percent on the fact that there's a ledge between the top of the hill and the bottom of the fall to slow down the fall velocity. Dramatically increasing his exposure time.

Popretarting and jump jets were ALREADY head, shoulders and hands for that matter above non jump jet mechs. Did we really need yet ANOTHER reason to take JJ mechs?'
Gameplay dynamics were also ALREADY about crawling slow moving gunlines. Did we really need a patch to FURTHER encourage timidity in mobility and willingness to advance or retreat?

MWO needed to encourage all of these behaviors about as much as a bull needs mammary glands.

Edited by Mavairo, 05 July 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[Smegmw]

krash27, on 05 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

And what about yourself? using simple physics. Look at the size of a mech in relation to gravity etc and compare that to the size of a person.
At a specific gravity , when something like a mech gets larger the components need to scale accordingly as the strains increase by an order of magnitude. You can not just make something 20 times bigger than a person and expect it to work, it must be engineered to handle the extra stresses that its larger mass brings. Otherwise we would not need engineers because everything would just be proportionate, which is absolutely NOT the case.

Not the case that fantasy battle mechs are built right? Are you assuming that a fantasy engineer is not using fantasy materials like ferro titanium?

Making the reality to fantasy comparison even in the abstract is senseless and a losing proposition. So we must compare fantasy to fantasy.

Edited by Smegmw, 05 July 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Smegmw, on 05 July 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

Not the case that fantasy battle mechs are built right?

Making the reality to fantasy comparison even in the abstract is senseless and a losing proposition. So we must compare fantasy to fantasy.

Cool, so lets make them Gundams that fly and skate and have laser swords...... and can do ballet!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 July 2014 - 05:21 PM.