54 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

The Basilisk, on 04 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I observed Mechs to be more resistent / or near invulnerable while igniting jumpjets.

In the observed cases I saw mechs standing still and firing jets in second intervalls while blasting away at enemys without beeing downed be three or more foes firing for minutes at them.

It's been a problem for a while.
PGI's recent jumpjet 'fixes' seems to have completely ignored it, keeping the boost with no sign of a jumping delay (which would give the HSR time to prepare for it; force half of the jump -- thusly removing the JJ spam and thusly removing the abuse)... or removing the "initial boost" altogether in favor of more power in jumpjets to actually lift you without suddenly throwing you in the air and allowing you to accelerate as you go up.

[Tesunie]

Just decided to test this out in a match (was a grouped match, we were a 2 man, with no large groups, fighting a 12 man who was being really rude). I was in my Quickdraw. I still died, but I did seem to be able to take a LOT more firepower than I should have been able to take before I died... (I had also lost a leg before hand, so I wasn't able to move. Figured it was as good a time as any time to try it out.)

I also observed this same mechanic being used by a Catapult in one of my matches (I was in a 5 man team at the time, fighting an 8 man and filler on the other side), He took more firepower than he should have taken, as on my screen I had 6 med lasers on his CT for the whole burn (he wasn't even moving really), a LL, an UAC5 and LRMs. I seemed to have caused very little damage to him. (Others of my team were also focusing fire on him.)

I'd have to say, from not only observation and use, yeah. This isn't right.

Funny though, I didn't start to see this game play till I started to play in the group queue... I haven't seen it in my PUG matches (personally at least). (This is just an observation. I'm saying nothing between the lines. So don't think I'm accusing anyone of anything.)

[Hellen Wheels]

In NetMech, one could continuously tap the spacebar and have practically unlimited JJ b/c of the way it recharged.

In every league I was in, there was a gentlemen's agreement that that was not to be used in matches, and it wasn't. Anyone who did was shunned.

Armor hacks, weapon hacks, etc., all of which were pretty easy to implement, were not used--on an honor system.

Honor went out the door around 1999, I think. Hasn't been back since.

[Tesunie]

Hellen Wheels, on 11 July 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

In NetMech, one could continuously tap the spacebar and have practically unlimited JJ b/c of the way it recharged.

In every league I was in, there was a gentlemen's agreement that that was not to be used in matches, and it wasn't. Anyone who did was shunned.

Armor hacks, weapon hacks, etc., all of which were pretty easy to implement, were not used--on an honor system.

Honor went out the door around 1999, I think. Hasn't been back since.

Same with not shooting the legs out from under a mech... Back when I played MW4 online a little bit. Legging was highly discouraged, especially if your opponent was actually in a light mech (a rare sight normally).

[Enigmos]

A macro to automatically wait the required time for a gauss to spin up before releasing isn't what I think of as a hack. A hack is spoofing your location to the server such that you aren't where you appear to other players.

[Tesunie]

OriginalTibs, on 11 July 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

A macro to automatically wait the required time for a gauss to spin up before releasing isn't what I think of as a hack. A hack is spoofing your location to the server such that you aren't where you appear to other players.

We aren't talking about a Macro to make shooting a Gauss easier. We are talking about how the jump mechanic can cause a moment of "invincibility" and how some players "in the know" are exploiting this issue to their advantage. It isn't a hack. It's a bug that people are abusing. It'd be like knowing there is a (fictional) bug that lets you be able to place a free Gauss onto your mech and let you be able to load into a match with it. If your mech can't take a Guass and you use this theoretical bug to place one on with 0 tonnage and not taking any slots, you'd be exploiting the system and using a known bug to your advantage.

Now, doing it once to "test it out" isn't a big deal. You test it. Find out it's true. Report the bug and never use it again. That isn't exploiting it. If you use it all the time, it'd be an exploit.
On the other hand, if it's a bug that is known, but there is nothing you can do about it and have to play with it, you aren't abusing the bug (you aren't exploiting) as you can't avoid it.
(Such as for example, I think there might be a bug with CERLLs where they will occasionally deal their full damage to the first component they hit, even if they only brushed you with the laser. I've noticed in my matches, though I can't confirm it, that occasionally I'll get brushed with a CERLL and suddenly, for the slight brushing, have no armor left on the component it brushed against first and no other splash damage anywhere else. I've noticed this particularly when in a fast mech. If this is a true bug (I can't prove it right now, but I suspect), then there is nothing that a clan mech can do about it. I wouldn't ask them to stop placing CERLLs on all their mechs, as that would be kinda crazy. Thus, if true, it isn't an exploit as there is nothing one can do about it.)
(I also am suspecting that Target Deprivation Module is also messing up NARC, causing NARC to either fall off the mech very quickly (it stops working), or turns it off randomly. I've confirmed that a mech that was hit with NARC shortly after (with no ECM and with me maintaining line of sight) will suddenly lose the NARC beacon effects even though they literally just got hit with it and was showing it's effects a few moments before. Then, randomly, the NARC pod will turn back on some time later. No ECM interfering still. If this is also true, then it wouldn't be an exploit, as there is nothing one can do to prevent or control the effect.)

[TheStrider]

Haven't encountered this issue myself.

Last night I shot a spider at point blank who was trying to JJ over me with dual gauss... He blowed up gud.

[Tesunie]

TheStrider, on 11 July 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Haven't encountered this issue myself.

Last night I shot a spider at point blank who was trying to JJ over me with dual gauss... He blowed up gud.

It's not the use of JJs that's causing the problem, it's flickering them while not actually jumping. It seems to give the server a false concept on where your mech is. Flickering your JJs to not actually jump is making the server place your hit boxes in the air above you suddenly, while graphically you are still on the ground. It's not preventing the damage, but make it so most damage visually hits, but don't hit at all, or only clips pieces of the legs instead being a solid hit on the targeted component.

[Panzerbjorn]

So I've been testing this out casually over the last few days in various JJ-equipped mechs I own. I can say without a doubt that it often helps to not get completely obliterated quite so quickly even with a full lance primary striking you, but it doesn't make you invulnerable. I will add that it makes your mech move at less than half its normal speed and also makes targeting other mechs very difficult if not impossible since screen shake is almost always a factor when you're tapping your JJs 2-3 times per second.

I will say that I have seen a lot of high-Elo players and 12-man teams in the last week (since I've been made aware of this glitch) using this technique, and while it DID make them harder to hit and register shots against, we were still able to down them. One notable thing I've noticed: players abusing this tactic often appear to "rubber band" as well as glitching up and down vertically, which makes it confusing and hard to pinpoint them. Teammates who were in front of or behind their path of travel had a much less difficult time hitting them than teammates who were oblique to their path of travel.

YMMV, but hopefully PGI fixes this.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hellen Wheels, on 11 July 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

In NetMech, one could continuously tap the spacebar and have practically unlimited JJ b/c of the way it recharged.

In every league I was in, there was a gentlemen's agreement that that was not to be used in matches, and it wasn't. Anyone who did was shunned.

Armor hacks, weapon hacks, etc., all of which were pretty easy to implement, were not used--on an honor system.

Honor went out the door around 1999, I think. Hasn't been back since.

That was a bug, one they never could get fixed. And hacks were in use in MW2 a lot more than people realized, honor wasn't quite as wide spread as people thought. But since Activision didn't actually do anything to stop them nor had any way to ban or stop people from using them, it was up to the various leagues to police the game, and that was done by manually going through the mech files for every mech used in the drops. MW2, MW2:GBL and MW2:Mercs all used a file sharing system for each drop, everyone got a copy of everyone else's mech file. Some people would take those files and edit them AFTER a match to make it seem someone had used a hack, those were easily caught though due to people forgetting about the file creation/alteration dates. Someone tried that on me, turned in a mech file he said I'd used on him that had the correct creation date but had been altered during a time I wasn't online due to being in the hospital, something the league knew about as I'd informed them of the absence because I ran a unit and my XO was taking over while I was gone. Someone else did that but renamed my variant Mother to HIS own online nick....don't ask, no one said people who use hacks in video games were smart.

That was all with a client side run game, so it's not something well see in MWO, there's not any hacks out that actually work with the current game due to PGI having redone so much of how the networking works by changing it from a client side to server side engine. Early on we had issues with some of the CryTek engine hacks working, but not anymore. Exploits, different story, people will always try to find them and use them, that's true from kids playing t-ball to the major league sports where athletes get paid millions a year, nothing new there. We just have to keep an eye open for them and report the offenders and let PGI sort it out.

[Wesxander]

Funny I do what you talking about with my mech still die very fast. Many of you complaining about jj exploit are the same guys using 3 rd party programs and saying that is legit. I find that ironic. A lot you posting get rid of this so called exploit using 3rd party program's I think it needs to be the other way around. Get rid of the hacks and 3rd party exploits. Half you guys claiming to be experts couldn't attend an in person tournament and play the same way you do the server. Strange that. As far JJ the need fix the godamn issue with falling damage now. I seen mechs fall huge distance no freaking damage whatsoever. Then a light mech with jump jets falls 3 ft off ledge (without jumpin at all) and loses a godamn leg from the damage. None you wanting JJ gone addressed that little bug fact. So keep running your mouths about exploits and ignore the fact your using 3rd party software to do things in game you shouldn't be able to do.

[Wesxander]

FYI panzer post the video consistently of JJ making you super resistant to damage. I have found it to be quite opposite. Maybe I will post the video of all the godamn autoaimers that shoot down at ground level where I was while I am in the air. FYI there is skill in JJ from cover to cover snap shoting. It's a lot hack progams that can't compensate for that kind play from what I have seen in game. It is why I think you are calling for a nerf. Post your video of you being invulnerable in game play. Knowing you will counter that recording matches is un fair.

[Ironwithin]

*groans* So it's that time of the month again, is it ?
At least you didn't make a new topic this time ...

[Tesunie]

Wesxander, on 12 July 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

Funny I do what you talking about with my mech still die very fast. Many of you complaining about jj exploit are the same guys using 3 rd party programs and saying that is legit. I find that ironic. A lot you posting get rid of this so called exploit using 3rd party program's I think it needs to be the other way around. Get rid of the hacks and 3rd party exploits. Half you guys claiming to be experts couldn't attend an in person tournament and play the same way you do the server. Strange that. As far JJ the need fix the godamn issue with falling damage now. I seen mechs fall huge distance no freaking damage whatsoever. Then a light mech with jump jets falls 3 ft off ledge (without jumpin at all) and loses a godamn leg from the damage. None you wanting JJ gone addressed that little bug fact. So keep running your mouths about exploits and ignore the fact your using 3rd party software to do things in game you shouldn't be able to do.

...

I can inform you that I have also noticed the same things the other people here have mentioned. I don't use macros. I don't use anything that isn't already in the game. I found when I tapped the JJs without actually jumping up, in a live match, I was able to survive against several mechs a lot longer than I should have, seen as I was legged and standing still.

I think someone needs to calm down and take a few breaths here...

(PS: Liking your own post doesn't make your point sound any better, and is considered to be of poor form.)

[Kristov Kerensky]

Wesxander, I don't use any macros, even though my mouse and kb both have options for them. I also don't use the JJ exploit on my JJ capable Mechs because I KNOW it's there and I know it's an exploit of a bug that's known, which, btw, IS a bannable offense.

And I'd be more than happy to attend a LAN event if my job allowed me the free time to do so, I work 6 days a week and I'm on call when I'm not actually at the office, there's no way my boss will give me the time off to go play video games. HE went to the World Cup this year, but I can't even take a few days to sit at home and do nothing...