46 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

ThermidorFallen, on 05 July 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Only problem with that is we'd have another skill in the tree that's a placeholder XD

Truth be told they didn't do that when they disabled the fast fire...though they did eventually re-enable it.

Now, supposedly they plan to revamp the skill tree or at least the values... this sounds like a five second job. But somehow I suspect PGI's tendency to hard-code stuff into the game is at work here and rampant fears of breaking something if they actually tried to fix something might be running amonk.

....Who wants to take bets that they'll bandaid the skill tree with a second one instead, rather than the IGP/NGNG suggested per mech/per variant unique skill trees or the 'choices' skill tree with permanent choices of what to unlock based on how you like to play (which would and should replace the original one)?

Edited by Koniving, 05 July 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[Lykaon]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 July 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Is acs should be burst fire but with shorter bursts...like 3 or even 2 per shot and shorter time between bursts. THey also need a velocity buff.

Large laser ghost heat scale has always been to low...It should nt have had a ghost heat set on that weapon in the first place. WHO complained about large laser alpha builds? They were always high risk to reward. UP it to 6 or gtfo.

I'd also say bump IS ppc ghost heat up to 3 possibly. so energy boats like the awesome and that one model of the Banshee i never see could have some nice knockdown weapons without overheating like a fat hog.

Here is my take on this.

I.S. AC should go to burst fire.Keep the burst as 3 shots as a clan weapon currently has but increase the projectile velocity over the clan versions slightly.

Large lasers and ER lrg lasers should have ghost heat at three.Having the fourth laser triggering the ghost heat.

The PPC, have ghost heat kick in at the second ppc fired (down from 2) but drop basic heat down.Have the 90m min. range 0 damage changed to 100% damage from 0-90m but applied as a splash effect dispersing damage around the targeted area like a wide spread LBx shot.

ER-PPC remain at 2 ghost heat threshold reduce the basic heat a bit.Have the ER-PPC splash for 8/1/1 to take the sting off the FLD pinpoint a bit.

Increase medium and medium pulse lasers ghostheat thresholds to 7 to normalize a bit with clan damage outputs (not a real issue with the few mechs available with 7+ energy hardpoints but...why not)

I also think ALL gauss rifles should have the charge mechanic removed but alter the firing effect to have all gauss fire three 5 point damage "shells" with a very fast burst time.This should cause dispersed damage paterns when fired from fast moving mechs and poptarts but not severly impact carefully aimed sniping shots.

[Cyborne Elemental]

This is hard for me to admit, but the burstfire AC mechanic of clan weapons did seem to work on shutting down the AC/PPC meta for doing 100% PP FLD.

If it were me, the only AC that it makes sense to be burst fire is the UAC-5 with its multibarrel design.
IS AC-10 and AC-20 really need to remain as a single massive slug, but the AC-10 and AC-20 need their old velocities back.

Problem is, now the clans have an even more powerful meta load with 60dmg PP FLD ERPPCx2 GAUSSx2 on the Direwolf, and 45dmg PP FLD ERPPCx2 GAUSSx1 poptart with the Madcat, and massive heat management to alpha over and over and with MASSIVE crit %'s, its ruinous to gameplay.

Seeing an atlas lose a torso in 2 hits.. just makes me sick.

What really kills me, is when these clan mechs are available for MC/CB in the future, why would anyone want to play an IS mech ever again.

We're going to have games with the complete absence of any IS mechs, with maybe exception to DC atlas, or the other ECM lights, and IMO that completely destroys the game.

Edited by Mister D, 05 July 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Mcgral18]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Half the capacity.

Buff sinks to 2.0.

Map temperature has 0 effect on your capacity, only dissapation. Capacity is determined by number and type of sinks.

Introduce more detrimental effects on overheating your mech such as damage to internals for keeping your reactor constantly redlined, resulting in more heat effecient builds rather than high alpha cram builds. This heat system wold have murdered 6x ppc stalkers before they even became a thing.

Edit: you could change that pilot buff to increasing the heat capacity each heatsink provides, rewarding people who invest in large amounts of sinks to keep high energy builds cool...at 20+ doubles, even IS doubles, I should not be feeling so much pain from just 2 or even 3 CHAINFIRED er ppcs.

If you have 17 or fewer DHS, you have better than 2.0 dissipation per heatsink.

As such, the game would become much slower, and energy builds would be even worse. You'd need 6x dissipation per DHS to equal TT dissipation on most weapons due to 3x recycle, which would be excessive.

Mister D, on 05 July 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is hard for me to admit, but the burstfire AC mechanic of clan weapons did seem to work on shutting down the AC/PPC meta for doing 100% PP FLD.

If it were me, the only AC that it makes sense to be burst fire is the UAC-5 with its multibarrel design.
IS AC-10 and AC-20 really need to remain as a single massive slug, but the AC-10 and AC-20 need their old velocities back.

Problem is, now the clans have an even more powerful meta load with 60dmg PP FLD ERPPCx2 GAUSSx2 on the Direwolf, and 45dmg PP FLD ERPPCx2 GAUSSx1 poptart with the Madcat, and massive heat management to alpha over and over and with MASSIVE crit %'s, its ruinous to gameplay.

Seeing an atlas lose a torso in 2 hits.. just makes me sick.

What really kills me, is when these clan mechs are available for MC/CB in the future, why would anyone want to play an IS mech ever again.

We're going to have games with the complete absence of any IS mechs, with maybe exception to DC atlas, or the other ECM lights, and IMO that completely destroys the game.

Quick correction, 50 PP FLD 10spread and 35 PP FLD with 10 spread.

And don't forget to mention the IS HGN 732 with it's 45 PP FLD along with JJs.


As for why people would still use IS mechs...some of the Clan mechs simply aren't very good. You can walk circles around Daishis in even the slow Nova. The Nova has sub optimal hitboxes and hardpoint locations, and lack of tonnage to mount anything other than lasers in those large arms.

TBR might be valid, but it still has pretty poor tonnage for the weight class, and hitboxes that aren't stellar, but better than some.


I won't even start on the IS bursts, but I support them.


Also, when you mention the TimberTart, feel free to throw 2 ERPPCs and 15 or 16 DHS on your mech and head to the testing grounds. Tell us how many times you can fire. That thing is very hot.

[Dracol]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Buff sinks to 2.0.

Just a point of fact about Double Heat Sinks. With double basic efficiencies unlocked, engine heat sinks are beyond 2.0. If I remember the numbers correctly, at 10 engine DHS and 3 external DHS, and double basic unlocked, you're at an average of 2.0. Anything less you're running better, anything more, less.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Just as a thought experiment, what would be the result with current weapon heat levels, if we made SHS dissipate 0.30 h/s and DHS dissipate 0.60 h/s.

With Cool Run: SHS would be 0.3225 h/s and DHS would be 0.645 h/s.

With 2x Basics: SHS would be 0.345 h/s and DHS would be 0.69 h/s.

Let's say that the heat cap was a hard 20. Heat Containment would make that 22, and 2x Basics would make it 24.

Anyone care to do the math on a Awesome 9M? Could it chain fire its 3x ERPPCs with the stock 20 DHS and not kill itself? What about the 8Q and its 3x PPCs and 28 SHS?

[AssaultPig]

I think they did a good job balancing the clan weapons, overall. IS weapons feel appropriately 'different' without feeling particularly underpowered. I would like to see some sort of fix for PPC/gauss combos, but that's not restricted to clan mechs anyway.

Where I think IS mechs fall down is durability; clan XLs don't lead to nearly as much vulnerability as IS XL engines, especially since a STD engine mech that manages to lose both STs is usually dead in a few more moments anyway. Clan XLs provide the best of both worlds. And they actually feel really good; you can move quickly and mount a lot of firepower, but taking some damage and even losing components doesn't restrict your ability to fight on as much as it does with an IS XL.

Thus, I think IS XLs should be given the dual torso destruction requirement that the clan variants have. IS STD engines could become a bit lighter to ensure that they remain a viable option in some builds. With IS durability ticked up to clan mech levels, I think things would be pretty solidly balanced.

Edited by AssaultPig, 05 July 2014 - 02:29 PM.