155 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

It's funny how some people think that a steamroll means there was a premade in a team.

Here are some "facts" (that may or may not be 100% true).

Once a team loses a couple of players there is a higher chance of a steamroll.
The more players lost, the higher the chance of a steamroll.
Stopping a steamroll requires using good tactics.
Most MWO players can't even spell tactics.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Have to laugh. Same guys said the same things about synch drops last year till it was proven by themselves here on the forum.

So they use the same keywords as before instead of countering any argument. LOL

Lets ignore the fact its entirely possible to link up on teamspeak and drop together into solo and chances are good you will end up on the same team. Honestly a trusted group should try it and record the results. Only way to know for sure.

Now I am just playing detective. Without a theory no crimes would ever be solved. The fact its the same guys protesting as before does not dissuade the theory just reenforces it. Because It wasn't me who was wrong before.

"The lady doth protest to much" LOL

[Magna Canus]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 July 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Whats most probable is mm isn't broken and something else is to account for it. Could it be high elo? maybe but seen lots of high elo matches too. What i do know like most anyone who has played awhile is keyboard players do not change direction together in a timely fashion and I watched some extreme pivots in a few of these matches. Pugs take time to move as many are not concentrating on the chat window. Past that in two of the matches we had narc on targets and they quickly moved into ecm cover before missles flew. Yes it could be a fluke but only time will tell.

I do know how many times you told me the same things but the game changed to counter it against your adamant wishes. Im just happy solo que is in and the sky didn't fall like you told us it would.

Chiming in here on page 3 of 8 so far, so this might have already been covered.

On the NARC subject: NARC has recently become something people take a lot more seriously than before. The most commonly used mechs for NARCing are Ravens, followed by any other light with a missile hard point, preferably with ECM. New like this gets around, experiences are made, and those players with the power of logical combination keep their eyes open for potential NARC-mechs and shoot with a high level of prejudice.

Add on top of that the new wonder module Radar Deprivation (I run it as a must on all of my mechs). If you have it on and dodge around the corner and those LRMs still hit you, guess what, you are probably NARCed.

People with the same level of logical combination will want to know how you counter this evil thing called NARC... hmmm, 1) Get under ECM cover, 2) Get under any kind of cover 3) Simply get out of range of the LRMs.

So if you give the "average" player the benefit of the doubt and concede that they have powers of logical combination then this explains a lot.

Now, said player that can do that can also, after countless games, 1) recognize most "standard" tactics playing out 2) recognize when your team is executing those standard tactics 3) predict several "moves" on the field in advance just like you would in chess.

This is all a function of experience, so if you are fighting experienced players, this is what you can expect to encounter. When I drop solo this is simple basics, rudimentary tactics that come like a reflex.

Now if you are dropping in the mid ELO range like a lot of people (and that is a point that is way too fuzzy because new players should be starting at the bottom of the totem pole instead of in the middle) you can have a mix of new and experienced players as well as just "good" or "bad" players. Because of ELO averaging and the fact that you yourself have only an 8% influence on your own ELO (ELO is based on team performance...) you get a really crazy mix in the mid ELO range. Not so much in High ELO or Low ELO brackets because you have to be VERY consistent to land there.

What does that mean? You are going to have underhives in the mid range that have been carried a lot by better players. You are also going to have really good players that are near to but not quite high ELO that have been "dragged down" by bad players. The MM sorts by "ELO buckets" for that loose fit and when the dice are tossed you got stuck with more mid-ELO underhives than the enemy team and fewer good mid-level players you have a pretty good chance of a roll. Even then the stars can allign and a great leader arises to lead the underhive cats to victory against the odds.

That is the luck of the draw and your lot in life when you play with 11 random guys every game. Just like any RNG there are streaks of low numbers that seem impossible, but still get rolled. I game on both sides of the fence and this is how I see it, objectively and honstely.

[Thorn Hallis]

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 July 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Lets ignore the fact its entirely possible to link up on teamspeak and drop together into solo and chances are good you will end up on the same team. Honestly a trusted group should try it and record the results. Only way to know for sure.

Tried it, never worked out.

[Kitane]

Whenever there is talk about "stomps", I can't help but remember a certain BT book. It describes the game perfectly.

Quote

How long would their twelve 'Mechs last against sixteen? There was no way to answer that question. In fact, the question was largely meaningless, for numbers alone could not give a true picture of the relative power of two opposing forces.

A more accurate image could be drawn by comparing the total weights of two opposing forces. Grayson had long since used his Marauder's computer to tally the figures for the 'Mechs he saw arrayed against them. The figure he'd come up with was 795 tons. The total weight of his own force was a respectable 649 tons, which gave Langsdorf only a narrow 16-to-13 lead.

Even comparing BattleMech weights did not always indicate which side had the best chance to win. There was a concept, known as "CLG" among MechWarriors. The letters stood for "Combat Loss Groupings," and it referred to the fact that in 'Mech combat, 'Mechs of a single unit often received critical levels of damage at about the same time. For example, a twelve-Mech company might get into a firelight and battle for an eternity, in combat terms—as much as three or four minutes—and while they would take hits, none would appear seriously damaged.

Then, several more minutes into the battle, a 'Mech would be knocked out of action. Almost immediately, another would be lost, then one or two more. Within the space of thirty seconds, half the combat strength of the company would be gone. This was because it took a set space of time for even light 'Mechs to accumulate enough damage to threaten them, and it was likely that several 'Mechs in the unit would be brought to the same point in about the same time. Further, once some 'Mechs had been lost to one side, the enemy could concentrate more weapons on fewer targets, accelerating the rate of damage among the survivors. Grayson had heard one story of a company entering combat, fighting valiantly for five minutes without losses, then falling apart within thirty seconds. There had been, he'd heard, only three surviving 'Mechs in that company.

Mech Warrior commanders knew about CLG and tried to keep close tabs on the damage sustained by their people's machines. A good commander was one who realized when a particular battle became hopeless and withdrew before CLG began taking its toll.

[AlmightyAeng]

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 July 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Have to laugh. Same guys said the same things about synch drops last year till it was proven by themselves here on the forum.

So they use the same keywords as before instead of countering any argument. LOL

Lets ignore the fact its entirely possible to link up on teamspeak and drop together into solo and chances are good you will end up on the same team. Honestly a trusted group should try it and record the results. Only way to know for sure.

Now I am just playing detective. Without a theory no crimes would ever be solved. The fact its the same guys protesting as before does not dissuade the theory just reenforces it. Because It wasn't me who was wrong before.

"The lady doth protest to much" LOL

Wow...you're a moron.

[Randalf Yorgen]

very true, now a mass solo drop event like Marik Monday Madness could open the door to more than 4 people who know each other and who could switch channels in TS during the count down to start. As most of house Marik knows each other and has played at least a few matches with each other they will have an advantage of being familiar with each others play style and who are the strong leaders in the add-hawk group. However, a grouping like this is for only one drop and them it's a whole new ball game for the next drop. ELO will play a big factor and MMM has been small and sporadic over the last few months, more so since the return of real team drops. I have to stop here as I have run out of neutrality and would only really let people know how I feel from this point forward in this post.

[Bobzilla]

Stomps are always going to happen, has more to do with luck than anything else i'll wager. One mech runs into another, both equally skilled, one will win and immediatly it's 11-12, and the damaged player will move to a support role to create 2v1 situations (stops being so aggresive because they are damaged), so on and so forth. Simple example, but you get the idea.

What is more likely to happen is, a good player on one team will quickly neturalize a few bad players on the other team. Doesn't even have to be good vs bad, just more experience to capitalize on mistakes of less experinced players (or again, more likely right place right time, luck). This can go both ways, but whoever does it first gains a great advantage and leads to results that appear as if there is an imbalance. This is also why the team that 'pushes' and is aggresive seems to have a far greater chance of success, first strike, along with dictating the flow of batttle.

[Karamarka]

Wolfways, on 11 July 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

It's funny how some people think that a steamroll means there was a premade in a team.

Here are some "facts" (that may or may not be 100% true).

Once a team loses a couple of players there is a higher chance of a steamroll.
The more players lost, the higher the chance of a steamroll.
Stopping a steamroll requires using good tactics.
Most MWO players can't even spell tactics.

Naw, it's not premade in my mind.

It's the fact that the Elo matchmaker thinks that those 6 cadets are "average" because when they start they have average Elo instead of a low Elo, so they are put in games to lower the Elo variance but in reality they are actually new players NOT average players.

[Charons Little Helper]

Karamarka, on 11 July 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

Naw, it's not premade in my mind.

It's the fact that the Elo matchmaker thinks that those 6 cadets are "average" because when they start they have average Elo instead of a low Elo, so they are put in games to lower the Elo variance but in reality they are actually new players NOT average players.

Of note

1. Cadets are given an Elo nerf during their first 25 games - enough to put them below average (1100 vs the 1300 average - don't quote me) which drops off along with their cadet bonus.

2. Starting new players near average is a necessary evil of the Elo system. The math doesn't work without doing it that way. (Inherenty - whatever score new players start out will eventually become the new average, as for every point one player gains, another player loses.)

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 11 July 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Sandpit]

As long as you have people unwilling to accept they just got beat by a better team you'll have threads like this.

The thread serves no purpose at this point. The solo queue is not broken. There, the op's question is answered.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who's myriad of excuses and "theories" included claiming I got special treatment on the forums because I was a white knight. Yes really. No joke.

[Roland]

Mudhut is a garbage player who has been complaining about losing for months now.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 11 July 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Mudhut is a garbage player who has been complaining about losing for months now.

not going to comment on his skills but just to fix your statement months years

[Mechteric]

12v12 also tends to accentuate quicker losses, because when there's more potential for lots of people shooting you at the same time your armor melts away that much quicker.

[MischiefSC]

Kitane, on 11 July 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Whenever there is talk about "stomps", I can't help but remember a certain BT book. It describes the game perfectly.

That you found this quote....

This needs stickied.

[Magna Canus]

Did some solo play today and I have to say... gawd... where do they get these guys? AI would be a great improovment. Talk about clubbing ******** baby seals. No sync drops, no group, just solo on any game mode. It was a barrel of laughs.