13 replies to this topic

[Solahma]

I remember back in June, the original post regarding Targeting Computers had a note:

Quote

NOTE: ...projectile weapons include all Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and non-LBX Autocannons

However, I did not see this mentioned in the recent patch notes when Targeting Computers were actually implemented.

I did a quick forum search and didn't find a direct answer to this.

Do they clarify, in-game, that Targeting Computers do not effect cLBX weapons?

Can someone please confirm this, I have been on vacation and haven't had a chance to properly check.

I'd love to know so I can theory craft today.

Thanks ahead of time!

Edited by Solahma, 07 July 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Corbenik]

It says on the Targeting Computer that it does not affect LBX weapons. on the popup information description

[Willard Phule]

I can absolutely confirm that the TC does nothing to the LBX.

HOWEVER....and keep in mind I've really been messing around with the Targeting Computers...that doesn't preclude using one if you have an LBX. The LBX is really good at scouring off armor. If you follow it up with lasers and a Targeting Computer, you're going to see components flying EVERYWHERE.

I, personally, use a 2xCERLL, 4xCERML build with a TC 4. It's shocking how it increases your critical chance. At one point, I gently caressed the legs of an ECM Raven as it sped past....and they both blew off. He must've had ammo or something in them. Go figure.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Maybe the TC should affect LBX autocannons.....maybe that can be the solution or a kinda middle ground between slug ammo and spread ammo on LBX, while making the Targeting computer more viable and wanted.

Have each lvl of TC tighten up the pellet spread, where the highest TC would make the shots near PP. Same could go for SRMs....

[Willard Phule]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 July 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Maybe the TC should affect LBX autocannons.....maybe that can be the solution or a kinda middle ground between slug ammo and spread ammo on LBX, while making the Targeting computer more viable and wanted.

Have each lvl of TC tighten up the pellet spread, where the highest TC would make the shots near PP. Same could go for SRMs....

Nah. The LBX, by it's very nature, already has an increased critical chance. Thats why, in BT, the LBX cannot use the TC when firing cluster munitions. When firing solid slugs, it can...although, I'm pretty sure that even if PGI can figure out how to get switchable ammo into the game, there's no way in hell they'll be able to get the TC set up to recognize the difference.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Willard Phule, on 08 July 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Nah. The LBX, by it's very nature, already has an increased critical chance. Thats why, in BT, the LBX cannot use the TC when firing cluster munitions. When firing solid slugs, it can...although, I'm pretty sure that even if PGI can figure out how to get switchable ammo into the game, there's no way in hell they'll be able to get the TC set up to recognize the difference.

Thats why they should just let the TC act as a sort of LBX Artemis...its not like this game has stuck that closely to TT or lore...soooo..

[General Taskeen]

from Battle Tech (sarna)

Quote

Game Notes

....In addition, an LB-X autocannon only receives the benefits if it is firing solid rounds instead of cluster ammunition.

[OneEyed Jack]

Willard Phule, on 08 July 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Nah. The LBX, by it's very nature, already has an increased critical chance. Thats why, in BT, the LBX cannot use the TC when firing cluster munitions.

Um, no?

Cluster rounds in TT don't have an inherent bonus to crit. They're just moer likely to hit a section with no armor, or the head, or a CT possible crit, due to more hit location rolls. They can't use TC because they're not "direct fire" enough with the spread. Nothing to do with crit chance.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't see a problem with a Targeting computer assisting LB-X Slugs. Its the Buck shells that I would have problems with.

[Willard Phule]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 July 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Thats why they should just let the TC act as a sort of LBX Artemis...its not like this game has stuck that closely to TT or lore...soooo..

OneEyed Jack, on 08 July 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Um, no?

Cluster rounds in TT don't have an inherent bonus to crit. They're just moer likely to hit a section with no armor, or the head, or a CT possible crit, due to more hit location rolls. They can't use TC because they're not "direct fire" enough with the spread. Nothing to do with crit chance.

Keep in mind that the TC here is NOT the TC in Battletech. In Battletech, it gives you a bonus to hit and allows you to target a specific location, neither of which apply here. The biggest benefit of the TC in MW:O is the increased critical chance.

What I meant by "the nature" of the LBX is similar to what you see on the JM6-DD builds with six MGs. At short/medium range, the cluster pretty much hits the same location, more or less, and if the armor is already gone...it goes internal. Every "pellet" has a chance of causing a critical. As opposed to, say, a medium laser....if it goes internal, it has one chance of causing a critical.

That means that an IS LBX10 has ten chances at a critical if the armor is already gone. If you're group firing two of them, then it's twenty chances at a critical....depending on convergence and HSR. That's why it's one of the best IS weapons to use against Clan mechs.

And I'm here to tell you right now that once you start messing around with the TC4 and above, it DOES increase your critical chances significantly. I ran a build with my TW using 4 ERMLs and 2 CLBX5s at one point. The LBX5s were really good for sandblasting the armor off and once the CERMLs went internal, they pretty much went critical and blew components everywhere. And that's where the money is, right there.

Edited by Willard Phule, 08 July 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Willard Phule, on 08 July 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

What I meant by "the nature" of the LBX is similar to what you see on the JM6-DD builds with six MGs. At short/medium range, the cluster pretty much hits the same location, more or less, and if the armor is already gone...it goes internal. Every "pellet" has a chance of causing a critical. As opposed to, say, a medium laser....if it goes internal, it has one chance of causing a critical.

Every pellet does have a chance to crit, but each crit they do is relatively small. They had to receive artificially boosted crit chance, artificially boosted crit damage (both of which MGs also recieved to make them playable), and the general bonus internal damage from crit damage to even be very good for it. Conversely a IS AC10 shell only gets a single crit chance, but will completely destroy any component it gets a crit on (assuming the component can be destroyed), aside from an AC20. Since each crit chance can potentially result in 3 crits, it has the capacity to completely destroy 3 separate components in a single hit.
This is not BT, and a crit is not always a destroyed component.

Also, you are wrong about the lasers. Lasers in MWO may fire a single beam graphically, but in the code it's multiple shots, or ticks, spread out over the duration of the beam, each doing a portion of the total damage. Each of those ticks has a completely separate chance to crit, the damage of any crits being based on the damage of the tick, not the total damage of the beam.

But my response was to your claim that "... LBX [has] increased critical chance. That's why, in BT, the LBX cannot use the TC when firing cluster munitions." You specifically state that increased crit chance was the reason for the non-interaction of cluster rounds and TCs in TT. That claim is wrong, regardless of whether any equipment in MWO conforms to TT, LBX, TC, or any other.

[Khobai]

No. CLBX autocannons are already much stronger than the CUACs. Because they do frontloaded damage instead of pansy damage over time. The last thing they need is a buff. Hell you could even argue they need to be nerfed... certainly the LB5X needs ghost heat.

"But LBXs spread out"

The 10s and 20s have awful spread to be sure. But after the recent patch, the 5s have a nice tight spread. A Daishi with x4 LB5Xs is one of the most terrifying Daishi builds there is. Especially if its got a pair of CERPPCs backing it up.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2014 - 03:00 AM.

[Bobzilla]

I think the TC should cap the max spread on LBXs or make a consistant spread (same circular pattern every shot). Their max ranges are really too long for their random spread.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Willard Phule, on 08 July 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Keep in mind that the TC here is NOT the TC in Battletech. In Battletech, it gives you a bonus to hit and allows you to target a specific location, neither of which apply here. The biggest benefit of the TC in MW:O is the increased critical chance.

What I meant by "the nature" of the LBX is similar to what you see on the JM6-DD builds with six MGs. At short/medium range, the cluster pretty much hits the same location, more or less, and if the armor is already gone...it goes internal. Every "pellet" has a chance of causing a critical. As opposed to, say, a medium laser....if it goes internal, it has one chance of causing a critical.

That means that an IS LBX10 has ten chances at a critical if the armor is already gone. If you're group firing two of them, then it's twenty chances at a critical....depending on convergence and HSR. That's why it's one of the best IS weapons to use against Clan mechs.

And I'm here to tell you right now that once you start messing around with the TC4 and above, it DOES increase your critical chances significantly. I ran a build with my TW using 4 ERMLs and 2 CLBX5s at one point. The LBX5s were really good for sandblasting the armor off and once the CERMLs went internal, they pretty much went critical and blew components everywhere. And that's where the money is, right there.

Well then, just as PGI has cherry picked what will apply to what weapons, they can do the same to the LBX on a TC.

Make it apply the TC only to the LBX's spread, it ignores all the other features when applied to the LBX. Kinda like how the Range increase doesnt apply to the PPCs..