110 replies to this topic

[Profiteer]

In War Thunder: ground forces, only light and medium tanks can use artillery. Medium tanks are the most common tank on the battlefield... just saying.

Edited by Profiteer, 07 July 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[Pjwned]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

So far the the argument is "you must suck"

I find that....insufficient. My last match I scored 533 damage in the nova, it's not a matter of ability. I know how to play a medium, I came in top 50 the last two medium v/s the world.

Lets review my actual arguments:

Playing a light/medium means you will have no margin for error. One lapse and you're down.

The current heavy/assault clan mechs can remove your limbs at will.

If you're a medium/light pilot with any kind of elo, you're going to have to work twice as hard to help your team.

All these things are why on any give night, light/medium mechs don't break 20% of total mechs, and why should they?

SO PLEASE, answer these points, if you say LTP Noob, I'll take that as "I'm not reading any of this, I'm just randomly typing as the random neural firings in my head dictate, please disregard any actual words that make it off my keyboard."

The higher speed potential (and lower profile in lights and a few mediums) gives you more opportunities to correct your mistake(s) so you really have to screw up pretty bad to get hit really hard by the enemy, meanwhile if you overextend in a bigger heavy or assault mech then you're likely completely screwed.

There are reasons to take mechs of each weight class including lights & mediums, and personally I can't stand playing bigger, slower mechs because it doesn't really fit my play style much and I hate not being able to go off a little ways on my own to do something without getting annihilated for it like I would in a bigger mech.

[Sug]

Med/Lights need separate XP class trees or quirks to fix the problems of individual mechs. i.e. give the Hunchbacks hunch some innate damage reduction like they did to Catapult/Centurion missile bay doors.

Or they could change the XP trees so each class gets bonuses to it's particular role. An example would be to give Speed Tweak and the movement modifiers only to lights and meds and give heavies/assaults a bonus to armor.

[Navy Sixes]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

the argument "I can do well in this mech" is not a counter argument.

But by that reasoning, "I can't do well in this mech" is not an argument at all.

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

taking any medium right now is like playing on hard mode.

The thankless art of medium-mech warfare has always been hard mode. Some people are up for the challenge; some people are not. Getting into matches faster with a medium just sweetens the pot for those few crazy ******** who wouldn't have it any other way.

[Sandpit]

I'm not saying you "suck" OP but if you're facing off against assaults in a medium you definitely might want to rethink your tactics

[Angel of Annihilation]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Again, the argument "I can do well in this mech" is not a counter argument. I've had a 4 kill match in my Nova. But only because I tried harder against inferior competition. Good pilots can make any mech work, but taking any medium right now is like playing on hard mode.

However sometimes this statement is just the plain and simple truth.

The guy you responded to said he had a 3.4 K/D ratio which means he isn't just pulling a 4 kill match in his Nova once or twice, rather he is pulling them regularly.

Then of course just because you can't do the same thing, you claim his counter argument isn't valid.

So in the end what your saying is basically despite the fact their experiences and evidence points out your statement might be incorrect, they must obviously be wrong because your opinion on the subject is all that matters?

[Sahoj]

I'm terrible at the game via a long hiatus.

I feel that since they added the new matchmaker my medium mechs are having a field day.

These days I know that when I drop -
I've equal/better armor and equal/better firepower than half the enemy mechs on the map.

I'm probably faster/more agile than the other half. I'm also a very low priority target if I'm assisting a larger ally.

Combine that with standard positioning rules and a little torso twisting - even a pilot with bad aim like me can do well.

Prior - the amount of heavy and assault mechs per team may have made playing in a medium chassis overwhelming.

Cheers,
Sahoj

Edited by Sahoj, 07 July 2014 - 06:54 PM.

[BoomDog]

I stopped playing my Cent, but I found for me, my best roll was fire support. Hang with the heavies and unload, you'll probably be the last one targeted. I tended to score ok, but only because they tended to kill me last, lol.

Scaling the Mediums would help. My Cent is taller, or as tall, as most heavies. A speed boost would help too. Running from a Timberwolf ain't easy with most mediums right now.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

Trying reallllllly hard to not respond to the LTP posts, because that is mostly what I'm hearing. Should I sit here and list my bonafides? Twice in my Yen Lo I've take out the last three mechs on a team, and both times that included an assault. I've broken 900 damage more times than I can count in a Cent D. Same in a Griffin 3M and any of the Shadowhawks. I keep a 1.5 to 2.7 in all the mediums I pilot (minus the clan ones I haven't leveled). I've always felt medium mechs are the best 1v1 mechs.

So some one tell me why right now there are 18% medium mechs online? Is it because they are so viable and I'm alone in my opinion? Because the stats say otherwise. 40% Heavy, 30% Assault.

[Sandpit]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Trying reallllllly hard to not respond to the LTP posts, because that is mostly what I'm hearing. Should I sit here and list my bonafides? Twice in my Yen Lo I've take out the last three mechs on a team, and both times that included an assault. I've broken 900 damage more times than I can count in a Cent D. Same in a Griffin 3M and any of the Shadowhawks. I keep a 1.5 to 2.7 in all the mediums I pilot (minus the clan ones I haven't leveled). I've always felt medium mechs are the best 1v1 mechs.

So some one tell me why right now there are 18% medium mechs online? Is it because they are so viable and I'm alone in my opinion? Because the stats say otherwise. 40% Heavy, 30% Assault.

no, they're responding to YOUR post where you talked about assaults killing your medium...

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

I'm beginning to feel trolled, am I on camera?

[Sandpit]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm trying to level my medium clan mechs, and it's hard when a Direwolf can take your leg to red/off in one shot.

no, you're not being trolled. You asked a question, I'm explaining to you why you're getting the responses that your'e getting. I don't see how that's trolling anyone.

[Pjwned]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Trying reallllllly hard to not respond to the LTP posts, because that is mostly what I'm hearing. Should I sit here and list my bonafides? Twice in my Yen Lo I've take out the last three mechs on a team, and both times that included an assault. I've broken 900 damage more times than I can count in a Cent D. Same in a Griffin 3M and any of the Shadowhawks. I keep a 1.5 to 2.7 in all the mediums I pilot (minus the clan ones I haven't leveled). I've always felt medium mechs are the best 1v1 mechs.

So some one tell me why right now there are 18% medium mechs online? Is it because they are so viable and I'm alone in my opinion? Because the stats say otherwise. 40% Heavy, 30% Assault.

I don't see what your problem is then if you can manage to get good results, and just because most people like to play bigger mechs doesn't necessarily mean the smaller ones aren't viable, particularly because (again) they can go much faster which counts for a lot.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

The point I keep repeating is that medium/lights are under represented, and you keep avoid that for the LTP argument, which is a lazy argument.

[Sandpit]

You specifically used assault vs your mediums as the ONLY example of what you're talking about. You gave NO other information at all. Are people supposed to ascertain the rest of what you posted after?

Do mediums and lights need something to help make them more popular?
sure
there's also already 5-6 threads with a lot of constructive ideas going on discussing exactly this. You also just complained about assaults killing your mediums while offering nothing in the form of ideas, suggestions, etc. to improve an area in the game you're unhappy with.

So what was the purpose of your original post? It couldn't be to improve anythign because you offered zero examples, no information outside of "this sucks, assaults kill my mediums", and noting in the way of ideas to improve that but it's somehow everyone else's fault...?

This isn't personal, I"m just pointing out and explaining why you got the responses you did since you asked.

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

The point I keep repeating is that medium/lights are under represented, and you keep avoid that for the LTP argument, which is a lazy argument.

riiiight
see my above post then get back to me about "arguing". That explains a lot I suppose though? You cam looking for an argument, not constructive ideas. You got an argument. See the difference?

[Pjwned]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

The point I keep repeating is that medium/lights are under represented, and you keep avoid that for the LTP argument, which is a lazy argument.

Funny because now it seems like you're just avoiding every argument by saying "I KNOW HOW TO PLAY QUIT SAYING THAT!!!!" when there's multiple posts now that are not simply just "learn to play," although it should be obvious that it helps to know how to play.

[Wintersdark]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

The point I keep repeating is that medium/lights are under represented, and you keep avoid that for the LTP argument, which is a lazy argument.

They are underrepresented, but I'd argue that your reasoning is flawed. Lights and particularly Mediums have always been underrepresented, even before there were many options in the heavy/assault field.

People are presenting what you feel are poor arguments because your initial post was deeply flawed, too. Statements like:

Quote

As long as mediums are so easily hit, and clan mechs can put 4-5 ac's and 1-2 PPC at a time on you, bringing a medium mech will just lower your score.

One clan mech can do that. One. And those AC's will spread damage, so they're not tearing off a leg unless the Medium player allows it or the Clan mech pilot is a really spectacular shot.

I get that people have issues with Dire Wolf armaments, but that's one mech, not "Clan Mechs". Other clan mechs have the same PPFLD threat IS mechs do (Timberwolf, though faster and sturdier than most, or Warhawk) or less.


No, the real reason Mediums are underrepresented is that Mediums are basically just Heavies with less armor and less weapons. Somewhat faster, but it's long been my experience that most players get to a point where their mech is "fast enough", then they want MORE GUNS.

Lights are underrepresented because Lights are hard to play well. Probably the hardest class, possibly alongside slow non-jumping assaults like the Atlas.

[Daneel Hazen]

I want a fast clan mech!

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

Sandpit, if you don't see your posts as inflammatory then I can only assume you lack introspection. I'm discussing in good faith, as you will notice I have not "gone after" anyone else "skill" since I don't know any of you, and this is the internet.

If you read the WHOLE first post, I was asking what people thought might improve lights/mediums, not complaining about the one time with a direwolf. Heck, I've had them remove a side torso in an Awesome as well, you just have fight them different. So try to be civil, please.

[Sahoj]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm open to suggestion, what could they do to make those classes competitive again?

You probably could have just made this your original post to get helpful replies instead of the standard forum troll nitpicking.

Personally, I'm not worried about joining the competitive scene in any weight class.

I feel like medium mechs are built particularly well and favorably balanced via their insane agility/torso twist/twist speed and ability to go high speeds with very small standard engines (leaving a ton of room for weapons). For arguments purpose: I consider 80-90kph fast. (A speed that Heavy mechs will typically have to use an XL engine to achieve)

My Grid Iron (Or HBK-4G/same build) goes 80kph (Speed Tweaked) with a STD225 and can pretty much fire a high-mounted AC20 on something directly behind it very quickly.