125 replies to this topic

[LastPaladin]

YueFei, on 07 July 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

The problem with JJs is that it doesn't adhere to physics.

Regardless of how many JJs you put, the moment you tap spacebar, you instantaneously achieve a high ascent speed.

JJs need to accelerate you upward starting from an ascent speed of 0.

Seems sensible, from a real world perspective, but jjs need to give you an advantage in mobility, not a disadvantage, which it seems to me would result from those kinds of changes. After all, I am already losing forward speed the longer I hold my jjs, now if I start at zero upward speed, I am a sitting duck.

[Solahma]

So a highlander should never waste tonnage on Jump Jets anymore.... gotchya! Brawler status it is then.

[Kjudoon]

So mechs legging themselves is the new meta?

JJs are now just for climbing terrain and softening falls off terrain... nothing more.

I guess all those 55 ton JJs mediums are now just superfluous. I see a rise to Kintaros at this rate.

Edited by Kjudoon, 09 July 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

The truth is they have had JJs screwed up for a long time and in typical PGI fashion they are screwing them up even more.

1 JJ should never get any mech off the ground, let alone actually lift it 10+ meters. 3 should be the minimum always, if you want to receive any tangible benefit. Adding 4,5,6 should be rewarded however if for nothing else, because of the weight investment. Also JJs should be vectorable. You SHOULD be able to Jump Forward from a standstill, jump up and to right or left. Jump sideways, jump backward from a stand still, chose between jumping high or jumping long, etc. The cost to do this should be heat. Go full burn with JJs and your going to crank you heat up by 25-30%

Want to fix poptarting, well here is your solution.

1 - Require 3 JJ minimum to actually jump.
2 - Give alot of bonus height, accelleration and distance if you mount more than 3 JJ.
3 - Make JJs actually vector so there is a good reason to take more JJs for the extreme mobility.
4 - Add large amounts of heat to JJ usage. The more JJ used, the more heat generated. Mounting 5-6 JJ might spike heat to 30-40% from rest.
5 - Add ghost heat to using both JJs and weapons at the same time.
6 - Make it so when a mech uses both JJs and High Heat weapons, like dual PPCs, at the same time, It is likely to shut down.
7 - Make it so if a mech shuts down in flight it "locks" rigid and cannot cushion its fall with it legs causing large amount of damage in a fall.
8 - Get rid or reduce fall damage for mechs landing normally because on these mechs, the functional legs "Can" cushion the fall.

Boom Poptarting is done while JJs as a mobility tool get a significant buff, all at the expense of added weight and height. Want extreme mobility...fine, but your going to have mange alot more heat which is going to reduce your ability to both Jump and immediately alpha your weapons. Basically you can jump sideways from a flat footed lauch over the ridge and engage an enemy with only 2 MLs or you can walk around the ridge and engage with Dual PPCs and the 2 ML plus maybe a SRM or two.

With this sort of system poptarting disappears as a tactic and now JJs become just as much a liability as a advantage, to the point where it might make sense not to mount JJs even if you can. However, on the other hand, the fact you can now utilize some extremely complex jump and mobility tactics with JJs, might very well be worth having to cooldown a bit after each jump before firing or limit the amount of firepower you utilize immediately after jumping. Now the game becomes very diverse and very tactical rather than semi one dimensional like it is now.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 09 July 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Darlith]

Viktor Drake, on 09 July 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

The truth is they have had JJs screwed up for a long time and in typical PGI fashion they are screwing them up even more.

1 JJ should never get any mech off the ground, let alone actually lift it 10+ meters. 3 should be the minimum always, if you want to receive any tangible benefit. Adding 4,5,6 should be rewarded however if for nothing else, because of the weight investment. Also JJs should be vectorable. You SHOULD be able to Jump Forward from a standstill, jump up and to right or left. Jump sideways, jump backward from a stand still, chose between jumping high or jumping long, etc. The cost to do this should be heat. Go full burn with JJs and your going to crank you heat up by 25-30%

Want to fix poptarting, well here is your solution.

1 - Require 3 JJ minimum to actually jump.
2 - Give alot of bonus height, accelleration and distance if you mount more than 3 JJ.
3 - Make JJs actually vector so there is a good reason to take more JJs for the extreme mobility.
4 - Add large amounts of heat to JJ usage. The more JJ used, the more heat generated. Mounting 5-6 JJ might spike heat to 30-40% from rest.
5 - Add ghost heat to using both JJs and weapons at the same time.
6 - Make it so when a mech uses both JJs and High Heat weapons, like dual PPCs, at the same time, It is likely to shut down.
7 - Make it so if a mech shuts down in flight it "locks" rigid and cannot cushion its fall with it legs causing large amount of damage in a fall.
8 - Get rid or reduce fall damage for mechs landing normally because on these mechs, the functional legs "Can" cushion the fall.

Boom Poptarting is done while JJs as a mobility tool get a significant buff, all at the expense of added weight and height. Want extreme mobility...fine, but your going to have mange alot more heat which is going to reduce your ability to both Jump and immediately alpha your weapons. Basically you can jump sideways from a flat footed lauch over the ridge and engage an enemy with only 2 MLs or you can walk around the ridge and engage with Dual PPCs and the 2 ML plus maybe a SRM or two.

With this sort of system poptarting disappears as a tactic and now JJs become just as much a liability as a advantage, to the point where it might make sense not to mount JJs even if you can. However, on the other hand, the fact you can now utilize some extremely complex jump and mobility tactics with JJs, might very well be worth having to cooldown a bit after each jump before firing or limit the amount of firepower you utilize immediately after jumping. Now the game becomes very diverse and very tactical rather than semi one dimensional like it is now.

I'd like to point out there there are mechs in the game that mount maximums of less than three JJs. Setting the limit to a specific arbitrary number is problematic with such a wide range of JJ maximums from 2 to 7. A better solution then would be to say that maximum thrust is achieved at maximum jump jets (duh) and scales down from there until a mimimum is hit after which thrust isn't really achieved (Oh look I hopped a 3 foot boulder).

Examples : Jester only mounts two, two will get him airborne, one will give some thrust but not maximum flight. Griffins can mount 7, 7 flies high, 4 jumps around decent, two barely gets you off the ground. Adjust numbers as needed to balance mechs that give up more obviously.

[Karamarka]

Wow that guy is crazy, he wants to add 7 more nerfs.

I bet he doesn't even see poptarting. In 100's of games i hardly EVER see jump jet capable poptarts, most games are just people peeking over the hill and shooting and than walking backwards.

You'd think this guy fights them every game (very, very doubtful, even if he was top Elo which is just lulz)

All in all i'm very worried for these changes for some mechs, i don't really care for Assaults and JJ but some others I'm curious. Specifically Nova and Summoner with fixed JJ, Kitfox with low amounts and also TBR (albeit very minor)

Edited by Karamarka, 12 July 2014 - 10:47 AM.