27 replies to this topic

[Turist0AT]

I removed it from mechs default loadouts and replaced it with DHS. Now starting to make my own clan builds i wonder if i should bother with it.

My own very very limited experience with TC(Target Computer) is that it doesnt do ANYTHING. Does it even work?

I run mostly energy and balistic and maybe short range missiles.




Thank you for participating in this thread and enjoy the picture.

Edited by Turist0AT, 11 July 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[Demoncard]

Turist0AT, on 11 July 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

enjoy the picture.

*zzzip*

Also, if you don't need more ammo, and if you can live without an extra heatsink, throw on a targeting computer. If you can live without two heatsinks, throw on a mark II. If you can live without three, a III. You'll almost definitely want the I and II to start off with. The advantages of a mark I will in most circumstances outweigh the advantages of an additional heatsink.

The command console for IS mechs is awful and shouldn't be fit on anything (although I think PGI are doing something to it. If they aren't, I hope they do.); the clan targeting computers are good and should be considered for most fits.

Edited by Demoncard, 11 July 2014 - 02:49 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

They have some cool benefits but I really wouldn't consider anything past the mark I or mark II.

[EvilCow]

May be it is effective but I don't like the implementation, it is just a stats modifier and adds nothing to the gameplay.

[Turist0AT]

so mkVII is a waste a slots and tonnage?

Edited by Turist0AT, 11 July 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Rouken, on 11 July 2014 - 02:46 AM, said:

They have some cool benefits but I really wouldn't consider anything past the mark I or mark II.

I concur, mark I or II. I am known to use mark Iv on my T-Wolf from Time to time.

[Karamarka]

EvilCow, on 11 July 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

May be it is effective but I don't like the implementation, it is just a stats modifier and adds nothing to the gameplay.

Agreed,

also people are WAY overstating the effectiveness of the computer

2.25% More Sensor range? Who cares.
4% More zoom? WTF who cares.
25% Target info speed? meh, 25% of 1 second is 0.25 seconds.
4% More beam range? 5 Meters even on the Large Lasers!? Silly
Sometimes you don't even have projectiles for Projectile Speed
7% crit chance? Can't really work out if good or not yet.

What 1 Ton can get you otherwise;

You don't run out of ammo sooner so you can actually shoot.
You get double AMS ammo.
You get an extra heat sink. (More Sustained Damage instead of Fluke Damage)
You get armor if you already were thin.
You get a probe which is almost equal, just in different areas.

Edited by Karamarka, 11 July 2014 - 03:38 AM.

[Demoncard]

Turist0AT, on 11 July 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

so mkVII is a waste a slots and tonnage?

I haven't an assault mech to try it on, but I'd assume so. A mark I or II with a bunch of heatsinks and more weapons would be more efficient.

Karamarka, on 11 July 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

how bout 1

For non-lbx autocannons, even the mark I gives you a noticeable buff. Autocannon crits are punchy, and with how easy it is to have your damage spread across multiple components, if even one or two of those rounds crits an exposed component, it's going to take out something. For beam weapons, which have their crits calculated per tic of damage, it's just as viable.

A ton of armour is only useful if you're not already capped on armour in the places that need it. A ton of ammo is only useful if you find that you run dry often, but those're problems with your fit and possibly piloting, and not with the targeting computers.

Don't even try to justify fitting a BAP.

Edited by Demoncard, 11 July 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[Karamarka]

Demoncard, on 11 July 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

I haven't an assault mech to try it on, but I'd assume so. A mark I or II with a bunch of heatsinks and more weapons would be more efficient.


For non-lbx autocannons, even the mark I gives you a noticeable buff. Autocannon crits are punchy, and with how easy it is to have your damage spread across multiple components, if even one or two of those rounds crits an exposed component, it's going to take out something. For beam weapons, which have their crits calculated per tic of damage, it's just as viable.

[size=4]A ton of armour is only useful if you're not already capped on armour in the places that need it. A ton of ammo is only useful if you find that you run dry often, but those're problems with your fit and possibly piloting, and not with the targeting computers.

True on the crit, that why i said it could possibly be good or not. Still undecided mathematically speaking, however for the ammo the same arguement can be made for dual heatsink - cause the more you add even if you are comfortable is more sustained DPS. Also on the ammo it depends on the map, if you run a SRM build with also lasers, you can NEVER be sure how many you will fire - different games produce different lengths.

Edited by Karamarka, 11 July 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Demoncard]

Karamarka, on 11 July 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

True on the crit, that why i said it could possibly be good or not. Still undecided mathematically speaking, however for the ammo the same arguement can be made for dual heatsink - cause the more you add even if you are comfortable is more sustained DPS.

If you can make someone's ammo cache blow up with ease, or take out their weapons with less effort, you don't need to shoot more or for longer (make your own joke there).

Is two heatsinks really better than 8.25% increased critical chance for projectiles (in this case, solid ACs and PPCs) and beams? That number alone should make it worth thinking about. Increased projectile speed, target info gathering, and beam long and optimal range increases just seal the deal.

The projectile speed buff lessens the chance of damage spread with clan ACs, and makes it easier for PPCs to connect with what you want them to. It's less likely that your target will just catch the projectile with his arm, rather than his side or centre torso.

Edited by Demoncard, 11 July 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[Karamarka]

Demoncard, on 11 July 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

If you can make someone's ammo cache blow up with ease, or take out their weapons with less effort, you don't need to shoot more or for longer (make your own joke there).

Is two heatsinks really better than 8.25% increased critical chance for projectiles (in this case, solid ACs and PPCs) and beams? That number alone should make it worth thinking about. Increased projectile speed, target info gathering, and beam long and optimal range increases just seal the deal.

The projectile speed buff lessens the chance of damage spread with clan ACs, and makes it easier for PPCs to connect with what you want them to. It's less likely that your target will just catch the projectile with his arm, rather than his side or centre torso.

I only run it if i have a lot of weapons.

[vash021]

Is this the same with command console? I cant find those computer mark thingys

I can equip a command console on my atlas but for 3 tons? never mind

Edited by vash021, 11 July 2014 - 04:08 AM.

[Bayamon]

The boon to target info gathering is cool. But i think the module is enough and you dont have to spend tonnage for it.

Senser range, zoom, beam length. Useless imo. If the numbers for Sensor Range and Beam length were much higher, it would be worth considering.

Projectile speed is usefull, but i doubt Mark I or II will make a noticable difference.
If you can greatly increase projectile speed, its definietly worth it.
I think it greatly depends on your mech and build, whether its worth it to cut down on ammo, heatsinks or possibly weapons. (say srm4s instead of srm6s)

How is the Crit chance factored in anyway ?

Usning simple numbers:
Would a "5% increase", increase the Crit Chance of "Projectile x", which has a Base crit Chance of 10%, to 15% or 10.5% ?

Edited by Bayamon, 11 July 2014 - 04:05 AM.

[Tyman4]

The targeting computers only work as part of a focused mechs design. IE, run a mark 6 or 7 comp on a warhawk with advanced zoom and clan bap, and give it 5 er large lasers. You can do more damage at longer ranges than almost any other mech. It won't be front loaded pin point but think of it as a more powerful longer ranged er large laser raven. Just sit back and rack up the damage eventually the enemy will come at you and your team.

The longer it takes for the enemy to figure it out the more damage they will have accumulated before their charge. And as area denial, that mech is a beast. Reach out and claim the entire forest colony map. either they go tunnel or they go long around water. Either way your team should be there to crush them.

Tyman

Edited by Tyman4, 11 July 2014 - 04:08 AM.

[Felbombling]

I think the Mk. I is the only real option, because all the numbers are front loaded... especially the target info gathering. Combine the Mk. I with an Active Probe and you have a nice package of benefits for two tons and two crits, if you can spare the tonnage.

[Redshift2k5]

Mark Is seem worth it, haven't done much with anything larger than that. Maybe next time I play I'll try a huge ass TC and 4 ERPPCs on a Daishi and see how well the projectile speed, target range, and crit work out for larger TCs.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Karamarka, on 11 July 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Agreed,

also people are WAY overstating the effectiveness of the computer

2.25% More Sensor range? Who cares.
4% More zoom? WTF who cares.
25% Target info speed? meh, 25% of 1 second is 0.25 seconds.
4% More beam range? 5 Meters even on the Large Lasers!? Silly
Sometimes you don't even have projectiles for Projectile Speed
7% crit chance? Can't really work out if good or not yet.

What 1 Ton can get you otherwise;

You don't run out of ammo sooner so you can actually shoot.
You get double AMS ammo.
You get an extra heat sink. (More Sustained Damage instead of Fluke Damage)
You get armor if you already were thin.
You get a probe which is almost equal, just in different areas.

This is pretty close to how I feel about the targeting computer. The only thing that has any potential is the Critical chance but the issue with critical is twofold.

First, is the increase a flat increase, meaning if I have a base 10% chance, does it increase to 17% with the TC or only to 10.7%.

Going form 10% chance to 17% might be significant enough to justify the weight of the TC, 0.7% definitely isn't.

The second is that critical is random and situational.

The situational part is that before it has any use what-so-ever, you have to have stripped the armor from a section to get a crit. The random part is that even if you strip that armor, you only have a relatively small chance to actually crit something. Additionally, even though you crit something, you have an even smaller chance to crit something well "critical". For example, taking out a heat sink isn't going to effect your enemy much.

Based on those two issues, you really do have to ask yourself if an extra heat sink or two just isn't a better investment, especially since that is a benefit that is always active and assists you throughout the fight. Same can be said of ammo if you find yourself running out or even a CAP (Clan Active Probe) to help with close range targeting.

[Thorn Hallis]

I tried all variants, mostly with C-PPCs and C-ER-Larges, but I didn't felt they made any difference.

Funny thing I noticed is that when the TC is destroyed they numbers in the HUD wont change.



@Bayamon: Btw, Greifswald is still Greifswald in english.

[Redshift2k5]

Thorn Hallis, on 11 July 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

I tried all variants, mostly with C-PPCs and C-ER-Larges, but I didn't felt they made any difference.

Funny thing I noticed is that when the TC is destroyed they numbers in the HUD wont change.



@Bayamon: Btw, Greifswald is still Greifswald in english.

It's entirely possible that, even when destroyed, the bonuses don't change. Worth investigating. Either way it's a bug worth reporting.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 11 July 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[EvilCow]

It is possible, they used the same stats modifier mechanism used for modules, and modules cannot be destroyed.

Don't waste torso space with it

Edited by EvilCow, 11 July 2014 - 05:28 AM.