219 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

So, with AC5s now doing same DPS as AC2 with greater range...I have now stripped all AC2 from every mech I had them on before.

At this point there is no reason to even carry these anymore. If they do same DPS as AC5, which is more burst damage, then they are pointless...

[Sable]

I didn't change any of my mechs with ac2s. They are actually more efficient now. The slight decrese in cooldown has had the effect of slowing heat generation noticeably. Not all weapons are made for maximum dps. AC2s (being the lowest caliber autocannon) are still good at what they have always been good at, supressing fire and making people panic from a constant ballistic barrage.

I hate having to say this every time a weapon change happens but dangit learn to adapt already. Not every change is a personal attack on you.

Edited by Sable, 18 April 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Let's see..... Two tons lighter, faster projectile and only 1 crit...... yup useless! How date they not be BETTER then ac5s anymore!

(See others can get silly and melodramatic too)

[Funky Bacon]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Let's see..... Two tons lighter, faster projectile and only 1 crit...... yup useless! How dare they not be BETTER then ac5s anymore!

(See others can get silly and melodramatic too)

I'm okay with them being worse, but they should have kept the range advantage over the AC/5's at least. Tho I guess getting hit by the equivalent of a pea shooter at 2km was too scary for some people so they had to nerf that. =/

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Let's see..... Two tons lighter, faster projectile and only 1 crit...... yup useless! How date they not be BETTER then ac5s anymore!

(See others can get silly and melodramatic too)

Crit slots are not an issue on ballistic mechs

Tonnage is only an issue for mechs that should not run autocannons

Projectile speed is negligible if you can hit things with AC20 you can certainly hit them with AC5

The weapon is useless now

(others can make valid points too)

[East Indy]

OP: No. Play more and worry less!

Funky Bacon, on 18 April 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'm okay with them being worse, but they should have kept the range advantage over the AC/5's at least.

As noted by others, there are good indications that range reductions will follow for the other calibers.

[Mcgral18]

I took my tri-2 2H out for the first time since the nerf. Over 1000 damage, 6 kills, 5 assists.

Shot around 700 rounds, but they are still doing fine. Tad slower, tad cooler. Of course AC5s would be a better choice, but those 6 tons and crit slots are hard for most mechs to find.

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 April 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Haakon Magnusson]

I'd much rather have them at lower damage and longer range, range was always my reason for using them. If they bring other ballistic ranges down, and then fine. I but why touch ranges piecemeal?

[Chemie]

6 tons (excluding ammo) for 3 dps or 3 ton for 3xML at 3 tons and about same dps ....hmmm.....

[Rizzelbizzeg]

OP, take it one step further and sell off all those AC2s. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then the nerf wasn't really all that bad was it?

[Trauglodyte]

Gyrok, on 18 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

So, with AC5s now doing same DPS as AC2 with greater range...I have now stripped all AC2 from every mech I had them on before.

At this point there is no reason to even carry these anymore. If they do same DPS as AC5, which is more burst damage, then they are pointless...

People that took the AC2s off of their mechs are the people that don't understand the hidden "vision" PGI has for ACs or why they made the change. So, I'll help you out here:

DPS ACs: AC2/UAC5 (meant for short bursts)
Ranged ACs: AC5/Gauss Rifle (meant for banging at long ranges)
Slug ACs: AC10/AC20 (meant for close in and short mid-range fights)
Scatter ACs: LB (meant to suck and waste tonnage for funzies)

You can use any AC, to a point, at range. The ACs still has the longest optimum range but is meant, and seen by many even before this change, as an extremely heavy machine gun. But, what PGI wants us to use it for, and what many people were doing for the past couple of years anyway, is to get within a decent range and let a few bursts rip and then recover the heat cost. What people WERE doing was using that same mentality but at 2000m where they were wasting ammo and doing jack for damage. Truth be told, this change was needed because, as a sniper weapon, why run the AC2 for the same range as the Gauss Rifle when the former paled in comparison?

[Roadkill]

I haven't stripped a single AC/2 off of any of my Mechs.

Because doing so would require that I had AC/2s mounted on a Mech.

The AC/2 has never been more than a toy. It can be fun to use for a while because, well, BECUZ NEEDZ MOAR DAKKAZ. But that's it.

Gyrok, on 18 April 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

The weapon is has always been useless now

FTFY

[Helsbane]

Trauglodyte, on 18 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

People that took the AC2s off of their mechs are the people that don't understand the hidden "vision" PGI has for ACs or why they made the change. So, I'll help you out here:

DPS ACs: AC2/UAC5 (meant for short bursts)
Ranged ACs: AC5/Gauss Rifle (meant for banging at long ranges)
Slug ACs: AC10/AC20 (meant for close in and short mid-range fights)
Scatter ACs: LB (meant to suck and waste tonnage for funzies)

You can use any AC, to a point, at range. The ACs still has the longest optimum range but is meant, and seen by many even before this change, as an extremely heavy machine gun. But, what PGI wants us to use it for, and what many people were doing for the past couple of years anyway, is to get within a decent range and let a few bursts rip and then recover the heat cost. What people WERE doing was using that same mentality but at 2000m where they were wasting ammo and doing jack for damage. Truth be told, this change was needed because, as a sniper weapon, why run the AC2 for the same range as the Gauss Rifle when the former paled in comparison?

Because I could get 8 points on target repeatedly in the same span of time it took for the Gauss to CD, then recharge. Plus, if you missed with the Gauss, you had to go through the whole cycle again and hope you managed to hit with the second shot. Meanwhile, I could stream AC2 rounds onto target, even with occasional misses, but score damage and open panels. It's about play style and weapon preference, and what weapons work well FOR YOU AS A PILOT.

As for the original question of the thread, my quad 2 Jager now sports triple 5s, and my 'Hawk 2H remained a triple 2 build. I ran it closer to the action anyway due to its superior mobility.

[AssaultPig]

AC2's tonnage and slot advantages disappear if you also consider the cooling necessary to run them. A single AC2 with two DHS still generates more heat than an AC5, requires better/more consistent aim, and does the same DPS. No decent pilot is going to be bothered by AC2's minimal impulse, and you still can't chain/macro fire them because of silly ghost heat implementation. They have only one minor advantage over an AC5 (velocity), and a lot of downsides.

To be fair this was also mostly true before. But at least pre-nerf you got higher DPS in exchange for the ridiculous heat, and could engage at longer range. Even those minor advantages are gone now.

[Gyrok]

AssaultPig, on 18 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

AC2's tonnage and slot advantages disappear if you also consider the cooling necessary to run them. A single AC2 with two DHS still generates more heat than an AC5, requires better/more consistent aim, and does the same DPS. No decent pilot is going to be bothered by AC2's minimal impulse, and you still can't chain/macro fire them because of silly ghost heat implementation. They have only one minor advantage over an AC5 (velocity), and a lot of downsides.

To be fair this was also mostly true before. But at least pre-nerf you got higher DPS in exchange for the ridiculous heat, and could engage at longer range. Even those minor advantages are gone now.

This

[Spades Kincaid]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Let's see..... Two tons lighter, faster projectile and only 1 crit...... yup useless! How date they not be BETTER then ac5s anymore!

(See others can get silly and melodramatic too)

Hotter, less range, less locational damage per shot (have to hit the same place more times). Since when were they ever BETTER than AC5's? Get over the word 'pointless', it's not really the issue. They are blatantly inferior. Know what that 2 tons gets you? Two heatsinks that still leave them much hotter running than an AC5.

If they wanted to lower the DPS, sure okay. Then lower the heat as well. There was no need at all to lower the range unless they lowered the range across the board on AC's.

Every class of AC is less weight than the higher cailber.
Every class of AC takes fewer crits than the higher cailber.
Every class of AC has a faster projectile than the higher caliber.

Here's the problem:

Every other class of AC runs cooler than the higher caliber.
Every other class of AC outranges the higher caliber.

The AC2 had one thing going for it to compensate for it's out of whack heat. DPS. It was out of line with the other AC's which lower in DPS as the caliber drops (it was higher dps). It was out of line with other AC's which lower in HPS as the caliber drops (it was and still is higher hps). That was it's tradeoff. The range was never a factor in that.


Let's just invert them all. We'll standardize AC dps, then make the AC20 longer range and cooler than the 10, and the 10 than the 5....That makes perfect sense right? Noone should be bothered by that.

Trauglodyte, on 18 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

People that took the AC2s off of their mechs are the people that don't understand the hidden "vision" PGI has for ACs or why they made the change. So, I'll help you out here:

DPS ACs: AC2/UAC5 (meant for short bursts)
Ranged ACs: AC5/Gauss Rifle (meant for banging at long ranges)
Slug ACs: AC10/AC20 (meant for close in and short mid-range fights)
Scatter ACs: LB (meant to suck and waste tonnage for funzies)

You can use any AC, to a point, at range. The ACs still has the longest optimum range but is meant, and seen by many even before this change, as an extremely heavy machine gun. But, what PGI wants us to use it for, and what many people were doing for the past couple of years anyway, is to get within a decent range and let a few bursts rip and then recover the heat cost. What people WERE doing was using that same mentality but at 2000m where they were wasting ammo and doing jack for damage. Truth be told, this change was needed because, as a sniper weapon, why run the AC2 for the same range as the Gauss Rifle when the former paled in comparison?

Forgive me if I don't have the utmost faith in PGI's 'vision'.

See above.

I can get within the same range with an AC5, and let the same amount of damage 'rip' within whatever time window (they have the same DPS now) and not have to recover the heat cost. Oh, but I can 'bang at range' with it too. Sorry, that doesn't wash. Can't have it both ways. If that's it's role, then it needs to outperform in it.

Once again, the problem is they cut the DPS -and- the range. With no heat relief. Dropping one -or- the other would have been fine, and should have come with at least some heat reduction

Want to make it fall in line more with other AC's? Drop the DPS, drop the heat, leave the range alone.

Want to make it into a closer 'ripping' burst weapon? Drop the range, leave it's DPS to rip with. And still give it some heat relief. It's over twice the HPS of the AC5. Unless you're going to give it twice the DPS...

They failed to balance it in line with the other AC's. They failed to make it into that vision you state as well. Do either, I don't care. But at least do it right, they succeeded at neither.

Edited by Spades Kincaid, 18 April 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Gyrok]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 18 April 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

OP, take it one step further and sell off all those AC2s. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then the nerf wasn't really all that bad was it?

I would, except I learned a long time ago to never sell anything...(except the stock engine from the locust...and the command console...)

[Khobai]

Quote

Let's see..... Two tons lighter, faster projectile and only 1 crit...... yup useless! How date they not be BETTER then ac5s anymore!

They are useless.

It doesnt matter that AC2s are 2 tons lighter because you still need 6 more DHS to run at the same heat level as an AC5. So in terms of heat the AC5 is actually 4 tons lighter than the AC2.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

AC2's were mostly situationally good before the changes. So I didn't really use them much at all.

I have one Shadow Hawk that has one.

It's a dumb nerf, mostly because it throws them out of whack in how AC's work in Battletech.

[Damocles69]

yes. they are a garbage weapon now. no reason to ever use.

on the plus side, the ac10 is now only the second worst ac...yay