426 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Remember weapon modules only go upto level 2 right now. Theyre planned to go upto level 5. So theyre going to be two or three times better at max level. I personally think weapon modules will be worth it later on.

The problem is the module system as planned doesnt get us any closer to role warfare. Thats what we want. We want a module system that makes playing two different mechs actually feel different.

An Awesome should play equal but different from a Victor and not just feel like a useless walking center torso with no jumpjets. An Awesome should be tanky and lay down a massive barrage of firepower from its triple PPCs. While the Victor should be a highly mobile second-line mech that cant withstand nearly as much punishment as the Awesome. If the module system doesnt get us closer to that then whats the point?

Again as an example... they might get these module slots. With the Victor likely being penalized a module slot for having jumpjets.

Awesome: 2 consumable, 2 weapons, 1 defense, 1 universal (+1 universal with mastery)
Victor: 2 consumable, 2 weapons, 1 mobility (+1 universal with mastery)

Edited by Khobai, 13 July 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Moohlord]

Motroid, on 12 July 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

What you describe here is tedious but intended game design. Free to play game design. Yeah, the mechlabs sturdiness and un-usability is game design. They don't want you to find your one and only XL345 engine or that one target decay module easily. They want you to actually buy a second one and another XL engine. They want you to keep as many mechs as possible as powerful as possible ready to go in a click. This is called "time-sink" and comes in many forms. One form is the "bad" mechlab. Ever asked yourself why the mechlab is not accessible from private lobby? Same reason. Time sink. You still can choose to "sink" the time by clicking many buttons to switch engines and modules or grind out duplicates. This is nothing new in F2P games. This is how it works. You just have to see the big picture here. I don't say I like it but I see the reasoning behind the "bad" mechlab.

Sorry but this is more than pathetic.Horrible design gets me to quit the game. Not to put more resources in it. It is just bad work. And 95% of all gamers will not fall for what you call methodic. They will more likely stop playing instead of spending more money or playtime in unnecessary stuff just for this little comfort.
Warframe, Hawken, League of Legends are F2P as well and they allow me to sort and filter my stuff. With a user interface that is worth calling it like that.
The Mechlab is nothing but a statement of incompetence.
In addition to that I can buy as much ammo as I want, it will not make finding the right type easier in any way.

Edited by Moohlord, 13 July 2014 - 03:25 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Not happy about what I am hearing with the module situation. I like MORE modules yes. Though telling me that I HAVE to use consumeables? NO! When I do it is UAV. I never use Strikes. In my opinion it should be in play a fraction of what I see in use now. The biggest offender? Easily the Tourney Exploiters. You can't tell me that YOU should get the Accolade of more damage from calling in a strike. The Artilleryman or Bomber Jock is responsible for that. You got the spot. That is it. If you are gonna have to use a consumeable, make 1 or an any slot. And the Master slot? Damn well better be a slot of MY choosing. Hear that? MY Master. MY choice. Not yours or anyone elses.

Edited by HammerMaster, 13 July 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Asmudius Heng, on 13 July 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Weapons modules are not a bad idea but the current ones where range is traded for heat kinda sucks. We have ER weapons for that already so we have similar choices. Also, the small effect the boost in range gives is only good some of the time, much of the time you might be within effective range anyway so cop that heat for no benefit.

If weapons modules that buff damage come out that will be a different story perhaps...

Weapons modules are not a bad idea as an entry level module system because the GXP cost is low to start but the cbill cost is still rediculous ...

This, exactly. The only mechs I use range modules on are the rare few that are not already heat limited AND have short range weaponry.

Ultimately, on most maps its trivial to approach to withing around 450m under cover. Ranges beyond that ate helpful, yes - you don't HAVE to approach at all) but its easy to get that close without endangering yourself.

As such, paying a heat cost to extend already longer ranges isn't very useful, given how rarely the extra range is actually useful.

So, my Yen Lo Wang with its AC20 and LPL runs twin weapon modules simply because heat is already a non issue, and its weapons are pretty short ranged so any improvement matters.

If you're hitting heat cap when playing, though, equipping those modules flat out lowers your DPS output. Blah.

[Evex]

I woke up today and oddly remembered the range modules weren't fully implemented yet. If my memory serves me correct each range module is meant to have five levels to it. Looking at the values on Smurfy the numbers appear to double with each level. Let us use a medium laser as an example.

Medium Laser Range Mod

Lv 1
min range increase: 5.40
heat increase: 0.08
max range increase: 10.80

Lv2
min range increase: 10.80
heat increase: 0.16
max range increase: 21.60

Lv3
min range increase: 21.60
heat increase: 0.32
max range increase: 43.20

Lv4
min range increase: 43.20
heat increase: 0.64
max range increase: 86.40

Lv5
min range increase: 86.40
heat increase: 1.28
max range increase: 172.8

In the end a medium laser with a medium laser range increase will look like this.

Stock Medium Laser

Min Range: 270
Heat: 4.00
Range: 540

Medium Laser w/ Lv5 range increase

Min Range: 356.40
heat: 5.28
Max Range: 712.8

The range modules will never allow you to turn a medium laser into an er medium laser, or even a large laser with its range. Granted a medium laser with a level five range module has 12.8 more range then a stock large pulse laser for 2.72 less heat.

When it comes to lasers if PGI increases the power of a weapon. The gains most likely will be small, as to not cause a weapon to do the same amount of damage as a more powerful version. For example a medium laser having the damage of a large laser. Instead of increased heat these power up modules might come with increased duration to the laser. The stronger the laser becomes the longer you have to hold it on the enemy battlemech. Alternatively if you have a module which lowers the weapon heat. You might see the range of the weapon come down; in a similar fashion to how the range module works. The only way I can see them doing more damage on ballistic weapons is to either increase the cool down on the weapon, or decrease the weapons range.

Edited by Evex, 13 July 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[oldradagast]

Xeno Phalcon, on 12 July 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

So we will get on most mechs 2 consumable slots, 2 weapon slots and 1 mech slot, and the master slot is a weapon slot?

One second while I get my baby powder, need to get the most out of this pimp slap.
-------------

Seriously, no mech should take more than one arty type, and being 'encouraged' to invest more gxp into weapon slots because we get three of those but have to choose between 'mech' slots (That would be radar dep, seismic, decay,ect) which basically means get wrecked.

And any variant that has more than one mech slot is instantly superior to others (if they have any like that).

Basically.

This idea is detestable - so, the guys at PGI are going to strip away the mech slots I have and replace them with a lesser number based on what THEY think the appropriate "role" is for the mech? Yeah, great job on punishing people for previous investments, as well as punishing people for trying to be creative.

Oh, but in it's place I can waste millions of dollars and thousands of cbills on worthless weapon module that let me overheat quicker... or ones that have no drawback at all. Right...

[FireDog]

Maps and CW sound good but I have some misgivings about the module system. I pretty much greatly dislike the ratio of Consumables, Weapons and Mechs slots, 2, 2 & 1 with the earned module slot being just another weapon slot.... That’s pretty much BS.... One, many do not use consumable that much... second, weapon slots are not much of a priority for most of us... a few extra meter range? Who cares... and the most important slots, the generic mech slots, only one? Are you out of your minds? If I want extra sensitive radar, shock absorbers and zoom dang it.... I want them. Finally, the hard earned slot that we worked so hard for, grinded precious hours away of our own free time, is not our free choice? You have got to be kidding!!!! Please, for everyone’s sake, use your minds and see reason on this…

Edited by FireDog, 13 July 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Tholis Verrin]

I don't want to sound ungrateful, however, But I'd rather have the maps cleaned up now instead of new ones. The sheer volume of fire that should hit targets but collides with terrain hit boxing that simply shouldn't be there is appalling.

The crystals in the desert are a good example as is some of the drop ship wreckage. Rocks every where are guilt of this as well.

Glad to see some progress being made, but I feel it would be a worthwhile effort to clean up existing assets before you dive head long into creating more maps with terrible hit boxing.

Thanks!

[Impyrium]

The new maps sound great, the industrial one is looking welcome except that it looks a little... crowded. There's nothing worse than a corridor based map in a 'Mech shooter. Hopefully I'm just looking at it the wrong way.

Anyway, great devlog!

[Karmen Baric]

Having only one mech module is lame. - Can I resell my multiple modules for original Cbill price now?
Forcing people to use the useless weapon modules is lame.
The arty/ air strike were really the only modules that needed limitation and this has not been done as far as I can tell -lame.
Not giving us the choice of slot for the earned extra slot in a mech -lame.


Most pilots use the mech modules as they area actually useful (in genera gameplay), I don't use the crappy weapon modules, no longer use consumable in 99% of matches. So now Ill have wasted slots, At least I know I don't need to grind 3 diff versions of each mech for the useless extra slot now.

Edited by Karmen Baric, 13 July 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

yelling about module slot's now. What is next?

I didn't even use the damn things and I still got over 1000 damage matches, I still average a few kills a game. I still preform as well as I could.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 14 July 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

sounds good.. other than the modules. Weapon modules are currently crap, which is why no one uses them.. the solution to that is to make them not crap, not force people to use them with arbitrary rules on what you can install.

That said, the new system could work ok with tweaks - namely, make default something like 2 weapon, 2 mech, 1 consumable. then at master allow players to choose the category from weapon or mech (i.e. max of 1 consumable, ever)

allowing 2 consumable slots which can only contain consumables is a shameless money grab (MC consumables) and will hurt the game by increasing arty spam by 2 or 3 times... personally i think you should only be able to call in arty/air if you have a command console.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 July 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Myke Pantera]

Like many many others i agree that 2(Consumables), 1(Mechmodule), 2+1(Weaponmodules) per default is something that greatly frustrates me, for several reasons:

1) You tell me what modules to use, instead of me thinking of how and which modules i wonna combine. The more you limit my possibilities, the less fun i will have.
2) One Weapon Slot for mastering a mech offers nothing to me personally. No need to master at all.
3) I don't like consumables! UAV is a good thing, the rest is more like a damage cheat. I don't approve, and i don't wonna use them. I though it a good thing, that people who want to use them had to sacrifice good sensor, targeting or utility modules in order to get their arti/airstrikes.
4) Weapon modules don't improve your weapons. They give you insignificant more range for more heat. Given the fact that almost everything in this game is balanced through the heat system, and almost everything is limited by heat already, i am not willing to pay for range with heat. Especially when it costs me the same as a good XL engine. Further, most lights i run don't even have 3 different weapon system installed.

As for the JumpJet changes, we'll have to wait and see. I'll give it a chance before complaining.

The rest sounds pretty good to me! Well executed video (although i encourage the video team to focus the ppl and not the mw:o poster at the back) and i enjoyed watching it.

Thanks 4 the update!

Edited by Myke Pantera, 14 July 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[TamerSA]

I'm not 100% clear on the reconnect functionality though....

From what I understood listening to the devlog, if you reconnect within 2 minutes of disconnecting you "will still be able to get all of your rewards for the match".

Does this then mean that if you leave a match before it ends, you lose your rewards?
For argument sake let's differentiate between the cause being that you got killed, and just disconnecting to farm (which I don't support but it happens).

Edited by TamerSA, 14 July 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Bigbacon]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 July 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

yelling about module slot's now. What is next?

I didn't even use the damn things and I still got over 1000 damage matches, I still average a few kills a game. I still preform as well as I could.

this is probably true for a lot of people. I barely use them but I don't have enough GXP or bills to ever get them. 2 that actually use are weapon ones also...

they are things that are supposed to enhance your capabilities but they shouldn't be a crutch and relied on so heavily.

and..well you spend virtual money on them...oh well. you had a ton a fun playing a game.

Edited by Bigbacon, 14 July 2014 - 04:39 AM.

[Kmieciu]

IS and clan LRMs should have no minimum range. Instead, their tracking capabilities should be decreased so that they would be easy to dodge at close range. Think MW4.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Useful weapon modules:

Laser:

Small/Medium/Large Laser

a ) Range increase
By exchanging the focus crystals of the lasers, the beam of a laser can be focussed better at the cost of the spectral sensibility. The crystal needs more time to cool down, thus increasing the cooldown-time for the laser.

Quirks:
Module for Small/Medium and Large-Laser Variants, each 2.500/7.500/15.000 GXP
500.000 C-Bills/2M C-Bills/5M C-Bills
Range increase by 12.5%
Cooldown-Duration increase by 6%

Only usable on Standard or Pulse-Laser-Weaponry. Not usable on ER-Laser-Technology.

b ) Damage-Increase
New coils offering less resistance are capable to ramp up the overall energy-throughput of a laser before it has to cool down. While the amount of used energy remains the same, the focus crystal can only maintain a certain energy-throughput per time, lengthening up the firing-process.

Quirks:
Usable on all Laser-Weaponry (Small/Medium/Large)
2.500/7.500/15.000 GXP
500.000 C-Bills/2M C-Bills/5M C-Bills
No further restrictions.
Damage increase of 10%
Beam-Duration increase by 10%

c ) Heat Reduction
One of the best selling tuning kits for lasers is the quite expensive, but still popular "refinement kit". It uses new coils and focus crystals and all parameters have been tweaked to make the weapon more efficient in its general Input/Output function, while maintaining most of their original specs.

Quirks:
2.500/7.500/15.000 GXP
500.000 C-Bills/2M C-Bills/5M C-Bills
Heat reduction of 7.5%
Cannot be used with neither "Range Increase Module" or "Damage Increase Module"


Missiles:

a ) Range-Increase for SRMs and S-SRMs:
By using a more efficient fuel and ejection system, the range of all SRM-missiles could be enhanced. S-SRMs suffer from a slightly more instable flight-behavior due to the increased pressure. In order to hold them stable, they had to reduce the thrust, reducing their speed making them more vulnerable to enemy AMS.
SRMs on the other hand use a more robust rocket design. Still, the pressure hinders any Artemis-System to cope with the increased instabilities, rendering the margin of "enhancements" to zero.

Quirks:
Range of all S-SRM Missiles increased by 15%
Range of SRM-Missiles increased by 12.5%
Speed of S-SRM missiles reduced by 15%
Any Bonus of Artemis IV for SRMs is reduced to 0
15.000 GXP
5M C-Bills

b ) Damage-Increase for LRM-Missiles
By tweaking the explosive to fueling mixture for LRMs, the explosive capacity of these missiles could be enhanced. As this mixture reduces the fuel of any LRM-missile, the range is obviously decreased.
Damage increased by 10%
Maximum range deacreased by 10%
Speed decreased by 5%
15.000 GXP
5M C-Bills

c ) High explosive warhead:
SRMs can be equipped with a high-explosive warhead. While the missile will become more unstable due to its heavy warhead, the damage output can be increased by a visible amount.

Quirks:
Damage increase by 15%
Can only be used on SRMs
Any Bonus of Artemis IV for SRMs is reduced to 0
15.000 GXP
5M C-Bills

d ) Fast-reload mechanism
An alternative reloading mechanism will increase the average reload time of SRMs with the drawback of having a steady-state reload-mechanism, leading to a firing mechanism similar to the Clan-LRM system for SRMs. Thus the ability to "Cluster fire" entire racks of missiles will be replaced with a "chain of missiles". While this chain will also lead to a more accurate firing vector (single missiles have no "spread"), you lose the ability to "splat" someone in the face.
When for example the last missile of an SRM6 rack has been fired, the next missile will be ready to be used, so you do not notice any reload time at all.

Quirks:
Average-reload time is reduced by 15%
Missiles will fire in a constant chain
Spread of missiles is vastly reduced

Usable for SRM4 and SRM6 only
Artemis cannot be used in this mode
15.000 GXP
5M C-Bills

Ballistics:
a ) Jam-Reduction module for Ultra-ACs
Introducing an experimental reload-system that eliminates most of the flaws invoked by the Ultra-Auto-cannon system, this firing mechanism vastly reduces the chance of a jam for ultra-autocannons by 50%. This comes at the cost of a steady-state firing mechanism.

Quirks:
Jam probalitity reduced by 50%
Firing mechanism is changed into steady-state

15.000 GXP
5M C-Bills


... those are my ideas for now for... "useful" weapon systems. Maybe adapting them here and there, but I guess, this is what I would use GXP for. (And C-Bills)

Other than that, a single Mech-Module-Slot is just not enough. I need at least 2 for most of my mechs, esp. sensor upgrades. While I could argue about the amount of consumable-slots and weapon slots on a mech, I think that mechs with only one mech-module slot will be put into a severe disadvantage. 3 are in most cases the way to go. Make it two without master, and 3 with master for most mechs. Other than that, there was a post that is popping up in a quote over and over again. If you are out of ideas, creativity or both, take it as a reference for what the community wants.

Edited by Shevchen, 14 July 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[xeromynd]

All good stuff but very disappointed about the module slots.

Basically I will no longer be able to have my Target Info, Adv Zoom, and Seismic modules all on one mech. Rather disappointing that build configurations I've loved to play with are now made impossible (yet again). The module slot you gain from mastering a mech should definitely be a 'mech module' NOT a weapon module.

[SVK Puskin]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 July 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

yelling about module slot's now. What is next?

I didn't even use the damn things and I still got over 1000 damage matches, I still average a few kills a game. I still preform as well as I could.

So you are the minority in this community and we are the majority so think twice next time before you post something!

[Jody Von Jedi]

TamerSA, on 14 July 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

I'm not 100% clear on the reconnect functionality though....

From what I understood listening to the devlog, if you reconnect within 2 minutes of disconnecting you "will still be able to get all of your rewards for the match".

Does this then mean that if you leave a match before it ends, you lose your rewards?
For argument sake let's differentiate between the cause being that you got killed, and just disconnecting to farm (which I don't support but it happens).

Currently, when you die before the end of the match, you are rewarded for what you have up to that point, but if you stay in the match and spectate, you can potentially end up with more assists, especially if your team wins. I mention this only as a comparison to how I think the "Rejoin" will work. Let's say you lose connection during a match and currently we don't have the ability to go back into the match. What we accomplished at the point of the disconnect is all we are awarded. With the new "Rejoin" we can pick back up earning rewards where we left off. Unless our mech gets destroyed while we're disconnected. That's what I got out of it anyway.