19 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

I've been seeing a couple of threads about increasing the damage of IS streaks. While I agree that they do seem a bit underwhelming unless you're carrying 3+, I think there is a different approach to be had with these weapons. Ive been thinking about how IS LRMs work, arming themselves at 180. I applied this, somewhat, to IS streaks and came up with this idea:

An IS Streak SRM 2 rack will fire one projectile. Under 90 M, this projectile will behave the way an individual streak does, by homing in on a random component of the enemy, and hitting it causing 4.5 damage. After the 90 M threshold has been passed and the it has not hit anything (yet), the single Streak projectile will split into 2 separate missiles that will deal normal 2 damage and act as how IS streaks are currently.

This idea will make IS Streak SRMS balanced, IMO, to clan SRMS, seeing as the clammers have SSRM 4 and 6 racks. This will also negate the fact that Streaks are the opposite of pinpoint, and mimic the general consensus that IS weapons are better for pinpoint, instant damage, vs the clans lower DPS. Also, this will make lights and mediums more viable. Think about how lights combat assaults, running around the legs. It takes forever to do decent damage to an assault (as it should) but I think it still takes a bit too long. This streak solution will help make all IS streak carriers more effective brawlers.

I believe that this is the best solution to make IS streak SRM2's completely viable in brawling and close-med range engagements.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 13 July 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[FupDup]

To borrow from a different thread:

FupDup, on 12 July 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Streaks don't need more damage, they need to simply do the damage where you need it to go. They need to be aim-based similar to MW4, rather than being an RNG aimbot crutch like they are in MWO. If you aim at the CT when you fire your Streaks, they should try to home in on the CT. If you aim at the left leg, they should go for the left leg. If you aim at the right arm, they should go for the right arm. No more random hit table malarkey.

[Adiuvo]

Clan streaks are balanced by their long recycle times. DPS wise the various launches aren't that different, with the larger clan ones having a very very very slight edge.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Clan streaks are balanced by their long recycle times. DPS wise the various launches aren't that different, with the larger clan ones having a very very very slight edge.

It's not really any of that for me, it's the fact that they can carry far more in far less hardpoints. You need 1 maybe 2 to be effective against lights in any Clan mech, whilst mediums like the CN9-A, Trabuchets, Kintaros, and some griffins who have more than 3 missile HP's are the only ones that can really claim themselves as effective against lights.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 13 July 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

To borrow from a different thread:

Well while i agree that this is a viable change, Streaks have always held the most "fire and forget" value to me, as in not having to worry about aiming, as long as the target is locked, spam away. They would lose some of their fun for me if i had to aim at specific components with one of the only homing weapons in the game.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 13 July 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[FupDup]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 July 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

Well while i agree that this is a viable change, Streaks have always held the most "fire and forget" value to me, as in not having to worry about aiming, as long as the target is locked, spam away. They would lose some of their fun for me if i had to aim at specific components with one of the only homing weapons in the game.

Having aim would still have them be fire and forget, you'd just have to fire them at a specific hitbox before forgetting about them.

[Sephlock]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 July 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

I've been seeing a couple of threads about increasing the damage of IS streaks. While I agree that they do seem a bit underwhelming unless you're carrying 3+, I think there is a different approach to be had with these weapons. Ive been thinking about how IS LRMs work, arming themselves at 180. I applied this, somewhat, to IS streaks and came up with this idea:

An IS Streak SRM 2 rack will fire one projectile. Under 90 M, this projectile will behave the way an individual streak does, by homing in on a random component of the enemy, and hitting it causing 4.5 damage. After the 90 M threshold has been passed and the it has not hit anything (yet), the single Streak projectile will split into 2 separate missiles that will deal normal 2 damage and act as how IS streaks are currently.

This idea will make IS Streak SRMS balanced, IMO, to clan SRMS, seeing as the clammers have SSRM 4 and 6 racks. This will also negate the fact that Streaks are the opposite of pinpoint, and mimic the general consensus that IS weapons are better for pinpoint, instant damage, vs the clans lower DPS. Also, this will make lights and mediums more viable. Think about how lights combat assaults, running around the legs. It takes forever to do decent damage to an assault (as it should) but I think it still takes a bit too long. This streak solution will help make all IS streak carriers more effective brawlers.

I believe that this is the best solution to make IS streak SRM2's completely viable in brawling and close-med range engagements.

Any thoughts?

MACROSS MISSILE MASSACRE! MISSILES THAT SPLIT INTO MULTIPLE MISSILES!

I love it. It's like dakka, but in missile form.

.

PGI won't do it though.

[Kjudoon]

Why SRM2s are superior to Streak2s because this is how they seem to work most times.



If they hit torsos more often than limb extremities... I'd trust them to close the deal. I hate playing random damage bingo.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 July 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Having aim would still have them be fire and forget, you'd just have to fire them at a specific hitbox before forgetting about them.

well with what you know about hitboxes, I'm sure this would be a can of worms waiting to be opened...

Sephlock, on 13 July 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

MACROSS MISSILE MASSACRE! MISSILES THAT SPLIT INTO MULTIPLE MISSILES!

I love it. It's like dakka, but in missile form.

.

PGI won't do it though.

wouldnt it be pretty????

[FupDup]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 July 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

well with what you know about hitboxes, I'm sure this would be a can of worms waiting to be opened...

I'm not sure I get what you mean. Pretty much everything other than Lurms and SSRMs are aim-based, and those other weapons mainly just cause issues when they're used in rather large quantities and/or when they're fully pinpoint.

Assuming a miracle happened and Piggy implemented something along the lines of what I posted, SSRMs still wouldn't be fully pinpoint most of the time. A few missiles from the cluster would still have a decent chance of missing the intended hitbox, if some other part of the target's body intercepted the missiles (i.e. a Shadow Hawk's arm might take a few missiles intended for his CT, if he is angled appropriately).

The missiles wouldn't all converge into a single "super missile," they'd probably fly as a clump. A good portion of the damage would certainly hit the target area if the victim didn't turn/twist to block it, but there would also most likely be some splattered damage across nearby parts.

Edited by FupDup, 13 July 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

I'm not sure I get what you mean. Pretty much everything other than Lurms and SSRMs are aim-based, and those other weapons mainly just cause issues when they're used in rather large quantities and/or when they're fully pinpoint.

Assuming a miracle happened and Piggy implemented something along the lines of what I posted, SSRMs still wouldn't be fully pinpoint most of the time. A few missiles from the cluster would still have a decent chance of missing the intended hitbox, if some other part of the target's body intercepted the missiles (i.e. a Shadow Hawk's arm might take a few missiles intended for his CT, if he is angled appropriately). The missiles wouldn't all converge into a single "super missile," they'd probably fly as a clump.

well #1, it isn't a super missile, and #2 your idea still takes away from the ideal "fire and forget" mantra that Streak SRMs adhere to. I mean aiming is great and all, but for such a low damage weapon, I don't think you should have to aim quite so much. Plus, you're going to be moving fast and engaging fast targets with them at most times, making aiming a *****. I am always full speed and torso twisting in my Griffins and other mediums, firing from the locks at the edge of my torso twist range and making sure I have a lock, and thats all. No aiming involved, which is the beauty of streaks.

[Screech]

Remove the lock-on for SSRM and replace with a Tag laser with the same duration. If the laser hits 100% then the missiles are fired and the only can hit locations hit by the Tag.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Screech, on 13 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Remove the lock-on for SSRM and replace with a Tag laser with the same duration. If the laser hits 100% then the missiles are fired and the only can hit locations hit by the Tag.

then would it not intermix with the energy weapons category? this sounds a little bit too overcomplex

[Screech]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 July 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

then would it not intermix with the energy weapons category? this sounds a little bit too overcomplex

It would give them the hit scan property of laser and allow some skill to the guided missile weapon system. Not sure how it would be too complex considering I can spit out whole concept in 2 sentences.

[FupDup]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 July 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

well #1, it isn't a super missile, and #2 your idea still takes away from the ideal "fire and forget" mantra that Streak SRMs adhere to. I mean aiming is great and all, but for such a low damage weapon, I don't think you should have to aim quite so much. Plus, you're going to be moving fast and engaging fast targets with them at most times, making aiming a *****. I am always full speed and torso twisting in my Griffins and other mediums, firing from the locks at the edge of my torso twist range and making sure I have a lock, and thats all. No aiming involved, which is the beauty of streaks.

Keep in mind that something like MW4 wouldn't require you to keep facing the target for a prolonged period. You'd just point at the body part you want to hit, fire, and then take your evasive action as usual. It would be fairly similar to using FLD weapons while maneuvering at high speeds, but these proposed SSRMs would also 'try' to home in on the target body part (rather than flying straight ahead like other FLD weapons).



And honestly, SSRMs right now just aren't really that fun of a weapon. This is from both the shooter's standpoint and the target's.

For the shooter, it really sucks to have the missiles continuously impact body parts that are redundant. It's especially annoying when the enemy has a weakened CT or side torso, but the SSRMs keep chronically missing those parts when you need them most. It's also not fun being trolled by ECM, but that's another issue so I won't get into that. For Clan SSRMs, the long cooldowns also make them feel very slow-paced an anemic. They basically encourage a playstyle of peek and shoot (and then hide during cooldown), which isn't as fun as "hot blooded" brawling/open battles.

For the guy getting shot at, it's not fun because of the cockpit shake and obnoxious motion blur that goes with it. It also gives the target a feeling that his actions won't really change the results of the battle, because of the random hit table nature. If I twist/turn properly against a laser or FLD enemy, I can affect where his weapons hit me and thus survive longer if I do it well enough. Against SSRMs, evasive maneuvers don't usually have nearly as much of an impact.

In fact, PGI seems to have a hard time working out missiles as a whole, not just SSRMs in particular...

[Jazzbandit1313]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

In fact, PGI seems to have a hard time working out missiles as a whole, not just SSRMs in particular...

We can agree on that. Now I may not have the skill as some do, but it seems to me that while im torso twisting at mach speeds and bobbing up and down, jamming my mech to its side torso twist limit going 114 kph...trying to aim at another mech of equal or smaller size running around (especially ravens) is very hard and would make SSRMS always hit the arm or some outside part of the mech (arms, legs) as I am trying to flick my torso away as soon as i fire. the aiming would make them a highly skill based weapon, while (IMO) they should not be for such low damage and high tonnage vs normal SRMs.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 13 July 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Livewyr]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

To borrow from a different thread:

I like this.. but I do not think lights will. (All those streaks nailing a leg...)

[FupDup]

Livewyr, on 13 July 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

I like this.. but I do not think lights will. (All those streaks nailing a leg...)

They''d only all nail the leg if the shooter was able to keep a bead on them (and if the target didn't somehow take evasive action, such as turning so that their other leg would intercept the shot instead of the intended one). That's actually not a very large population, based on my adventures in the underhive. And anyways, direct fire that is aimed goes to the leg already, so I doubt it would be much worse than things like the classic Dragon Slayer builds, AC/40, etc. etc...

[General Taskeen]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

To borrow from a different thread:

In other-words. Skill-based. Rewarding the player for utilizing better mechanics that takes more thought and strategy into account.

We've tried for 2 years to get the Devs to drop the notion of clutch streak programming. Because they want a 1:1 TT like translation, which is no good in real-time.

Edited by General Taskeen, 13 July 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[FupDup]

General Taskeen, on 13 July 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

In other-words. Skill-based. Rewarding the player for utilizing better mechanics that takes more thought and strategy into account.

We've tried for 2 years to get the Devs to drop the notion of clutch streak programming. Because they want a 1:1 TT like translation, which is no good in real-time.

Actually, that's part of the problem with the current implementation. It's a complete mis-interpretation of TT on PGI's part.

Streaks in TT were just normal SRMs that didn't fire unless they knew they were going to all hit. If even one missile was expected to not hit, the launcher simply refused to fire (thereby not using up ammo or heat). PGI mistakenly thought this meant "Oh hey, since they don't fire when they would expect to miss, that clearly means they should always hit their target ya'll!"

Their TT role was saving ammo and not generating redundant heat. PGI turned them into a stupid aimbot. :\

Edited by FupDup, 13 July 2014 - 12:20 PM.