51 replies to this topic

[Wrenchfarm]

As someone who purchased the Pretty Baby when it was first introduced, I feel I have an obligation to make a public service announcement in light of the recent sale: DO NOT BUY THE PRETTY BABY.

Even at 50% off it will be a costly mistake you will regret. But it doesn't have to be. PGI could still do right by it's customers and make a few changes to the PB to make it a viable, if not spectacular, mech.

I'm sure I'll hear some cat calls over this. Yes, yes, caveat emptor, buyer beware, "stop being entitled" etc. Yes, people buying the PB should be looking at the thing and making their own judgement before buying it, that is true. However, I will say that the PB, as mediocre as it looks on paper, is much worse in actual game than its lacklustre stats would imply. I know I was one of the people who looked at it's dubious design but felt like they could make it work anyway, who wanted to overcome and prove it could work. I couldn't. None of the other PB owners I've talked to could. You probably can't either.

It is a lemon of a mech that takes all the weaknesses of the Awesome line (giant hitboxes, magnetic CT, etc) and adds in a bunch of its own. It is the only hero mech with NEGATIVE quirks. While the giant engine might seem like fun, the fact that it takes forever to accelerate and decelerate will put an end to whatever "quick assault striker" pipe-dream you're cooking up.
The hardpoints and potential builds on this thing are abyssal. 3 energy/3 missiles don't seem that bad on paper until you take a closer look at how they are positioned. One energy is a useless headslot (slap a TAG in there if anything, forget it exists), the others are spread between arm and torso. The three missile points are similarly spread, with one giant box in the chest (perfect for LRMs and for easy ST targeting for anyone with half a brain) and a two dinky 4-tube SRM launchers in the arm (not so perfect for LRMs). So what you end up with is a mech that practically necessitates using arm-lock no matter what you build to harmonize your weapon groups, can't boat LRMs (the 4-tube arm makes them fire out like useless roman candles to get chew up by AMS and recycle slowly), and even limits SRMs (you should stick with SRM4s in the arm since the staggered fire of SRM6s will spread damage or miss more and throw off the recycle time if you are also using an SRM6 in the chest).

You can try for some god-forsaken Frankenmech design of mixed energy types, LRMs, and SRMs like the default build suggests, but we all know how wonderful mixed builds tend to do (especially maverick ones). Otherwise you're stuck with trying to shoehorn it into a substandard PPC platform with maybe some SRMs or streaks to back it up, or if you try to utilize the huge engine cap, a shockingly fragile brawler.

Here is the most successful build I've found for my PB after endless attempts to make it work since buying it on day one. It is high-speed brawler (I took the XL385 from my 9M, you could opt for a smaller or larger engine to taste) and the only mech I use LPLAS on (you need to make the most of the two real energy slots and compensate for the lack of ballistics in a brawling build). The idea is to be a bully, hide during most of the fighting and look for an opportunity to rush a weakened mech and take it down with a fairly decent brawling alpha (IE, a strategy most mechs can adopt as a matter of course, but is necessary for the PB since it can't win fights with fresh mechs).

But here is a lark, lets compare my MOST SUCCESSFUL PB build with the humble bronze age Hunchback 4SP in the classic brawling config -

The 4SP with 5 MLAS and 2 SRM6 launchers has a potential alpha of 50.80 damage, a top speed of 89kph with tweak, decent heat management (better heat management than the PB if only using 4 MLAS), a classic slim profile, low height, and can survive the loss of both side torsos while continuing to fight, allowing you to spread your damage effectively and stay in the brawl dealing maximum potential damage.

Now compare to my brawling PB – 2 LPLAS, 1 SRM6, and 2 SRM4s, give you a potential alpha of 51.30 (with slightly better burn times and range than the MLAS, but worse recycle time), a top speed of 85kph with tweak (with worse manoeuvrability and sluggish response), and slightly better heat management than the 4SP. However, unlike the plucky HBK, the PB has a MASSIVE profile that pulls in missile and ballistic hits like it was made of magnets, and features huge, easy to target torso components. Using an XL, the PB is in constant danger of exploding sides – despite having a much higher armour rating, it is significantly less durable than the medium class HBK!

On paper, the PB is about as effective as the humble 4SP (ugh) But it gets even worse (UGH)! While I can easily use the flexible arms and torso twist of the HBK to target foes nearly 180 degrees around, I have to arm-lock the PB to get consistent fire from the separate hardpoints, so it's less flexible in a brawl or vs lights. The PB will take up an Assault slot on your team for the effective performance of a 50 ton mech, effectively handicapping your team (ask anyone if they would rather have a PB over a D-DC or Dragon Slayer on their team and they'll laugh so hard they'll suffer an ammo explosion). It costs nearly $30 of REAL MONEY, and then requires an expensive XL engine to take advantage of its supposed advantage (you can try to run the XL340 it comes with and be even slower and still die in to a stiff breeze, or tank up with a STD engine and not have any weight left for weapons).

That's right, you can pay more real money AND more cbills to not-quite-equal the performance of one of the oldest medium mechs in the game. What a deal!

Maybe some of you think this comparison is unfair. Maybe you think you can come up with a better build for the PB. I challenge you to try. The PB section of MechSpecs is a ghost town and I was saddened to see that an almost carbon copy of my build is touted as one of the best on that board.

So here is what I would like to see.

It's time to buff the PB. There are plenty of simple things that could be done to make this mech better.

Take off the stupid negative quirks. Not only is it insulting to pay for an intentionally gimped mech, it doesn't even fit the background story they cooked up for it (a super agile Awesome pilot who practically dances on opponents). If anything, it should have BETTER acceleration and deceleration than other Awesomes.

Change the hardpoints. Just add an extra energy slot in the arm a'la the 9M or 8Q. At least Awesome pilots could run their vintage 3xPPC builds (that aren't even effective anymore) on it. Or ghost in some extra tubes on the arm launcher so you can at least pack 3xSRM6s while keeping all the rockets on target and synced together.

Let it equip ECM. I'm sure people will *****, but I think it makes sense. The Awesome has always been a command mech. The PB's speed and vanguard role makes it a fine choice for an ECM Assault since it will be running with teammates and leading a charge (not like useless LRM D-DCs). Not to mention that given how quickly the PB withers and dies in LRM rain (my sides), it would be nice to have something to help avoid that fate. Twin AMS would even be nice.

Give it an extra module slot. This is just a quality of life thing. It could at least let us run an extra mod (bring an extra cool shot or Arty strike) in the vain hopes of being useful.

Any combination of these suggestions could go a long way to redeeming this mech.

Again, I know a lot of people are just going to scowl and say it's on the people who bought it to deal with it ("ADAPT AND OVERCOME SCRUB" – from the cockpit of a PPC wielding Timberwolf), but c'mon. This thing is a dog. A lot of Awesome pilots (myself included) bought it just to show support for their favourite underdog mech. But as time goes on and other heroes with great advantages and flexible, useful builds are introduced, it's hard not to feel like we got ripped off. When I see PGI put it on sale to try and hock it to other people, despite hearing so much negative feedback about it, it strikes me as irresponsible.

And above all, this is something PGI CAN fix. They don't need to issue refunds, or re-balance the game, all they have to do is implement a few tweaks like I suggested. Not a lot of work to show a whole lot of good faith to the Awesome fans out there.

PGI, do right by the customers who bought the PB and expected to at least get a viable mech that can pull it's own weight. Do right by the people who've bought it during this sale and are just now learning how limited it and difficult it is to perform in. Buff the PB, it needs it.

[Biaxialrain]

Well, you sound passionate, hope they listen.

[Roland]

If they allowed hero mechs to be bought for CBills, then they wouldn't have to make them all fairly bad.

[Heeden]

I wouldn't say it was the only hero with a negative quirk; the best thing about Centurions is their chest full of missiles and expendable arms, the Wang takes away your rocket slots and sticks all your fire-power in the glorified shield.

[cSand]

PB is good fun, don;t lead any charges with it though

[AntiCitizenJuan]

They need to remodel the Awesome.

It needs to be taller and leaner, by 10-15% each.
Making its shoulder guards bigger would also help its beerbelly from getting shot off.

[Tezcatli]

"What they produced not only replaced the aging Striker, it became one of the most feared Battlemech of all time." An exert from it's description on Sarna.net. Sadly that is not the case in MWO's current iteration. Some things don't translate well to real time combat. One of those things is being wider then the barn they're trying to hit. I honestly think they need to trim down the sides. Or just flat out give it a perk that reduces the heat on PPCs.

[Mystere]

The Pretty Baby is best thought of a a drag racer without brakes. It's best used for creating mayhem within enemy lines. I used to charge the enemy from behind and wreck havoc while the rest of my team moved in. I had a better than 50/50 chance of surviving with a minimum of 1 kill. I used to earn Johnny Fives even before that achievement existed.

Of course, this was all before the ERPPC changes and the introduction of ghost heat. As such, PGI can give the PB some heat and/or PPC related benefits to make it excel in that role again.

Edited by Mystere, 13 July 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Wrenchfarm]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 13 July 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

They need to remodel the Awesome.

It needs to be taller and leaner, by 10-15% each.
Making its shoulder guards bigger would also help its beerbelly from getting shot off.

Mystere, on 13 July 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

The Pretty Baby is best thought of a a drag racer without brakes. It's best used for creating mayhem within enemy lines. I used to charge the enemy from behind and wreck havoc while the rest of my team moved in. I had a better than 50/50 chance of surviving with a minimum of 1 kill. I used to earn Johnny Fives even before that achievement existed.

Of course, this was all before the ERPPC changes and the introduction of ghost heat. As such, PGI can give the PB some heat and/or PPC related benefits to make it excel in that role again.

These are both things that have been long suggested and would help the Awesome tremendously. PGI has stated that remodelling is just too much work to justify it, but I have no idea why they can't do something about the PPCs on the Awesome.

[Zordicron]

Some backstory on this mech, from back in Beta when it came out:

The forums, well, they had cried so hard about PTW when it came time to make a hero assault(at the time, it was Awesome or Atlas) that PGI was scared shitless about making a hero Atlas(still took them a long time didnt it) and threw their lot in with the Awesome instead. Fearing still it would be heralded as PTW champion of all time, they took an existing variant(9M) changed hardpoints a bit(remove) and then gave it the 400 cap as per cannon, but fearing it would be "OMG PTW SO FAST" they gave it the absolute terrible decel quirk.

Mission accomplished, NOT ONE PERSON SAID PTW when it came out.

OP is correct in his review. The quirks need to go, and in fact should get reversed, at least the decel side of it. The Awesome, in general, needs to have hit boxes reviewed(again) to make the arms come much farther in, and ST farther into CT. At this point, hoping PGI re-models the mech is a pipe dream. If they want the Awesome to not be a liability to the team(coming from a guy with 2:1 KDR in this thing on some variants/loadouts) they need to give it some buff quirks, mostly agility ones, ARMOR ones would help, HEAT ones would also help.

IMO, hit box fix, a slug of positive quirks might make Awesome in general a decent mech. PB needs the missile pods to simply go to 20 tube max, not this 4 tube crap, and PB would then have some flex in it's loadouts. At this point, changing the left arm to 1 missile and 1 ballistic, I doubt anyone could say it would be PTW, look at misery, and pfft, look it's an Awesome. Slapping an AC20 in the left arm, suddenly PB might be a little feared as a stout speedy brawler(after hit box etc is done) make the missile tubes count 20 in that arm, now PB can mount a brawl ballistic OR a large tube LRM launcher(s) or one of each eith torso included.

Really, I made mine into some lasers and LRM launchers, tube count be damned, and masterd it out and stripped it. I have never touched it again. The variant is bad, on a sub par chassis to begin with.

PGI PLZ FIX.

[Wrenchfarm]

Eldagore, on 13 July 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Some backstory on this mech, from back in Beta when it came out:

The forums, well, they had cried so hard about PTW when it came time to make a hero assault(at the time, it was Awesome or Atlas) that PGI was scared shitless about making a hero Atlas(still took them a long time didnt it) and threw their lot in with the Awesome instead. Fearing still it would be heralded as PTW champion of all time, they took an existing variant(9M) changed hardpoints a bit(remove) and then gave it the 400 cap as per cannon, but fearing it would be "OMG PTW SO FAST" they gave it the absolute terrible decel quirk.

Mission accomplished, NOT ONE PERSON SAID PTW when it came out.

OP is correct in his review. The quirks need to go, and in fact should get reversed, at least the decel side of it. The Awesome, in general, needs to have hit boxes reviewed(again) to make the arms come much farther in, and ST farther into CT. At this point, hoping PGI re-models the mech is a pipe dream. If they want the Awesome to not be a liability to the team(coming from a guy with 2:1 KDR in this thing on some variants/loadouts) they need to give it some buff quirks, mostly agility ones, ARMOR ones would help, HEAT ones would also help.

IMO, hit box fix, a slug of positive quirks might make Awesome in general a decent mech. PB needs the missile pods to simply go to 20 tube max, not this 4 tube crap, and PB would then have some flex in it's loadouts. At this point, changing the left arm to 1 missile and 1 ballistic, I doubt anyone could say it would be PTW, look at misery, and pfft, look it's an Awesome. Slapping an AC20 in the left arm, suddenly PB might be a little feared as a stout speedy brawler(after hit box etc is done) make the missile tubes count 20 in that arm, now PB can mount a brawl ballistic OR a large tube LRM launcher(s) or one of each eith torso included.

Really, I made mine into some lasers and LRM launchers, tube count be damned, and masterd it out and stripped it. I have never touched it again. The variant is bad, on a sub par chassis to begin with.

PGI PLZ FIX.

100% agree, although I can't imagine them taking the time to model a ballistic mount or even change the tubes (let alone actually scaling down the Awesome, a fix the community has wanted since CB). That's why I mostly suggested tweaks that could be done in an XML file ("ECM=1", "RA Energy Hardpoints=2", "turn off these terrible quirks" etc)

[PianoMan]

Tried forever and a day to play and get to like my PB.

Alas, it has been the ONLY hero mech I sold back.

[Koniving]

Wrenchfarm, on 13 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Real quick..
Got two things..

1) The negative quirks are what makes it a great mech. Think I'm kidding?
Take your Pretty Baby and climb a hill with the zig zag technique.
Now take any Victor with the same size engine and try the same thing.

Want to know what you'll notice? The Pretty Baby's inferior deceleration rate allows it to climb harder, longer, faster. It's the same effect as having a stronger-than-available-hill-climb-module that you can stack with the hill climb module to climb slopes that even light mechs can't climb. Why? Because PGI probably didn't think that through...much like many things.

2) Fixing the PB is all well and good. I've got a simpler fix though. Art overhaul with visual weapons customization + for the love of god fix the overlapping CT hitbox that makes CT easy to hit from the side by intentionally shooting the STs on ALL Awesomes. Perhaps a non-linear CT/ST configuration for the hitbox would help, akin to what was done for the Victor.


Because what we have isn't that different from this...

[jaxjace]

Tezcatli, on 13 July 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Or just flat out give it a perk that reduces the heat on PPCs.

******* this, ghost heat should never have been a thing on awesomes.

[FupDup]

jaxjace, on 13 July 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

******* this, ghost heat should never have been a thing on awesomes. ANYTHING.

Fixed.

[Monkey Lover]

When someone going to post a screen cap of a 8 kill game and say its fine?

[GreyGriffin]

The Awesome is pretty much the poster child for the need for chassis specific benefits, from ghost heat capacity to pilot skills to chassis and variant specific quirks. Balancing these factors chassis by chassis would create so much more variety.

[Wrenchfarm]

Koniving, on 13 July 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Real quick..
Got two things..

1) The negative quirks are what makes it a great mech. Think I'm kidding?
Take your Pretty Baby and climb a hill with the zig zag technique.
Now take any Victor with the same size engine and try the same thing.

Want to know what you'll notice? The Pretty Baby's inferior deceleration rate allows it to climb harder, longer, faster. It's the same effect as having a stronger-than-available-hill-climb-module that you can stack with the hill climb module to climb slopes that even light mechs can't climb. Why? Because PGI probably didn't think that through...much like many things.

I've heard that many times and will agree that the PB can get up some hills easier than other Assaults (well, except the ones with jump-jets anyway). However, the relatively few times that will help pale in comparison to the number of times you'll get slammed while skidding out of cover or generally be a clumsy derp in a brawl.

Good on you for trying to find a way to leverage it, but I'd rather just have responsive control than the ability to wriggle up hills slightly faster.

Edited by Wrenchfarm, 13 July 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Deathlike]

Koniving, on 13 July 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Real quick..
Got two things..

1) The negative quirks are what makes it a great mech. Think I'm kidding?
Take your Pretty Baby and climb a hill with the zig zag technique.
Now take any Victor with the same size engine and try the same thing.

Want to know what you'll notice? The Pretty Baby's inferior deceleration rate allows it to climb harder, longer, faster. It's the same effect as having a stronger-than-available-hill-climb-module that you can stack with the hill climb module to climb slopes that even light mechs can't climb. Why? Because PGI probably didn't think that through...much like many things.

2) Fixing the PB is all well and good. I've got a simpler fix though. Art overhaul with visual weapons customization + for the love of god fix the overlapping CT hitbox that makes CT easy to hit from the side by intentionally shooting the STs on ALL Awesomes. Perhaps a non-linear CT/ST configuration for the hitbox would help, akin to what was done for the Victor.


Because what we have isn't that different from this...

I think that is the most skewed, crazy, and insane defense for the PB.

While I adamantly disagree, I commend you for putting up something from left field that made crazy good sense.

[Kiiyor]

I'd be happy with more missile tubes, so it could use all that engine to make it an incredibly fat striker.

Also, the deceleration needs to be reworked. It slows down like an ocean liner sliding down from the top of a hill on a road covered with banana peels.