60 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Roland, on 14 July 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

The thing is, Mechwarrior has generally always been about combat.

Except for the variant game modes like Capture the Flag and King of the Hill.

For that matter, there were even different kinds of combat. Destruction was about getting kills. Attrition was about doing damage.

Read: MechWarrior has never been purely about combat. It's a game and there are many fun ways to play it.

Roland, on 14 July 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

However, since the Skirmish type now exists, I don't really care much about the Assault game mode.

I think the OP is primarily talking about Conquest.

I agree with the people who've said that the current cap times are appropriate for Assault, but that they need to be lowered for Conquest. Those two game modes should play much more differently than they currently do.

Skirmish is currently a free-flowing brawl that can sometimes range all over the map. Or become NASCAR with Mechs.

Assault is more fixed, as the name implies. A team can't afford to completely abandon its base unless the battle is well in hand, so it has a very different feel than Skirmish.

Unfortunately Conquest currently feels like Assault because of how long it takes to cap. You have to guard your holdings carefully to prevent the enemy from capturing them. If cap times were reduced the game would be much more free-flowing and would allow for more hit-and-run tactics.

[Solahma]

People might actually buy the light mech heroes if they had a bigger roll in the game
*wink wink nudge nudge*

[Prezimonto]

MoonUnitBeta, on 14 July 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Conquest would be nice if the cap times were relevant to map size.

In Alpine, it’s a good time limit, currently.

In Caustic, it’s a hell of a long time… and should be around 1:45min to 2 mins. To take a cap point from one side to another.

This makes too much sense.

[Roland]

Roadkill, on 14 July 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Except for the variant game modes like Capture the Flag and King of the Hill.

For that matter, there were even different kinds of combat. Destruction was about getting kills. Attrition was about doing damage.

Well, we never really played CTF or KOTH in competitive formats back in MW4. In terms of TD or TA, both were about kills... Attrition gave you points based on damage, but the winner was still the one who killed all the enemy mechs (at least in NR play).

We basically just played attrition rather than destruction because then you could monitor the scoreboard to test whether you were doing damage, due to the crazy bad netcode.

[Roadkill]

Roland, on 14 July 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Well, we never really played CTF or KOTH in competitive formats back in MW4.

You missed out, then. I played in a couple of really fun CTF leagues back in MW4. The teamwork required went far beyond what I saw in straight-up combat leagues.

But if you're only taking competitive formats, why do you care about Conquest and Assault at all? Competitive leagues only use Skirmish, so changing the cap rate won't affect them at all.

[Mercules]

Roadkill, on 14 July 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

You missed out, then. I played in a couple of really fun CTF leagues back in MW4. The teamwork required went far beyond what I saw in straight-up combat leagues.

But if you're only taking competitive formats, why do you care about Conquest and Assault at all? Competitive leagues only use Skirmish, so changing the cap rate won't affect them at all.

Yep, CTF matches at LANs were a blast!

You need some fast mechs but you also need punch. A lot of the time the matches would be won or lost based on who maneuvered their "punch" better OR possibly who used their fast mechs not only to try and grab the flag, but who also souted with them better so that their heavy hitters could make better choices as to where to be positioned or move to.

[Redshift2k5]

I've hated conquest for a long time, I'd love to see some sweeping changes.

Reduced cap time so a mech who decides to cap isn't spending 3 minutes doing nothing, or even upwards of 10 minutes if you want to cap two things plus travel time. If you do spend most of the match capping you get almost no personal reward and overal CB per hour seems way off.

[Ph30nix]

cap times IN CONQUEST ONLY should be fractions of what they are now. Currently its rush to cap them then battle royal time. The points should be changing hands in about 10-20 seconds to encourage a lot of movement and help prevent matches from always ending by kills instead of points. If you want matches by kills then play assault or skirmish.

Oh and while they are doing that PLEASE PUT THE REWARDS BACK TO WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.
the 1/2 cbill reward just makes conquest not worth the time to play.

Edited by Ph30nix, 14 July 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Just remove reward for damage and replace with time capturing. After people realize they are getting no cbills/xp for playing skirmish on conquest, things will change.

[Zolaz]

You dont even get any credit for capping points. No c-bill or exp reward. For some reason Conquest doesnt reward players for trying to cap points. Conquest still mostly comes down to fighting.

[Solahma]

There is a reason games like Battlefield have extremely fast cap times. It's to promote faster gameplay and movement. Keep moving from point to point. It also makes it more difficult to dig-in and defend a point if the enemy can cap it faster in the middle of an engagement.

I understand MWO isn't trying to mimic games like Battlefield, with good reason, but the fast point captures is one formula I would love to see. At least tested in a PTS.

[Sean von Steinike]

Livewyr, on 14 July 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

The cap times are high, to prevent a squad of 3 IS light mechs running around capping everything (and back-capping) without anyone being able to engage them.

One should bring 3+ mechs to cap with them.. (and that is where you get your battles over resources)

Yeah, because giving light mechs a role they excel at ticks off heavy and assault pilots........

[Joseph Mallan]

Vandul, on 14 July 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

I will say no to your No.

Conquest is about the Cap not the fight. You are on a resource gathering mission.

[M0rpHeu5]

Remove the neutral zone

[Troutmonkey]

Reduce conquest cap times to about half of what they currently are and add:

Uncap : X cbills / y experience
Fullcap: X points / y experience

Currently every Conquest game strategy is to deathball over one or two objectives and then just kill your opponent.
Forcing lances to split up to take caps in a timely fashion will be a refreshing change. I remember the good old days of Open Beta when the enemy would death ball one cap at a time so instead of engaging you would go around them and cap every point. Can't do that now because the death ball moves much faster than the caps flip.

[Mechteric]

1 minute would be sufficient to fully flip from red to blue, 3 minutes is just insane

[Roadkill]

M0rpHeu5, on 14 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Remove the neutral zone

That'll piss off the Klingons and Romulans.

[Vandul]

Troutmonkey, on 14 July 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Care to explain your stance? I'm talking about Conquest here, the game mode where you win by capping points, not Assault.

Sure. Shorter cap times mean slow Clan lights, and other mechs who arent mobile will be penalized. You will take a game mode and make it a light mech fest that ends in 3-4 minutes as the enemy tries to react.

/pass

There are better ways to address this.

[Mechteric]

Vandul, on 18 July 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

Sure. Shorter cap times mean slow Clan lights, and other mechs who arent mobile will be penalized. You will take a game mode and make it a light mech fest that ends in 3-4 minutes as the enemy tries to react.

/pass

There are better ways to address this.

Huh? The existing slow clan mechs have nothing to do with this, at some point there will be fast clan mechs. This is about making the game mode more interesting, currently the only maps it makes sense to worry about capping on are Alpine and other such large maps. The slow cap time on river city for instance makes it nearly worthless.

[Vandul]

Maybe they can change cap times per map. Or they could set it to speed up for a team that is grossly behind in caps. Or they could outfit mechs with some kind of device that caps for them. Or they could use a ticket syste.

Like I said, there are plenty of ways to address this, but a general reduction in caps isnt that way. Thats my opinion anyhow.