41 replies to this topic

[Veranova]

It's coming next patch

Russ replied to me on Twitter earlier.
Soon^TM

[DeathlyEyes]

All fall damage did was make it harder to get around maps without jump jets. PGI roll it back its doing nothing but hurting the balance in the game. Same with your terrain movement penalty system.

[Void Angel]

You're posting judgement before you've even tried the changes? Unwise.

Edited by Void Angel, 15 July 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Void Angel, on 15 July 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

You're passing judgement when you haven't even tried the changes? Unwise.

I just did a preliminary pass of unscientific testing to generate first impressions. I used my Spider 5D, with only four jets, my Cataphract 3D, and my Highlander 733C - both with max jump jets installed. I don't have a really jump-centric medium build right now, so I forwent that weight class in my testing. My conclusion: it's a mixed bag.

Lights feel almost unchanged. Even with just four jets, I was able to jet around the battlefield with no trouble getting over/onto things, or avoiding leg damage. My piloting style for lights is rather low to the ground, however - if you are used to long burns for volunteering as a ***** target high-altitude jumps, your mileage may vary.

The Cataphract, on the other hand, is a noticeable change. It takes a lot of constant thrusting to get any altitude, so unless I'm using the jets rto peek over a hilltop, I'd have to burn most or all of my reaction mass to reach firing height in many instances. In fact, I didn't even notice the effect of jump jet heat on my poptarting efficiency, because I spent so much time waiting for my reaction mass to recharge that it was hard to notice. Reaching the top of a mere three-story building on Crimson Strait can require perfect timing and positioning.

As for the Highlander, I'm afraid I'm going to have to descend into what I hope is gentle sarcasm. It was my distinct pleasure to test the new Type 1 Mountain Mobility Interactive Equipment (T1MMIE, for short) that was apparently placed in the live environment rather than the test server - however, it is difficult to evaluate the system with jump jets disabled. Seriously, though; the Highlander already felt like it was being hoisted by a crane; its jump jets are now almost useless for anything but climbing steep grades. May the Blessed Blake help you if you want to jump onto something, because that's just not the sort of thing that happens to you, fatty. Aww, don't cry, chubby bunny - have some more chocolate!

Overall, The heavier chassis feel like they need their numbers tweaked, or their mechanics altered. Personally, I'd like to see a lot more speed out of jump jets, up and down, with slower recharge and more heat being the primary balance mechanism.

Um this thread is nothing to do with the new jumpjets.

This is to do with the tiny locust height drops that chip away the damage on legs that hurts the 20-25 ton light mechs that have no jumpjets and survive by speed alone.

[Void Angel]

Oops. Sorry. Posted in the wrong tab. =D

[Lt Badger]

Void Angel, on 15 July 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm guessing there's a reason that the Light Mech queue is often down at 12% during my playing hours - and it's not just that everyone loves their Mad Cats and Daishis. =)

no, its not
i love my jenners, but i had to equip them with more JJs since they´re changed - no problem, was pissed off because of the OP LRMs - radar depr helps a little, but now with the fall damage it is really horrible to play, especially rocky maps like terra therma

Grendel408, on 15 July 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The fall damage compared between a Light and Medium Mech is disproportionate... haven't tried this patch (at work), but the other day... orange leg, dropped maybe 10-15 meters... leg destroyed. And this is me feathering my JJs and doing all I can do minimize fall damage because Lights Mechs already got paper-thin armor, right? LOL! PGI... investigate plz

as i´ve said, the mechs should be dropped from a altitude of about 70 feet/ 20 meters without taking any damage
thats a fall speed about 65 ft/s, about twice as PGI´ve set and that would be the absolute minimum


Speeds you're going to want to get used to:

• 30ft/s (9.144 m/s) - Minimum speed of all 'Mechs to take fall damage.
  
• 38ft/s (11.582 m/s) - Speed at which fall damage ramps up for Light Mechs.
  
• 35ft/s (10.668 m/s) - Speed at which fall damage ramps up for Medium Mechs.
  
• 35ft/s (10.668 m/s) - Speed at which fall damage ramps up for Heavy Mechs.
  
• 33ft/s (10.058 m/s) - Speed at which fall damage ramps up for Assault Mechs.

Patch Notes - 1.3.302 - 02-Jul-2014

[Lt Badger]

sneeking, on 15 July 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

currently its a tripple threat to legs for lights.
1. people target them for obvious reasons.
2. lrm seems to mostly hit fast moving lights in the legs ( most vollys hit me exclusively in the legs anyway so pinpoint lrm represents no change there )
3. fall damage plus absorb module nerf means self harm to avoid lrm when you try to run ( also causing said lrm to target legs )

spot a theme developing ?

yes its legs legs legs for lights !

you forgot the turrets, they like to attact on legs

Edited by Lt Badger, 15 July 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Void Angel, on 15 July 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm guessing there's a reason that the Light Mech queue is often down at 12% during my playing hours - and it's not just that everyone loves their Mad Cats and Daishis. =)

That's exactly what it is. Those Daishis can one-shot lights. As long as dual pinpoint PPC/Gauss remains a thing, lights and mediums are an endangered species.

[Lt Badger]

Rebas Kradd, on 15 July 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

That's exactly what it is. Those Daishis can one-shot lights. As long as dual pinpoint PPC/Gauss remains a thing, lights and mediums are an endangered species.

i agree

[HimseIf]

Rebas Kradd, on 15 July 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

That's exactly what it is. Those Daishis can one-shot lights. As long as dual pinpoint PPC/Gauss remains a thing, lights and mediums are an endangered species.

Was there a time when the weapons took longer to converge? i seem to remember seeing that. Maybe they removed it to make the game run smoother or improve hitreg' or something.

[DeathlyEyes]

Rebas Kradd, on 15 July 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

That's exactly what it is. Those Daishis can one-shot lights. As long as dual pinpoint PPC/Gauss remains a thing, lights and mediums are an endangered species.

Armor buff fixes this problem without having to do random damage convergence. It will have the same effect as consistent convergence as well.

[Void Angel]

If you buff armor, all you're doing is nerfing weapons by the same proportion. It won't really solve anything other than making time to kill longer - the disproportional advantage of pinpoint weapons will remain.

sneeking, on 15 July 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

currently its a tripple threat to legs for lights.
1. people target them for obvious reasons.
2. lrm seems to mostly hit fast moving lights in the legs ( most vollys hit me exclusively in the legs anyway so pinpoint lrm represents no change there )
3. fall damage plus absorb module nerf means self harm to avoid lrm when you try to run ( also causing said lrm to target legs )

spot a theme developing ?

yes its legs legs legs for lights !

Missiles have been hitting legs with splash damage as they hit the ground behind the running light - that particular issue should be much-reduced now that missiles no longer deal splash damage.

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

im too busy dying from the recently buffed and massively overpowered LRMs to notice whats happening to the legs

but youd think the light mechs lower mass would be easier on their nimble legs than all the fat paperweight gunboats

[Void Angel]

Or, you are a rational human being willing to adjust your behavior based on continuing evaluation, rather than simply turning off your brain once you've formed an opinion. =)

[Solahma]

Veranova, on 15 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

It's coming next patch

Russ replied to me on Twitter earlier.
Soon^TM

two more weeks of this crap... guess my locust and raven are staying in the hangar for a bit...

[RockmachinE]

This needs addressing, the restrictions mainly affect lights and hinder their main asset which is speed. All this did was make lights much less useful.

[Miles McQuiston]

The overwhelming issue is that it makes less and less sense to play a light or medium mech as each patch comes along. I was hoping that 3/3/3/3 would help. Nope matchmaker just ignores it still 70-75% heavies and assaults. Speed and maneuverability is your biggest asset, hello fall damage to cripple your legs... a component everyone is already shooting at anyhow. Can you still do well in a medium....certainly, but there is no reason to pilot one considering there are heavies nearly just as fast that can pretty much double your firepower. Hell why don't we just all pilot Timberwolves/MadCats. 80+ KPH, alphastrike better than most innersphere 100 ton mechs, and just as durable for the most part.

Assaults and Heavies should be far more powerful than a light or medium, nobody argues with that. However currently the game balance is not setup to encourage the play of mediums and lights. I would like to see a opt-in for players to only get 3/3/3/3 matches. I don't care about wait time I am just tired of seeing the 5th heavy and 4th assault come rounding the bend.

If you want better games, closer matches, and greater player enjoyment reduce the number of heavies and assaults in a match to 3 and 3. Arbitrarily giving fall damage and reducing jump jets effectiveness to try and curb the jump snipe meta is a waste of time. Limit the number of mechs in a match that can bring a 30+ pinpoint alpha and all these changes could have been avoided. So much less time wasted coding things to try and bring balance.

Rollback your changes to fall damage and JJ and just make the matchmaker work. The guy who want to pilot his Direwolf, Atlas, Highlander, or Warhawk every game will just have to wait, or maybe take something else in his inventory. Same goes for the Jagers, Cataphracts, Timberwolves, etc. I like to pilot a heavy just as much as the next guy, but right now the game has the wrong feel.

Hell fix all the meta. Maybe if there isn't 3 Stalkers raining LRMs everyone will stop bitching about LRMs being OP. Maybe if there is not 3 Timberwolves raining LRMs everyone will quit bitching about hit detections and complaining to get the hitboxes on there gigantic mechs reduced down to a size that makes them invincible.

I am sure it easy to comile metrics on mech performance on the development end. Post the numbers. I would like to see aggregate average damage numbers by mech variant. That way when I see a thread about the Timberwolves side torsos being to easy to hit I can refer them to the numbers and say take a look and quit your complaining.

[Desintegrator]

Its really senseless to play lights now !
Evem from small drops you get continuously damage to your legs and the first shot from the enemy blows the legs away.

Therefore I see a lot of Assault Mechs now - nearly 5 on one team in every game I play now.
But it was intended the the fall damage should hurt heavier mechs more than light mechs.

Thats definitely not the case.
Just play a Light - and then play an Assault.
You will notice the difference.

[Bigbacon]

throw in the clrms doing damage under 180m and now lights also have that to contend with, you can just get in their faces anymore like IS LRM boats and even though the damage is on a scale, even that lowish damage from say a CLRM20 is painful to us.

I di agree lights are getting worse and harder to use with each patch recently. I have been pretty much not using my so much anymore, which is sad because I like them so much more than others, but it is extremely hard to have a decent round anymore.

Edited by Bigbacon, 16 July 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[L A V A]

Every time PGI "fixes" something, lights get punished.

After playing over 9,000 games, my interest has hit an all time low. I'm down to about 10 games a week.

One more nerf to lights to "solve" heavy/assault mech problems could very well be the end for me.