174 replies to this topic

[DeathlyEyes]

VXJaeger, on 18 July 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Poptarter's tears are sweeter than honey

You should look at my response. Poptarts are actually unaffected and you are out of touch with the state of the game.

Also just realized I will never run my Victor 9k anymore. There's no reason to run it anymore the jump jet height from the 2 extra jump jets is no longer justifiable.

[Thunder Child]

Please, for the Love of this Game, revert the Jumpjet heat. It has no effect on Jumpsnipers Whatsoever, but Kills any viability on Jump Brawlers. You're better off devoting the JJ tonnage and space to a bigger engine or extra heatsinks. And give us some altitude too. My Highlander can barely get off the ground. Which, considering they were notorious for the Highlander Burial, makes that a laughing stock.

For the Record, my 733C has 3 SRM 6s, an AC/20, and two medium Lasers. Before the Mobility Nerf, it was a good Brawler. Now, it is a terrible build, and jump sniping (a tactic I find deplorable in anything associated with Battletech) is the only thing it's good for.

Edited by Thunder Child, 19 July 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

Perhaps its most useful asset were the three Hildco jump jets giving it a jumping range of 90 meters. The heaviest 'Mech design to feature jump jets at the time, their original task was to allow the Highlander the ability to jump over inconvenient obstacles such as buildings and outpace other 'Mechs with a faster ground speed

90 meters, WITH 3 JETS. the 733C can carry 4, and ours can't even get off the ground now.

Highlander > HeelDragger
Highlander burial > can't lift the shovel.

Just loaded up my Highlander, and.... yeah.. what a ******* joke.

Edited by Mister D, 19 July 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[D A T A]

actually i see no heat when using jj

by the way, you nerfed jj too much.

also, fal damage should be delievered at 60 or more feet per second, not 30

[Kamikaze uy]

JJ nerfed too much! I can barely move on my SH with 3 JJ, u r killing jj for browling. or even movement in/out of engagements.
Why do u keep messing up? Fall damage on lights its terrible, I keep getting damage just for running on to things or even loosing both legs when getting stuck with another mech!

plz fix.

[Ansgar Odinson]

I am not a fan of the JJ changes. I am not a poptarter but I think 4 JJ should be sufficient to lift a timber wolf off the ground and give it some ability to maneuver. I struggle to get on top of even the smallest buildings in this game and that should not be the case. I haven't even tried to see what it is like in a light now. I know that they were trying to make the machines feel more massive but this is not the right way to do it. If they realy want these machines to feel more massive they need to change ground textures so that they look more like an areal view instead of just like I am looking down. There needs to be almost a dizzying effect when looking down considering how high up you supposedly are and how big your mech is compared to you. The pilot doesn't feel much smaller than the mech when you are in the cockpit. That is the issue, not the jump jets. As far as nerfing pop tarting goes they DO need to make it harder while not eliminating it from the game, any time one strategy becomes the only strategy that limits the game and makes it no fun.

I personally would like to see jump jets be more jumpy and less blimpy. They should rocket you forward in an arc with a lot more thrust and a lot less fuel. I think you should almost charge up your jump like we do for gauss then release (the longer we hold the less fuel we conserve). Then our mech would crouch briefly and rocket up, whatever fuel we conserved is now usable to feather the landing. If you are trying to get on top of a building you may use all your fuel in one blast, if you were just trying to clear a mech you may only use half. Anyway that's my two cents

Edited by Ansgar Odinson, 19 July 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Summon3r]

i am a poptart at heart and while this JJ change has not really affected my ability to do so it certainly has killed some mechs like the Summoner's maneuveribility. somethin needs to change here whether its mech bonus's/quirks i dont know. but slowly moving off the ground 5 JJ like your in a hot air balloon certainly cant be the intention here? especially for mechs that since the dawn of BT have used mobility to survive.

[Erdbeermarmeladentoastbrot]

Somehow you see it on the battlefield already ^^. Don´t know if its only me, but it seems as if ppl don´t use JJ anymore.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Erdbeermarmeladentoastbrot, on 20 July 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Somehow you see it on the battlefield already ^^. Don´t know if its only me, but it seems as if ppl don´t use JJ anymore.

Wonder why.

[chrx]

It seems that nobody is happy with the current JJs.

Assume a mech that has 5 JJ as stock. Having 5 JJ should make it perform as it was before the patch: if you invest so much you should also get plenty in return. Having only one JJ should be as it is now. Jump performance should increase linearly from one to five, both in jump height and initial lift.

For highlander that was nerfed especially bad, even one JJ should be more useful than now. With the stock 3 JJ it should have the same performance as pre-patch, so that it would be able to do its trademark maneuvers.

[Seth Kalasa]

Greetings, PGI!
If you want to get rid of jump snipers, make jump jets as they have to be in tabletob game.
Classic jumpjets create forward vector of thrust and give acceleration to mech.
If you do so, it will make game completely different and more fun.
At the moment JJ are just useless for chassies heavier than "Medium".
(Sorry for my English, it's not my native language)

[Shuruga]

Here are my 2 cents to the topic of the most recent JJ patch and also JJs in general.

Neutral opinion: Heat scaling.
Heat scaling is acceptable for me, as I understand this equipment is expected to generate heat. It does not affect maneuvering, while it slows down cool-down a bit. It may be a nuisance for flying laser batteries, such as the spider and/or firestarters, but is still in an acceptable range. It does not hurt gameplay significantly and is only a small penalty.

Neutral opinion: Downward thrust maneuvering (general observation).
Physics engine seems off here, when having an initial downward movement before applying JJs. E.g. when walking down a ledge, I cannot (over-)compensate the fall significantly by applying JJs. I continue down, although the fall is slowed, nevertheless I should still be able to generate a positive lift, based on the overall length of JJ burn.

Bad opinion: Damage scaling of fall damage (previous patch)
Damage could be increased from the original state but reduced from the current state. Or a different physics model applied. I feel the lights are now affected quite significantly. While testing, I managed to crit my legs with just a few full height jumps. I don't know if this was corrected with this patch.

Very bad opinion: Upward Thrust (JJ height) and/or Jump Jet Distance. My Timberwolf and Summoner now feel completely castrated. Their previous agility is gone. I would love to see the option of having removable JJs on the Clan mechs because on these Heavies, the JJs are now dead weight and would better be replaced with Ammo.
Similar opinion for the Griffin and Shadow Hawk - These mech designs live by not having to brawl in front of a heavy or Assault as they don't the armor for it. Now, JJs are only left for maneuvering small heights, but not really as a good combat tool anymore.

In my conclusion, this JJ patch has effectively removed a feature / playability / fun from the game. As a player, I would care nothing about being harassed by flying lights, when playing an assault mech, or the poptarting (which has not been affected anyway). This is more a question of personal game preparation, good tactics and team play, i.e. when you encounter such "overpowered" (not, really) mechs, that you need to coordinate your strategy, which is what this game should be about.

Here's my plea to Developers:
Bring JJs back to the previous agility, when having the max number of JJs equipped.

General feedback:
Don't remove (or significantly alter) a feature, after it has already been implemented. It always feels like having made a bad purchase and this always goes back to the sales person who advertised it "bling bling" first. In a beta, this is OK.
Don't focus on equalizing all those nooks and crannies where some mechs (or weapon systems) may have a little advantage over the other. If you follow down that road, we will all end up with mediocre mechs, that all play similarly and have no unique selling point anymore. Leave some niches. It's these differences that make that game interesting.

The above should be taken as constructive feedback and not in any way as criticism. There have been good changes too.

Kind regards
Shuruga

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

After the JJ patch my Summoner can't even jump up to the Sigma spawn point on River City. The JJ are simply not worth taking but I can't remove them either.

I appreciate the intention, but the current patch has really messed up the use of JJ for mobility.

Please try again with something a bit more considered. Maybe get one of your other staff to have a go rather than Paul?

[HighTest]

I don't want to be a negative Nancy here, and I'll probably get flamed to death, but...

Perhaps, ONE DAY, the devs might learn that tweaking balance over and over and over does not lead to an increase in customer satisfaction, unless it addresses a known issue that i) most users agree on, and ii) that there is some consensus in how to fix. Instead, they just end up making different parts of their customer base angry with them, trading one happy or angry group for another.

What have we learned from history here:
- New maps - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Phoenix mechs - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Clan mechs - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Private lobbies - generally make players happy with more choice/content

You don't often see people complaining when any new content is released. But you do typically see a good riot when the Devs try to balance something, unless they do it exactly right.

Seriously. If the devs had released community warfare on the 15th, how many people here would actually be complaining about still having the old jump-jet mechanics in place right now? (I'm guessing not too many.)

If we could only convince the devs to focus on delivering new content rather than trying to micro-tinker with the game. Sadly the vocal minority seem to QQ things to death and the devs tend to blindly listen. Sigh.

[Summon3r]

HighTest, on 21 July 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

I don't want to be a negative Nancy here, and I'll probably get flamed to death, but...

Perhaps, ONE DAY, the devs might learn that tweaking balance over and over and over does not lead to an increase in customer satisfaction, unless it addresses a known issue that i) most users agree on, and ii) that there is some consensus in how to fix. Instead, they just end up making different parts of their customer base angry with them, trading one happy or angry group for another.

What have we learned from history here:
- New maps - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Phoenix mechs - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Clan mechs - generally make players happy with more choice/content
- Private lobbies - generally make players happy with more choice/content

You don't often see people complaining when any new content is released. But you do typically see a good riot when the Devs try to balance something, unless they do it exactly right.

Seriously. If the devs had released community warfare on the 15th, how many people here would actually be complaining about still having the old jump-jet mechanics in place right now? (I'm guessing not too many.)

If we could only convince the devs to focus on delivering new content rather than trying to micro-tinker with the game. Sadly the vocal minority seem to QQ things to death and the devs tend to blindly listen. Sigh.

well said!..... one would think that the "devs" would learn the balancing DOES NOT mean an extreme change in one direction or the other, seriously start in small increments and go from there.

[Fastwind]

Larcen Dredi, on 15 July 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I own a couple Hero mechs like the Jester and Huggin that have a low maximum JJ count and there isn't squat I can do about that. During the patch testing, I got on and encountered this "scaling" to thrust and said hey guys this is gonna nerf the crap out of mechs with low JJ count. At first they said I was dreaming but later I got told the implementation was a mistake, and the numbers were still being played with.

Well damn... They are pretty damn close to what I experienced in testing, and honestly, it feels like a big F U from the devs.

These mechs were designed with a low JJ count, and cost cash to acquire. So it hardly seems right to make that part of their design useless. The Jester on a full burn doesn't have to worry about fall damage, because it doesn't actually leave the ground, it just glows and skids around on its toes. I seriously get maybe a few feet off the ground. I used to be able to clear a mech, or a low building which was a life saver in urban settings. Now the thing is basically good for dusting the ground, or making a sharp turn, and honestly with a pults twist... who needs that?

The Huggin, jeez... it's only saving grace was JJ's and MG's. You just clipped it's wings. It went from Raven to Road Runner. It still gets off the ground at least, but it does it so damn slow, that you get torn to pieces trying to scramble your way up. Forget it. Huggin JJ's are now mostly for walking off cliffs. Before I would be able to just bounce around back and forth right on top of people and just spray them in the face with MG's. Pretty much annoy the crap out of them, streak, SRM 6, I mean the damn thing is stock.

If you perhaps looked at your nerf as ratio of JJ's to maximum available, then stiffen the heat penalty, cause honestly I didn't notice the heat, but again, I'm not a pop tarter. I mean I would imagine this would make sense right? If you have the potential to mount 4 JJ's, but only put 2 you would have 50% lift capacity, and maybe even 50% burn duration. You put only 1, and you get 25% of each... 3 and you have 75% 4 of 4 nets you 100% of the mechs maximum Jump capacity whatever that works out to, for simplicity say 40 meters.

Now keep in mind that scale isn't 40, 30, 20, 10. Because you lost both thrust and duration with each missing JJ.

At least this way, you nerf people who drop JJ's intentionally, and not those low JJ caps. Mechs that only have 3 JJ's or so seem to be hit pretty hard while those with 4 feel fine. My 80 Ton Victor outjumps my shadowhawk and that just doesn't feel right to me...

^^ THIS

Edited by Fastwind, 21 July 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Vanguard319]

JJs were never the problem, Pilots having perfect pinpoint aim no matter what action they are perfoming is the culprit. I actually posted a pretty long idea for a fix. It can be found here:
http://mwomercs.com/...15#entry3576415

[Ashnod]

Please revert the jump jet nerf .

Currently they are junk..

Edited by Ashnod, 22 July 2014 - 12:56 AM.

[Bront]

Jumpjets are now really, really bad.

1 Jumpjet isn't enough thrust to slow down falling. 2 JJs barely get you off the ground, and even max JJs won't let you clear obsticles like they should (like other mechs).

At least now every mech feels like a Highlander used to with Jump Jets.

Needs to change, ASAP.

[Styxx42]

JTSR, on 19 July 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

when are you going to remove the restriction on removing the jumpjets from the Summoner?

Totally agree with that post above.

JJ are no more equal to your walk speed in range (forward movement or uppwards). They are nothing close to what the game is or was.
I slipped off a cliff edge and didn't have enough thrust in my Summoner to get back on, and I was only walking backwards Slowly. It is (Expletive )how under-powered they are. How about you remove the JUMPJETS and call them directional thrusters Perhaps put MINI in that description. Because IMO that is all they are right now.
And for the LOVE OF GOD make them so you can get forward moment out of them. This crap of going up a hill and only jumping straight up and about a 1% forward vector is aggravating. Are there no Fins in this high tech universe?


You sell us mechs with JJ and then nerf them(change them if you don't agree) and we are stuck with them.
That is BAD. I bought the Summoner PACK and now I am stuck with them. I wanted the Summoner I had and played and loved. Not this totally different thing you now gave me.
At the very least you should give us the ability to remove them or best give me back my 90 dollars as a store credit so I can reinvest based on your "CHANGES" I am not putting one more dine in this game until you stabilize this game.



Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Forcing us to keep something we don't want after you make DRASTIC changes.

And NO I am not a pop tart but GET OVER IT, just shoot them when they jump. Someone Tags them or Narcs them and all they are doing is giving you line of sight to them. Add to that 3.5 second target delay and they are free damage.


I have no clue why the DEV's nerfed Jump Jets in the first place.
I have a mix of mech both innner spehere and Clan and never felt that jumping mechs had an unfair advantage.
Get High, I love that. I will then Tag you and LRM the Crap out of you. (narc needs work to be useful in the game.)

As for Heat, it does not bother me either way. I just manage my heat as normal and have not seen a real difference in my game play.

At least this change is closer to cannon Battle Tech..