174 replies to this topic

[Wrayeth]

I can't tell you how much I hate the new jump jet changes. My HGN (with max jets) takes so long to jump over obstacles (assuming it can even clear them at all, which is very dubious now) that it's actually faster to go around much of the time.

The entire point of jump jets on a mech is to give maneuvering options that are unavailable through walking. Now, however, the Highlander can barely jump over a pebble.

I want to be able to jump over buildings for a tactical advantage on urban maps, but that's not possible. Fix this, please PGI. I will not be playing your game at all until this is resolved (even though the HGN is not my primary mech; the Atlas is).

EDIT: Suggestion for fix. Increase jump distance and height, but also massively increase thrust. The increased thrust will mean you spend less time in the air, so less chance to poptart and more ability to maneuver. Basically, make it work like you're actually jumping instead of blasting off, for the most part.

Edited by Wrayeth, 15 July 2014 - 11:18 PM.

[Navid A1]

Consider this: my nova has FIVE LOCKED JJs. Before this patch it felt very right (about the performance you expect from 5 JJs)...

with this patch... i dont have JJs at all... i have some nozzles f*rting blue flames on my back... its just not there... can't even jump over small humps without being stalled....

This is beyond belief... the nerf supposed to affect bunny humping assaults... not a medium mech with locked space and tonnage.!

[Panzerbjorn]

I've spent much of the night testing the JJ changes. Nothing worth noting, really, aside from some mechs can jump a little higher while many other can't jump as high as before now.

The new heat is negligible (unless you're trying to cool down while jumping).

A single JJ still allows you to: climb hills that would be otherwise impossible; glitch out your position by feathering 4 times per second making you harder to hit due to HSR/rubber-banding.

Pop-tarting is still a 100% valid strategy that hasn't been nerfed in the least (which is fine, it's a valid strategy).

Nothing to see here, carry on!

Navid A1, on 15 July 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Consider this: my nova has FIVE LOCKED JJs. Before this patch it felt very right (about the performance you expect from 5 JJs)...
with this patch... i dont have JJs at all... i have some nozzles f*rting blue flames on my back... its just not there... can't even jump over small humps without being stalled....

Wrong. The Nova used to only be able to jump 26.3 meters, it can now jump 31.6 meters. I can jump my Nova up into places it couldn't get to before (ahhh River City citadel is so much easier to get on top of now, thanks PGI!)

[Habu55]

OK.... Since this new patch, now the JJ's on all my mechs have a lot less lift. Please fix this issue ASAP.

[Kmieciu]

Panzerbjorn, on 15 July 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Wrong. The Nova used to only be able to jump 26.3 meters, it can now jump 31.6 meters. I can jump my Nova up into places it couldn't get to before (ahhh River City citadel is so much easier to get on top of now, thanks PGI!)

We don't know how exactly the jumpjet equasion changed, but JUMP JETS - CLASS IV were buffed from 39.3 to 45 thrust value.

Here are the full changes:

JUMP JETS - CLASS I 62->33 Massive nerf for the Highlander
JUMP JETS - CLASS II 60,71->68 Victor just got buffed!
JUMP JETS - CLASS III 56,6->45 Bye,bye CTF-3D and TBR-S. So long Summoner!
JUMP JETS - CLASS IV 39,3->45 Shadowhawk is happy
JUMP JETS - CLASS V 25->37 More thrust for lights

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 July 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[Spheroid]

There is no "buff" those numbers are bogus. My max JJ Jenner doesn't get any more air time or height. My six jet Griffin doesn't feel better.

Everything seems much, much worse. This is a terrible patch.

[John80sk]

The Highlander's jump capability is now doubly as laughable. I know that thing was the great meta-terror of the seas before, but it's been nerfed to the point of uselessness. Rarely ever see one that isn't a missile boat anymore, and even those are rare.

Seen varying results with different mechs. Seems to have broken 1JJ builds pretty well, which is a good thing. On the other hand it seems to have hurt mechs that have invested 5-10 tons in JJ which I don't believe was the intended result.

I think 4-5JJ should have been he "break even" point for this change. By this I mean that 4JJ should be equally as effective as 4JJ were before with everything below that being less effective than it previously was.

As far as JJ heat goes I haven't really decided if I think this is a positive change or not. Poptarts are definately running a good deal hotter now, which I think is a good thing. Caused equally negative effects to everything with jumpjets that wasn't a poptart though, so I doubt it will do anything to shift the meta.

[Storyteller]

Yep. the Summoner is pretty worthless now, because he has to take 5 tons for JJs and can't even jump over lower hills now. A Timber Wolf without JJs is even more superior than before the patch.

PGI, please, please undo the JJs thrust changes, you introduced in yesterdays patch!

[Valkener]

After some JJ tests i can say, that JJ now suck completely. Seriously PGI, do you test your changes before patchday?!

[kapusta11]

All your graphs and stuff is garbage, height is irrelevant, heat is irrelevant, leg damage is irrelevant, torso twist rates are irrelevant. Continue to implement this meaningless changes and you will achieve nothing.

JJs are a means of defence, they are evolution of walking around obstacles and walls, the former provide huge vertical speed via thrust which wasn't reduced enough for meta mechs (Victors, Chataphracts, but not Highlanders), it's still quite safe to jump without fearing of return fire because of low exposure time; the latter provide low horizontal speed via accel/deccel ratings thus have high exposure.

Pre (this) patch Highlander was an exaple of how you need treat jump capable mechs (heavies and assaults). Higlander had low thrust high burn duration JJs, the rest had high thrust low duration, recent patch turned Highlander into a **** but the rest remained largely unaffected.

What I propose:

• Revert current patch changes, remove leg damage, heat and torso twist nerfs.
  
• Change jump capable heavies and assaults to work as Highlander. Cataphracts and Victors should have slightly higher thrust but the you must follow the general rule - low thrust, high burn duration.
  
• Implement EXPONENTIAL trust incresae depending on how many JJs you have. thus 1JJ provide 1 unit of thrust, 2JJs - 3 units, 3JJs - 5, 4JJ - 8, etc.

Try it at least on your test servers, you'll see I'm right.

Edited by kapusta11, 16 July 2014 - 01:17 AM.

[Better Call Saul]

This "balancing" has made medium mechs slow and cumbersome like a heavy/assault.

[Sjef]

Cabal LV426, on 15 July 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Dear Developers, instead of do difference between 1 and max heatsinks you also lowered vertical boost by 25% and did jumpjets (JJ) not useful to jump over surface of maps. Summoner, which have 5 JJ of III class (5 t, fixed) now can't jump on low hills, houses, towers, buildings. It's lost half of it's mobile functions. At the same time it lose 5 critical slots and 5 tons for new nerfed JJ, which already can’t effort moving advantage to him.

I think you need backward the vertical boost and see how heat cooling effect on jump snipers.
If it not have result do JJ fixed on maximum quantity. For example: fix JJ for Victor on 5. So, it lose 5 tons and 5 critical slots. In result it will have lower heat dissipation, lower ammo. More balanced. Or do the choice, 0 JJ or Max. This resolve the problem.

haha nice made and 100% true

Edited by Sjef, 16 July 2014 - 01:37 AM.

[Sjef]

Is there someone that can hit the guy that does the Jumpjets in his face a few time so do it now!!! you have permission from all the MW online players!!!

But don't hurt animals.

[trollgunner]

The point of jump jets in battletech was less to jump on things, and more to jump across them. In the game, you only went up 1 hex at the beginning, and had to specify when you wanted to go up another. Granted, in the board game, you could walk through buildings and such.

[Cyborne Elemental]

http://mwomercs.com/...ert-jj-changes/

Starting a Petition thread guys, voice your opinions there as well.

[SirSlaughter]

Jump my A$$ now! mwuaahahahah

Well... a more constructive feedback... The shadow works more or less like before but with 3-4 jj. I'm able to jump over the ridges in canyon network. My cataphract 3D requires 4 now.

I think it was a necessary change:

If you want to jump you HAVE TO sacrifice tonnage

What's wrong with whis?

[QuimMorius]

I'm fine by nerfing poptarting but with other methods.

Previously Jump Jets gave us an extra dimension in the game as we were fighting pilots high and low and they were perfect to get around rough terrain. You could also set up on buildings to scout and gather intel, but not any more. Did some runs in Jenner, Shadowhawk, Griffin, Cataphract, Victor and Highlanders and it's barely usable to get over small pebbles on the ground. Medium mechs have huge issues getting around the Canyon map.

I miss the mobility but yet the heavy stompy feel of the mechs.

This is just wrong! Hovering I can do in my spare time in air balloons.

[Koniks]

Carrioncrows, on 15 July 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

300-400% more thrust

but only 1/3rd or a 1/4th of the duration.

So they become more like "JUMP' jets instead of good year blimps.

Jump sniping would be extremely difficult and those people that use jumpjets to navigate and for mobility would be rewarded.

I think the optimal solution is a mix of what they did and what you suggest. It was a good idea to reduce the initial lift value. That fixed the problem of 1 JJ being a more efficient use of tonnage than a full complement.

The new Boost_Z values are flawed, though. They need to rescale them so that a full complement of JJs provides at least as much maximum height and horizontal distance as it did pre-patch. I'm currently ambivalent about whether that means a big increase in thrust and a big decrease in maximum duration. If we're sticking to the Table Top rules, it should be 3 m/s per jump jet horizontally and .6 m/s vertically per jump jet.

Lights seem to have come out OK, so that should be the basis for the model. Jump Jet mediums have had their advantage completely removed. The Nova has 5 JJ and barely goes anywhere vertically. Most of the Shadow Hawks are limited to 3, which is barely better than taking 1 JJ pre-patch. And it's not like the Shadow Hawks were flying all over the place.

At full throttle, the Summoner can make a 125m horizontal leap across the narrowest part of Canyon Network from the outside of D4 in to Theta. It'll barely have enough fuel to feather the landing, so good luck with that. And really, it should have at least 25m more of horizontal distance. 5 jets is barely sufficient to get it from the base of a canyon to the plateau. But you have to lift pretty much straight up--there needs to be a better balance between horizontal and vertical boost.

Shadow Hawks do get about the same 125m horizontal distance with 3 jump jets as Summoners do with 5. This is actually better than table top.

Edited by Mizeur, 16 July 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[Charles Seneca]

I don't post often on these fourms because experience has taught me that the devs don't listen to the community, or maybe they listen but just ignore all the good suggestions...

Anyway, the JJ change is an EPIC FAIL. Just needed to get that off my chest.

Was the community complaining about JJ? No, not really - but the devs changed them anyway. Below is the number one rule in life for those who don't know it:

1. IF IT AINT BLOODY BROKEN DON'T FIX IT!

Now poptarting, which annoys many people for numerous reasons, has been declared by the devs as "... a valid, tactical means of play. The way we want to address it is from a cost per performance view, not eliminate it."

So they've addressed it by breaking something else. Way to go! All they had to do is add a "safetly feature" to the onboard computer which prevents a mech from shooting any weapon which would (should) cause recoil when the mech is in the air. That would be pretty much everything except lasers and the rationale behind such a function should be pretty obvious.

It's a simple solution which still allows people to pop-tart, albeit with lasers, which is why it will never happen. Instead JJ have been nerfed in a ridiculous fashion and I can only assume no acutal game-play testing, involving the community, took place either. Sad.

I'm just waiting for some kind of ghost-jump-jet implementation to "fix" things now. Maybe the devs will add "ghost thrust" to mechs which can't jump from the floor to the plateau in Canyon Valley - despite having maximum JJ attached.

Unbelievable.

[Chimperator]

hmm i got so many useless mechs in my mechbay now.... can i get my money back for my DragonSlayer, Timberwolf, Summoner? and the mobilty of my nova is cribbeld too.... and why my shadowhawks are heavy mechs now and where is the extra tonnage for them ? Oo